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I figured it would be good to discuss the new maps and possible vetos for Zerg players in the new season.
Map Pool:
Akilon Wastes
+ Show Spoiler +
Bel'Shir Vestige
+ Show Spoiler +
Derelict Watcher TE
+ Show Spoiler +
Whirlwind LE
+ Show Spoiler +
Polar Night LE
+ Show Spoiler +
Yeonsu LE
+ Show Spoiler +
Frost LE
+ Show Spoiler +
Poll: What is the worst map for Zerg?Polar Night LE (18) 33% Akilon Wastes (15) 27% Derelict Watcher TE (5) 9% Yeonsu LE (5) 9% Frost LE (5) 9% Whirlwind LE (4) 7% Bel'Shir Vestige (3) 5% 55 total votes Your vote: What is the worst map for Zerg? (Vote): Akilon Wastes
(Vote): Bel'Shir Vestige
(Vote): Derelict Watcher TE
(Vote): Whirlwind LE
(Vote): Polar Night LE
(Vote): Yeonsu LE
(Vote): Frost LE
Poll: What is the best map for Zerg?Derelict Watcher TE (22) 54% Polar Night LE (5) 12% Akilon Wastes (4) 10% Bel'Shir Vestige (3) 7% Whirlwind LE (3) 7% Yeonsu LE (2) 5% Frost LE (2) 5% 41 total votes Your vote: What is the best map for Zerg? (Vote): Akilon Wastes
(Vote): Bel'Shir Vestige
(Vote): Derelict Watcher TE
(Vote): Whirlwind LE
(Vote): Polar Night LE
(Vote): Yeonsu LE
(Vote): Frost LE
Personally, I believe that Polar Night LE is most difficult for Zerg because they must expand toward their opponent to take a third without having to destroy at least one set of destructible rocks. Without the rocks blocking the placement of the third, it is a good map. Derelict Watcher TE is probably best for zerg because of the wide open middle, allowing for easier surrounds. But that is just my opinion, what does the TL community think?
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I completely agree with you. Derelict watcher is very good because it's basicly a football field. Polar night is borderline unplayable if you want to go for a fast third (as usual). Yeonsu is okay and so is frost because of the wide mid area and the size. Frost should certainly be cross only as the third base can be very dangerous to take for P and Z vs T in close spawns.
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I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D
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On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D
i'd love to hear your opinion on Polar Night.
And Hi!!! I love your guides :D
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On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D
*Throws panties* 
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On August 27 2013 10:03 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D i'd love to hear your opinion on Polar Night. And Hi!!! I love your guides :D
So far I have no issues with Polar, but I haven't played that much on it yet. I don't like the 4th behind the base, but I am not sure if it will be an issue or anything since it is rocks. Right now I like it, that could change though 
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i saw on catz say polar nights is ok
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On August 27 2013 12:41 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 10:03 envisioN . wrote:On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D i'd love to hear your opinion on Polar Night. And Hi!!! I love your guides :D So far I have no issues with Polar, but I haven't played that much on it yet. I don't like the 4th behind the base, but I am not sure if it will be an issue or anything since it is rocks. Right now I like it, that could change though
My issue with it is how the third base is so far into the middle of the map, that it makes it very difficult to hold against an aggressive Protoss or Terran. It almost feels like a fourth base with how exposed it is, and I would love to see the rocks at the back base taken out so it could be taken as a 3rd base
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On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D
BLADE HAS SPOKEN.
Im actualy not like a lot of zergs apparently. I greatly dislike derelict watcher because when I get a slow late game comp, the base layout is so clunky; there isnt really a direct path through bases that I like, and late game toss harass on that map is nightmare material.
Belshir I like because, I dont actualy know. I guess because the games are shorter and just the map layout appeals to me.
Akilon is a great map if they remove that horrid 4th location or add another entrance to either one of them. Seriously, sure its ok for it to be hard to kill a toss on 3 base, but when its impossible to break a 4 base toss because of chokes, thats just absurd.
Havent played any of the new maps. Looks like all tosses are going to enjoy that third in PvZ though. And to think that a terran can get such an easy 4th on a map, it gives me shudders. Especialy with this smaler (?) map.
Yeonsu looks like a solid map. Unlike other maps with islands, I like how its close to the main ground so you can slowly siege it up. Looks like games will be shorter on this map, easy 4th, harder third for zergs, but overall I can see why this map did so well in TLMC.
Frost looks like a very very solid map too. I have a feeling there may be the klontas mire effect where on close spawns the chokepoint would let cheeses get a bit out of control and those same passages would not be used for the rest of the game but I may be wrong. I'd like to see rocks on Yeonsu's island expos just cuz, and cross spawns on frost.
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Derelict Watcher is shit. The middle is open but the base layout and the minimal space around the bases really lets the whole map down. It's basically Planet S with an open middle.
I actually like Polar Night. It feels like Akilon (relatively safe 4th) but with much less aids.
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I'm with blade on this one. Bel'shir because my winrate vs. Terran sucks on that map and Akilon because I'm sick of it.
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In my opinion polar night also seems annoying for zvz since it has a pretty short rush distance and the main ramp is far away from the natural hatchery, so its very exposed to early speedling allins.
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would love vots for protoss to see what i should veto
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Polar night looks really nice for Z actually, the ramps are wide, and say that if you spawn 12, the 3 o'clock base is a viable 3rd if you can hold your watch tower (the right one) as you can see attacks coming towards your natural and your 3rd. Then you can take the rocks out and take the safe back base as a 4th and the one in front of your main as a 5th. Because the middle of the map is quite open, if you're active on the map, there should be ample opportunities for flanks and surrounds.
