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Before you dismiss this as a troll post, hear me out:
Widow mine. 75 minerals, 25 gas.
1 mine (75/25), 160 damage, kills:
Infinity clumped probes (50)
Zealot (100)
Stalker (125/50)
Sentry (50/100)
High Templar (50/150)
Dark Tempalar (125/125)
Oracle (150/150)
Observer (25/75)
2 mines (150/50), 320 damage, kill:
Infinity clumped HT or Sentries
Mothership Core (100/100)
Phoenix (150/100)
Warp Prism (200)
Void Ray (250/150)
3 mines (225/75), 480 damage, kill:
Archon (100/300)
Immortal (250/100)
Colossus (300/200)
Tempest (300/200)
Carrier (350/250 + interceptors)
5 mines (375, 125), 800 damage, kill:
Mothership (400/400)
This unit literally kills every single Protoss unit in the game resource and supply efficiently (assuming gas is more important than minerals when it's close).
It's invisible. You can make two at once.
So...
Why not just go mass mines with some Vikings/Ravens to deny observers into Mech? Add on Thors for some base killing damage.
DISCUSS!
EDIT - I don't mean #YOLOSWAG monobattle mine troll build. I just mean make a high ammount of mines, burrow them around the map, and constantly build PFs everywhere while denying vision with Raven/Viking. Eventually get to a big Mine/Raven/Thor army.
Obviously not a high level strategy, but it should work well into Masters. I have a buddy doing this with nearly 80% win rate since HotS came out. He plays random and his TvP is by far his strongest matchup.
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Storm, Hallucinations, half the protoss arsenal outranges is?
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Haha, at the beginning of HotS I used this as a gimmicky, off-the-wall build.
I would use mines to delay Protoss advancements until they got obs, and then I would save up scans and use vikings to pick off observers while forcing them to either run blindly into my mine field or disengage. Mixing in some cloakshees makes it even better. I actually recall winning a large amount of games, oftentimes securing a fifth base and then transitioning to skyterran.
It actually worked against Zerg, as well - I would go mass viking for overlord kills, then when they would go muta/hydra/whatever, I would just lead their army into my mine field of death :D
Good times.... but seriously, I don't think it works against anyone half decent, but you can get some funny wins out of it in anything low masters and below (though with MMR decay, you can never know these days :p )
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If we're going to troll anyways;
Interceptor, 25 mineral, rebuild rate of 8s (less with chrono) vs 40 of mine.
1 carrier beats like 10 mines. ez
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theres a reason why hellion marauder didnt work in WoL in TvP.
In theory, hellions would wreck zealots while the marauders would demolish just about everything else. But ingame, it just got destroyed so hard because of upgrade issues and varying speeds between the hellion and marauder when kiting.
As for this, widow mines don't work in TvP because they get outranged stalkers and colossus to the point where if the terran player masses them in deathball engagements. They become a huge waste of resource
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Don't think this thread complies with the Strategy Forum guidelines (no [G] or [D] tag, nicely structured layout or replays) but anyway...
Many Protoss units outrange the mines, Blink Stalkers especially work very well and you'll have no army to speak of.
Protoss can just spam units at you to absorb mine shots and then kill you with whatever is left.
You'll also have very little to defend yourself with since Protoss can just run his units away when he seems them burrowing.
Primarily though, most of your mines will die long before they get their shots off, Vikings/Ravens will not be able to protect them from that.
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HAHA.
Okay so I'm not advocating monobattling Widow Mines and just running into a clump of Protoss as some seem to be suggesting.
But given that, splash damage issues aside, Widow Mines can hold their own vs. basically any Protoss unit (keep in mind the mines splash, too), what's to stop a mass mine / Viking / Ghost or Raven / Thor army from being viable?
Since mines are basically guaranteed to trade efficiently with anything they hit, and they are invisible, you can use Raven/Viking to deny vision and then force bad engagements into mine fields. As long as you're making any effort to target his splash damage (Vikings, Seekers, Ghosts)... should work. Add some thors and voila.
