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On December 09 2013 15:27 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 06:45 ffadicted wrote:
Put the twilight somewhere outside your base if you want to commit to all-in, remember he can always scan if his reaper dies without seeing anything (a lot of high level terrans will), or learn some light fake pressure transition out of this.
Because of popularity of blink all-ins, terran will freak out and over-defend if he sees a twilight council tbh This is a powerful enough build that the terran must scout and respond IMMEDIATELY in order to stop. As long as your timing is tight, you don't need to worry about having to try to be tricky. The other part to this build is the fact that you already have 38 probes total and a second nexus, so you can pressure and transition out of it much more reliably than a 1-base blink allin. Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 14:22 KingofGods wrote:
Anybody else read the title "bs" as "bull s***" ? That's the idea  . Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 12:14 9-BiT wrote:
This might prompt me to switch to protoss. I think I have lost all my dignity. GOGOGOGO!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414359http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430061http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=394578
I thought most people in this thread, including you were saying that this build basically is good because of its trickery element, but you say here that it's strong enough to not worry about being tricky?
Just trying to confirm that we really need to deny a scout or not..thanks very much!
PS - im not trying to get all semantic or anything, just want to make sure i really understand cause this build/ writeup is really good and I have had a lot of success with it already on ladder and vs my terran friend… so i just want to understand. It just seemed to me that you said it was strong because of how normal it seemed, but that if they scout it they still need to respond immediately/perfectly to stop it?
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On January 06 2014 16:05 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 15:27 SC2John wrote:On December 06 2013 06:45 ffadicted wrote:
Put the twilight somewhere outside your base if you want to commit to all-in, remember he can always scan if his reaper dies without seeing anything (a lot of high level terrans will), or learn some light fake pressure transition out of this.
Because of popularity of blink all-ins, terran will freak out and over-defend if he sees a twilight council tbh This is a powerful enough build that the terran must scout and respond IMMEDIATELY in order to stop. As long as your timing is tight, you don't need to worry about having to try to be tricky. The other part to this build is the fact that you already have 38 probes total and a second nexus, so you can pressure and transition out of it much more reliably than a 1-base blink allin. On December 06 2013 14:22 KingofGods wrote:
Anybody else read the title "bs" as "bull s***" ? That's the idea . On December 09 2013 12:14 9-BiT wrote:
This might prompt me to switch to protoss. I think I have lost all my dignity. GOGOGOGO!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414359http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430061http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=394578 I thought most people in this thread, including you were saying that this build basically is good because of its trickery element, but you say here that it's strong enough to not worry about being tricky? Just trying to confirm that we really need to deny a scout or not..thanks very much! PS - im not trying to get all semantic or anything, just want to make sure i really understand cause this build/ writeup is really good and I have had a lot of success with it already on ladder and vs my terran friend… so i just want to understand. It just seemed to me that you said it was strong because of how normal it seemed, but that if they scout it they still need to respond immediately/perfectly to stop it?
Terrans can't be your friends!
Jokes aside, this build is solid enough to transform it into your usual Blink All-in build if you wish to do so. The one base version is too risky and works only in some situations where the Terran player does not scout properly and does not erect adequate defense against the attack. I prefer economical builds such as this where you can get ahead with a snipe here and there and then macro up with the advantage that you gained.
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United States4883 Posts
On January 06 2014 16:05 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 15:27 SC2John wrote:On December 06 2013 06:45 ffadicted wrote:
Put the twilight somewhere outside your base if you want to commit to all-in, remember he can always scan if his reaper dies without seeing anything (a lot of high level terrans will), or learn some light fake pressure transition out of this.
Because of popularity of blink all-ins, terran will freak out and over-defend if he sees a twilight council tbh This is a powerful enough build that the terran must scout and respond IMMEDIATELY in order to stop. As long as your timing is tight, you don't need to worry about having to try to be tricky. The other part to this build is the fact that you already have 38 probes total and a second nexus, so you can pressure and transition out of it much more reliably than a 1-base blink allin. On December 06 2013 14:22 KingofGods wrote:
Anybody else read the title "bs" as "bull s***" ? That's the idea . On December 09 2013 12:14 9-BiT wrote:
This might prompt me to switch to protoss. I think I have lost all my dignity. GOGOGOGO!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414359http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430061http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=394578 I thought most people in this thread, including you were saying that this build basically is good because of its trickery element, but you say here that it's strong enough to not worry about being tricky? Just trying to confirm that we really need to deny a scout or not..thanks very much! PS - im not trying to get all semantic or anything, just want to make sure i really understand cause this build/ writeup is really good and I have had a lot of success with it already on ladder and vs my terran friend… so i just want to understand. It just seemed to me that you said it was strong because of how normal it seemed, but that if they scout it they still need to respond immediately/perfectly to stop it?