Frost looks alright, people complaining about rush distances probably haven't actually loaded up the map and seen how big the map actually is. Both potential 3rds have strengths and weaknesses, and where your opponent spawns may tip the balance in favour of one or another. One is close by ground from your nat, which is a bit open (has a 'back door'), other is a bit sheltered, but has a high ground over looking it.
I'm more worried about Yeonsu actually. The map itself is kinda small and very chokey. The ramps range from narrow to not that wide and most parts of the map wouldn't take that many forcefields to seal off. The most open areas I could find are the small areas between the collapsible rocks and the nearby tower. Both colossi deathball and mech might be quite strong on this map. As for expansions, a linear expansion pattern might be better with the forward base as a 4th.
Good map for Z: Polar night, open map layout, 5 bases within close proximity. Not as open as derelict, but easier 5 bases.
Bad map for Z: Yeonsu, small map, chokes everywhere, narrow ramps, makes flanking difficult
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On August 27 2013 17:04 FakeDouble wrote:
Polar night looks really nice for Z actually, the ramps are wide, and say that if you spawn 12, the 3 o'clock base is a viable 3rd if you can hold your watch tower (the right one) as you can see attacks coming towards your natural and your 3rd. Then you can take the rocks out and take the safe back base as a 4th and the one in front of your main as a 5th. Because the middle of the map is quite open, if you're active on the map, there should be ample opportunities for flanks and surrounds.
Polar Night just looks so small that it will be difficult to go for a very economic opening if your opponent goes for a safe expand build. I hadn't thought of taking the side base as a 3rd though, I will have to try that!
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Polar Night is so nice map, how you can veto it?
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On August 28 2013 01:26 Existor wrote:
Polar Night is so nice map, how you can veto it?
Quote this so much! This map is Akilon like but you can actually be aggressive.
The ultimate 2 players macro map ..and zergs vetoing it. So confused!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 28 2013 02:31 Kaleidos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:26 Existor wrote:
Polar Night is so nice map, how you can veto it? Quote this so much! This map is Akilon like but you can actually be aggressive. The ultimate 2 players macro map ..and zergs vetoing it. So confused!
Most people did not notice that third on sidepath :D
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 28 2013 01:07 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 17:04 FakeDouble wrote:
Polar night looks really nice for Z actually, the ramps are wide, and say that if you spawn 12, the 3 o'clock base is a viable 3rd if you can hold your watch tower (the right one) as you can see attacks coming towards your natural and your 3rd. Then you can take the rocks out and take the safe back base as a 4th and the one in front of your main as a 5th. Because the middle of the map is quite open, if you're active on the map, there should be ample opportunities for flanks and surrounds.
Polar Night just looks so small that it will be difficult to go for a very economic opening if your opponent goes for a safe expand build. I hadn't thought of taking the side base as a 3rd though, I will have to try that!
Actually Polar Night is not really small, especially compared to Yeonsu :D
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Polar night? Why? In my point of view a 3rd is almost impossible for toss or terran. Akilon wastes are still the worse map possible for zerg players.
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Seriously Akilon Wastes 2nd best map for zerg? In that roach/hydra timings are very hard to work, mech are super strong. If you dont like Swarm hosts, them akilon sucks for you in my opinion.
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Norway839 Posts
I feel like the poll should be split in ZvP and ZvT, would make more sense!
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On August 27 2013 14:00 DilemaH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 09:55 blade55555 wrote:
I veto'd belshir and akilon. I hate those maps zvt so much that I am happy to be able to veto both and have an available veto.
I hate akilon because it's so easy to secure a 4th which drags games out that should end awhile ago out because you can't deny the 4th.
Belshir is just hard to secure a 4th in general and hate that map :D BLADE HAS SPOKEN. Im actualy not like a lot of zergs apparently. I greatly dislike derelict watcher because when I get a slow late game comp, the base layout is so clunky; there isnt really a direct path through bases that I like, and late game toss harass on that map is nightmare material. Belshir I like because, I dont actualy know. I guess because the games are shorter and just the map layout appeals to me. Akilon is a great map if they remove that horrid 4th location or add another entrance to either one of them. Seriously, sure its ok for it to be hard to kill a toss on 3 base, but when its impossible to break a 4 base toss because of chokes, thats just absurd. Havent played any of the new maps. Looks like all tosses are going to enjoy that third in PvZ though. And to think that a terran can get such an easy 4th on a map, it gives me shudders. Especialy with this smaler (?) map. Yeonsu looks like a solid map. Unlike other maps with islands, I like how its close to the main ground so you can slowly siege it up. Looks like games will be shorter on this map, easy 4th, harder third for zergs, but overall I can see why this map did so well in TLMC. Frost looks like a very very solid map too. I have a feeling there may be the klontas mire effect where on close spawns the chokepoint would let cheeses get a bit out of control and those same passages would not be used for the rest of the game but I may be wrong. I'd like to see rocks on Yeonsu's island expos just cuz, and cross spawns on frost.
I'm with you on this one. I hate derelict watcher because I can't get to a fourth unless I go 5+queens creep centric to get creep on the high ground of either fourths.
I dislike Akilon because it favours Turtlefests way too much and I don' like siege mushrooms.Yeonsu seems suspicious to me (the choke behind the third reminds me a lot of taldarim and makes for a lot of potential exploits), but I left it for the sake of it. Polar night seems cool (mostly cause I win on it) but eventually should lead to a lot of turtlefests too. I have no strong feelings about Belshir. Frost I have yet to make my opinion on it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ea/Akilon_Wastes.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/59/Bel%27Shir_Vestige_SE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/e2/Derelict_Watcher_TE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/59/Whirlwind.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/f/fa/Polarnight.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/a/a4/Yeonsu_LE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/5e/Frost_LE.jpg)