I've seen guys get to masters on pure Viking Raven Banshee TvP. At anything below pro level I think this is feasible.
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and if we were the microbot 2000 we could beat infinity banelings with 0 marine loss.
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On November 21 2013 04:44 iaguz wrote:
and if we were the microbot 2000 we could beat infinity banelings with 0 marine loss.
True, but we're not. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe at your level Iaguz people are good enough, but even in Masters I find people have a hard time dealing with Raven/Viking observer denial + Mines or Banshee.
I'm not saying monobattle widow mines because they're imba. I'm saying the borderline abusive vision denial that Viking/Raven provides and the fact that Widow Mines actually trade pretty well with most Protoss units AND are invisible means that the style has to be playable up to a certain point on the ladder.
Maybe not top Aussie GM  but certainly in Plat/Diamond/Masters!
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If you go for mass mines then you rely on the protoss having no detection or kill the observers with vikings. In this scenario you are better off with mass ghost who can even kill the HT's before they storm and you can shoot permanently.
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On November 21 2013 05:01 TrOn_sc2 wrote:
If you go for mass mines then you rely on the protoss having no detection or kill the observers with vikings. In this scenario you are better off with mass ghost who can even kill the HT's before they storm and you can shoot permanently.
Yes, but unlike ghots, Mines are actually cheap, fast to make, and trade resource efficiently. It is impossible for a Zealot to kill a mine, for example. It's a combination of that effectiveness and the vision denial that makes the strateg so good.
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They trade cost effectively but then not every mine will hit and there is always the possibility for friendly fire. It has potential but Protoss certainly has plenty of ways to play that could deal with it.
That said unless your aiming at playing tournaments I think it is worth playing in more creative ways occasionally(maybe even if you are in tournaments), it is more fun than just copying what others have done or playing what is currently considered 'standard'.
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This sounds like something Avilo would do
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Storm rapes it, Colossus rapes it, any form of ranged AOE rapes it, sorry but this idea is horrible and so is this thread. Good luck getting in rage of a Protoss army with any number of colossus, and if you're doing some defensive/contain style, storm will rape the mines, chargelots will make them splash your own shit, etc etc.
Being a pure mech player which loves unorthodox stuff I've fooled around a lot with mines, there's some fun stuff you can do with it and it but its just not reliable.
On November 21 2013 05:30 Whatson wrote:
This sounds like something Avilo would do
No it doesn't because avilo is a safe macro player that hates gimmicks or any kind of risk (which is basically what the strategy suggested by the OP is).
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dark templar cost 25 gas now? dt drops all day baby
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Canada8159 Posts
On November 21 2013 04:05 SC2Toastie wrote:
Storm, Hallucinations, half the protoss arsenal outranges is?
This pretty much sums up why to not get widow mines
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On November 21 2013 05:30 Whatson wrote:
This sounds like something Avilo would do
Avilo does not believe in mines. Shameful.
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Anything that comes from the factory protoss has like 15 different ways of beating it and they do not differ from the regular units they would normally make.
Unfourtunately mass mine just wouldn't work outside of a one-time gimic fight.
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Yes, but unlike ghots, Mines are actually cheap, fast to make, and trade resource efficiently. It is impossible for a Zealot to kill a mine, for example. It's a combination of that effectiveness and the vision denial that makes the strateg so good.
I never tried it, but just by theory it cant be good. There is no way to put real agression onto the protoss you can only harras, which is not enough pressure. Though you may be able to get 30 Mines faster than the same number of ghosts, but the army is still very weak. First you cant kill buildings, not even proxy pylons so toss is will have every expansion that we wants to. Then what are you going to vs Tempest? Only fighting them with vikings is not going to be enough if the toss has HT's. Other than that this mass mine, viking, raven army that you propose is only going to be for one engagement. The next warpin by the protoss is going to kill.
I mean you can try to make it work, but the chance that this will never work in a high-level game is almost 100% in my opinion!
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EPT