The blink all-in is what I would call a very "sharp" play, meaning that usually terrans have a very small window to scout and get the proper defenses up in time to deal with it. Of course, when you deny scouting, you make this window even smaller, so it's always good to try and deny scouting the best that you can.
Right now I'm having a lot of success with a macro build based off of this allin. I just poke with my initial 12 stalkers at 8:30 to see what the terran has: if he isn't prepared for the blink all-in or is caught off guard, I go ahead and finish the allin; if he has scouted properly and gotten the proper defenses up, I'll just poke with the stalkers, kill off some units/SCVs, and macro up behind it. The reason why a macro play works well off the back of this build is that usually terran has to overreact to deal with any kind of dedicated all-in, especially in the current map pool (which favors blink). In these cases, the terran usually has to build extra bunkers, start marauder production early, get concussive shells, sometimes even lift the natural CC, etc., etc. The overrreaction is what allows your "economical pressure build" to transition smoothly without straight up dying.
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So what do you do if the Terran builds more than 1 reaper? Should I just abandon the poke and just macro up? I wasn't able to kill off both the reapers, so when I moved out he just sent the reapers in to kill my probes  And then i was behind so I went for it but I was slowed down and bla bla bla I lost because he had too much time to prepare and get more units before I blinked in or ran back to my base. I'm guessing I should've just abandoned it or tried harder to kill the reapers? I'm in gold league btw.
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On November 14 2013 09:16 Rickyvalle21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 06:15 SalvationII wrote:
Haha, nice writing you did here.. :D
The Mainpart of this build is not to win with brute force but with out-mindgaming your opponent and letting him play greedier and unsafer then against a 1-base all in.
You don't expect a Toss to blink all in you when he sees a fast expand.
My version is out of a 17 Nexus, which leads the terran into playing even more greedy, like 2 rax fast starport or even 3 CC.
It hits at the same time with the same amount of stalkers, so I think playing this all in out of a 17 nexus mindfucks an opponent even more.
In the end it's a pretty solid all in for the ladder and even for tournaments.
EU-GM toss's opinion. I used to do this too but only in Wol when nexus first was viable. I would nexus first and follow up with quick blink obs or gateway all in and win the majority of the time. How are you going nexus first in the current map pool though? Even pros rarely nexus first on whirlwind and frost.
Alterzim is a pretty nice map to go nexus first.
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On November 14 2013 10:36 ffadicted wrote:
Have tried this build 3 times:
1. Terran clearly misses what's going on, I just roll him
2. Terran knows what's going on, I try it anyway, do A LOT of damage with good micro and good map for this (star station), he dies to follow up push
3. Terran knows what's going on, I fake the pressure, he invests a ton in defense, meanwhile I had double forge and storm researching, he eventually I guess figures out what's happening and goes for a SCV all in, is met with storm archon chargelot blink stalker nexus cannon and gets absolutely rolled
I'm having fun with this build lol
Your fun is my anger T_T
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United States4883 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:48 Jj_82 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 10:36 ffadicted wrote:
Have tried this build 3 times:
1. Terran clearly misses what's going on, I just roll him
2. Terran knows what's going on, I try it anyway, do A LOT of damage with good micro and good map for this (star station), he dies to follow up push
3. Terran knows what's going on, I fake the pressure, he invests a ton in defense, meanwhile I had double forge and storm researching, he eventually I guess figures out what's happening and goes for a SCV all in, is met with storm archon chargelot blink stalker nexus cannon and gets absolutely rolled
I'm having fun with this build lol Your fun is my anger T_T
Bahahaha, I knew this topic would come back up. Everyone in the world hates me for ruining PvT right now lol.
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So, i've been doing this build, and just have a question about gas timings. I follow what you suggest, and end up with a fair amount of gas banked, until i get about 2 or 3 warp-ins of stalkers out. Is this normal?
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United States4883 Posts
On March 21 2014 08:23 ObiWanPwnobi wrote:
So, i've been doing this build, and just have a question about gas timings. I follow what you suggest, and end up with a fair amount of gas banked, until i get about 2 or 3 warp-ins of stalkers out. Is this normal?
The gas timings in this build are accurate. It should give you enough gas for ~20 stalkers total of continuous warping in before you run out of gas. If you don't want it to be as "all-in" or want to transition sooner, either 1) only build 4 gates total and get your natural gases earlier or 2) Only build 12 stalkers total and then immediately take your natural gases (my preferred method).
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EPT
