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[G] The MAN Train: Immortal/Zealot PvZ All-In

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 20:01:04
May 25 2013 20:03 GMT
#1
Disclaimer: while this guide isn't very serious, this build is actually a very strong push, especially in Bo1 ladder format. It just so happens that i also find this build awesome and fucking hilarious.

Intro

Oh PvZ all-ins, how we love thee. Since, well, forever, Protoss players have had a plethora of strong, annoying and abusive 2 base pushes that caused Z's to ragequit, whine and bm over and over again until it stopped being funny, and let's face it, to this day it's still funny. See my signature.

The famous SoulTrain, or Immortal all-in was the strongest and most popular among these builds, but with HotS and the so very, very sad removal of Ohana from map pools it doesn't see as much use as during the final months of WoL. I personally just LOVE the sound of roaches dieing to Immortal fire and the following ragequits, so i decided to find similar ways to kill Zergs.

Thankfully, Naniwa gave us all the answer during this last Dreamhack, coming up with arguably the manliest build PvZ all-in yet. Cut (almost) every corner imaginable early game, cut out that forcefield micro crap and just do it the MANLY way: kill him with freakin zealots, dudes so manly they can blow tanks up and cut armor open and shit by using blades made with their freaking minds. And Immortals of course, can't forget the Immortals.

[image loading]
Oh Reach. I hope i'm making you proud.


Build Order

Here's the build order. Note that this is pretty risky and map dependant: you want to use this build only on maps with a natural that can be partially walled by two large buildings and an (eventual) extra pylon like on Planet S. Finally, don't bother scouting with this build on a 2 player map; core scout on a 4 player map. Scouting is for pussies anyway, plus you are 2base allining off one gas. So fuck safety (i told you this buid is manly!).
  • 9 Pylon
  • 13 Gate
  • 14 Gas
  • 16 Pylon
  • 18 Core
  • 21 Zealot. Make this in case of an early pool and cancel it right before it completes if no zerglings run for your base
  • 21 Nexus
  • 22 Warpgate
  • 22 Mothership Core
  • 24 Pylon at natural to start your wall off.
  • 27 Robo in the main
  • 27 Forge to start your wall
  • 28 Gateway
  • 28 Zealot
  • 37 Cannon for safety
  • @100% Forge: +1 Weapons
  • @100% Robo: Warp Prism, then 2x Immortals (you don't have the gas to get the immortals faster)
  • As the second immortal is started (around 50 food): 5 extra gates
  • Cut probes at 36
  • Chrono usage: first 5 on the Nexus, rest on the robo.

The cannon at the front is quite useful seeing as you have no (almost) units, and it doesn't really delay or weaken your push so might as well get it; additionally it defends against eventual counters. Note how you are doing all of this off a single gas, which means you can't afford many gas units outside of the msc and immortals for a long time.

As soon as your second immortal finishes pick both up in the warp prism, fully wall your natural and move out with the zealot, warp prism and msc. One nice thing is that it's impossible for the zerg to delay your push, as all your units will be flying at this point.

It's vital to delay scouting, and against both TLO and Leenock Naniwa used a nexus cannon to deny the spotting of the extra gates. If you can, try to build them in a hidden location in your main as usual.

The Push

You should be doing your first round of extra zealots right before 9 minutes and pushing immediately. Your priorities while microing are, in order:
1) Keep your warp prism alive away from queens and spores, it's your only way to reinforce.
2) Land a timewarp or your zealots will just get kited to death.
3) Focus immortals on spines/roaches, don't waste shots on lings.
4) Warp prism micro as necessary.
5) Keep warping in manlots until he dies (you wont because Protoss is bullshit).

[image loading]
We call this "zealoting your opponent". Terrans know what i'm talking about


The difference between this build and it's older brother, the Soultrain, is obviously trading sentries and forcefields for a much faster push. Note that since you won't have any probes with you, it's mandatory to keep your warp prism alive. Other than that it's a fairly straightforward strategy: hit your timing well, warp things in and amove all over him. Happy ManTraining!

Vods and FAQ

1) What if the Zerg is doing all-in X?
Well tough shit you have almost no units. You should treat this situation like you would with FFE: add cannons, stay walled off, defend with nexus cannon. You won't have enough gas to warp in many sentries, so get your wall and cannons up asap.
2) What if the Zerg is teching to whatever?
If he's teching your push should do critical damage, because he won't have the unit count to hold off your attack. Just warp in stalkers to clean up the (eventual) mutas and add a few cannons back home. He won't get swarm hosts in time. If he has a spine wall, just elevator in his main.
3) But Roaches destroy zealots!
Between time warp, immortals and overwhelming numbers, manlots actually kill roaches, which is nice. And very painful when you are on the receiving end of it.
4) What about banelings?
Channel your inner MKP (actually MC, MKP plays that other bad race) and split your shit. If you can, try to have the immortals tanking, it takes like 15 (i think) banes to kill a single immortal. Besides, who the hell goes ling baneling anyway?

Vods:
http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv/b/396294648?t=2h02m00s vs TLO
http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv/b/396294648?t=12h40m00s vs Leenock

edit: replays!Naniwa vs Hyun http://drop.sc/336162 Naniwa vs Yugioh http://drop.sc/344420
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
May 25 2013 20:05 GMT
#2
Time to get MANly.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Kommatiazo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States579 Posts
May 25 2013 20:18 GMT
#3
I'm gonna go spread my manliness all over the ladder now.
"You must enemy don't know, and very good micro" - Bosstoss #Wet4Ret
Insomni7
Profile Joined June 2011
667 Posts
May 25 2013 20:28 GMT
#4
Haha I love this guide. But as a zerg, I never felt that this push was very strong against any kind of roach defense. It's more of a timing to kill your opponent while he is teching.
Never Forget.
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
May 25 2013 20:47 GMT
#5
As a zerg, how do I know this is coming, and what is a good response to it?
hundred thousand krouner
Bahajinbo
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany488 Posts
May 25 2013 22:56 GMT
#6
I will use this one a lot. Time to bring some zerg tears!
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 26 2013 00:00 GMT
#7
On May 26 2013 05:47 Zheryn wrote:
As a zerg, how do I know this is coming, and what is a good response to it?


Make tons of shit more than anything. You can see it coming because the p has an insanely fast robo and only one gas.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
May 26 2013 00:05 GMT
#8
Only did this to two zergs so far, executed sloppy as fuck both times and still ripped shit. Thanks. Ill make this a staple <3
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
May 26 2013 00:08 GMT
#9
Teoita is all hopped up on testosterone... I dig it. Good guide.
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-26 00:36:11
May 26 2013 00:33 GMT
#10
this build made my day rofl
Edit#2: nvm i can't read
$O$ | soO
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
May 26 2013 01:09 GMT
#11
One problem I have with the Nexus cannon to deny scouting is that this is the only build I've ever seen do it. So, wouldn't me using the Nexus cannon on their overlord already tell a skilled Zerg everything they need to know?
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
May 26 2013 01:45 GMT
#12
I dont understand why naniwa doesnt just warp in in the opponent's main, I've been doing this for quite a while it's pretty good, but if zergs read it it's very easy to counter, sometimes i get there and zergs just have sooooooo many roaches i cant win
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
May 26 2013 01:55 GMT
#13
Lovely (:
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
May 26 2013 03:36 GMT
#14
Now if only I can figure out a way to work +1 armor into the push too, without really delaying it. Then I can really have MANLOTS.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-26 03:45:40
May 26 2013 03:45 GMT
#15
On May 26 2013 10:09 Salivanth wrote:
One problem I have with the Nexus cannon to deny scouting is that this is the only build I've ever seen do it. So, wouldn't me using the Nexus cannon on their overlord already tell a skilled Zerg everything they need to know?


Not necessarily, he doesn't really have any way of knowing that you aren't hiding something else entirely. I've popped the cannon to hide DT's before.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
May 26 2013 03:47 GMT
#16
haha i love the way this guide is written another pvz all in to the arsenal
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5219 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-26 03:55:56
May 26 2013 03:51 GMT
#17
We had a guide on this already, posted 4 days ago, exact same build order: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413736

That said, thanks, especially for the Dreamhack links and any replays you provide. Those are absent from the other thread.
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
May 26 2013 04:03 GMT
#18
On May 26 2013 12:51 BronzeKnee wrote:
We had a guide on this already, posted 4 days ago, exact same build order: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413736

That said, thanks, especially for the Dreamhack links and any replays you provide. Those are absent from the other thread.


Also, this one was much more entertaining...
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
May 26 2013 05:49 GMT
#19
True. Also, considering that Immortals are returned Zealots, it really is the Manlot all-in!

Zealots: cutting up stuff in your face style since 1998.
KT best KT ~ 2014
freewareplayer
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany403 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-26 08:10:37
May 26 2013 08:09 GMT
#20
I did this a couple of times on ladder, executing it as bad as possible, not even following a BO, (remembered a caster saying +1 zealot immortal with 1 gas) and im something like 5/1 with it. And wow, this build makes people rage :D.

Only time i lost my robo got scouted really really early (neo planet s) and the Zerg gibbed me with ling hydra.
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