• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:15
CEST 08:15
KST 15:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33357 users

[G] Protoss Overwhelming: A Guide to Lategame ZvP - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
April 22 2013 21:49 GMT
#41
how do you feel about mixing in 8 or so queens? really think they can add a lot especially with transfuse and their tankiness + lot of creepspread. are you having queens with your army or just 5 or so to inject?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-19 00:07:39
April 22 2013 21:54 GMT
#42
On April 23 2013 06:49 Decendos wrote:
how do you feel about mixing in 8 or so queens? really think they can add a lot especially with transfuse and their tankiness + lot of creepspread. are you having queens with your army or just 5 or so to inject?


I don't' make extra queens. I am sure it's fine and all but I find it incredibly boring and I am just not a fan of mass queen styles. To slow when off creep and just kind of a boring mass unit imo that I am just not a fan of.

It's viable and it's probably good but thankfully it's not the only way nor imo the best way (or the worst way). Luckily right now in hots there are a couple different ways to play late game zvp which is really nice and you don't have to do my way or have to do the mass queen way.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Gene(S)is
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden419 Posts
April 23 2013 04:21 GMT
#43
"ultralisk/hydralisk/swarm host/brood lord/viperThe Zerg should start out with this base composition, adding in brood lords when resources allow. Infestors are also an option you may want to mix in."

I like the composition, I'm just worried about how many drones and hydras I can squeeze in. Say you have 4 ultras, that's 24 psi, 12 swarm hosts are 36 psi, 3 infestors are 9 psi, 5 brood lords are 25 psi, 3 vipers is 6 psi, 30 hydras is 60 psi.

24 + 36 + 9 + 25 + 6 + 60 = 160, that leavs room for 40 drones

Perhaps I miscalculated though >.<
For the swarm
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 23 2013 04:23 GMT
#44
On April 23 2013 13:21 Gene(S)is wrote:
"ultralisk/hydralisk/swarm host/brood lord/viperThe Zerg should start out with this base composition, adding in brood lords when resources allow. Infestors are also an option you may want to mix in."

I like the composition, I'm just worried about how many drones and hydras I can squeeze in. Say you have 4 ultras, that's 24 psi, 12 swarm hosts are 36 psi, 3 infestors are 9 psi, 5 brood lords are 25 psi, 3 vipers is 6 psi, 30 hydras is 60 psi.

24 + 36 + 9 + 25 + 6 + 60 = 160, that leavs room for 40 drones

Perhaps I miscalculated though >.<


You are miscalculating. You should have 80 drones 75-80 drones. You have to also remember less air = less hydra. If he's not making air then no hydra and main army will consist of ultra/viper/swarmhost/broodlord.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Nayman
Profile Joined April 2013
3 Posts
April 23 2013 05:07 GMT
#45
Been watching Blade's videos and reading his guides for a long time now, and I can say everything he has taught about has vastly improved my game

was stuck in plat for a long time (all throughout WoL, and now HoTS)

sticking to his macro playstyle, I am about to get into masters on NA and I got into diamond on KR

This current guide on the late game toss, has been amazing, since, I thought I had to go corruptors to even stand a chance, but I can say its all about the vipers for the late game. And swarm hosts to hold back the toss until u can get the viper / ultras out on the field.

Abducting colossi / carriers / tempests above your hydra army leads to very big smiling zerg face

Thx again for the awesome guide and keep up the great work

RandomQueen
Profile Joined March 2013
France23 Posts
April 23 2013 07:40 GMT
#46
On April 23 2013 03:32 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 19:38 Renzin wrote:
Just saw the video and came to this, great work with the guide and thankyou for making this! Makes the protoss deathball seem not so invincible now =) And lawdy that was fun to watch the blinding cloud+ultra+sh+brood lord demolition at the end of the video!


Just wait till you do it yourself. It's extremely satisfying haha

Oh YES it is ! Thanks to you for all your advices !
cdavarice
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1 Post
April 26 2013 17:17 GMT
#47
I noticed one protoss composition you don't mention in the OP is Tempest / Colossus / Templar / Stalker. Similar composition would be Tempest / Colossus / Templar / VR. These compositions are a little different than VR / Collosus / Templar, because the addition of the tempest allows protoss to camp over either static defense or a templar ball and storm / feedback away corruptors and vipers.

It seems to me that the result of this protoss composition is a micro war between vipers trying to abduct with corruptors trying to snipe colossus vs. templar trying to feedback vipers and storm corruptors. Templars and tempest have the range advantage in this scenario. If the protoss succeeds in preventing the corruptors and vipers from sniping too many units, the tempest and colossi can slowly push into zerg's static defense and eventually control the map. Blink stalkers are a second mobile anti-corruptor or viper unit. VRs would occupy the same space (more powerful, but less mobile). Even without VR or stalkers, tempest / colossus / templar stands powerfully against air and most ground. An exception might be mass ultras, but in this case protoss can add VR or immortal.

Tempests are a siege unit that ultimately force an engagement on protoss terms. Do you find that you can overwhelm the tempest / collosus / templar / (VR or stalker) composition? If so, what is your late game plan when protoss's plan is to slowly push across the map atop templars + defensive units like VR, stalker, cannon, etc.?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 26 2013 18:35 GMT
#48
I didn't talk about tempests because honestly I think mass tempests suck. It's the same composition though as before ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper.

The reason I say mass tempests suck is their DPS isn't good at all and they can't kill swarmhosts locusts or ultras very fast at all which leaves colossi/templar a lot easier to kill just because tempests DPS is low especially compared to the voidray which kills anything in seconds.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Jintoss
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong117 Posts
April 27 2013 02:45 GMT
#49
So... as toss how do you win late game engagements vs. a zerg who knows what he's doing?
We are the blades of Aiur
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 27 2013 06:51 GMT
#50
On April 27 2013 11:45 Jintoss wrote:
So... as toss how do you win late game engagements vs. a zerg who knows what he's doing?


Well it comes down to army composition and how you engage. Templar/colossi/archon/immortal/voidray is a super good composition vs this, but it's not unkillable just like zergs army. Comes down to where you engage, how you engage and all that. Did you get the feedbacks off on vipers? Did you catch his army out of position? Did you engage in a choke (this favors toss), etc. Just goes down to many things ^_^
When I think of something else, something will go here
r1flEx
Profile Joined October 2012
Belgium256 Posts
April 27 2013 10:15 GMT
#51
you've just became my new hero. thanks blade! for pimping my zvp
darkphantom
Profile Joined November 2012
98 Posts
June 30 2013 03:25 GMT
#52
What should u do if he adds in a mommaship ? abduct?
From the darkness i come
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
June 30 2013 06:28 GMT
#53
On June 30 2013 12:25 darkphantom wrote:
What should u do if he adds in a mommaship ? abduct?


You can abduct it if you want, just make sure you have vision at the least. It's not scary like it was in WoL so it shouldn't change anything.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ReMinD_
Profile Joined May 2013
Croatia846 Posts
August 18 2013 18:38 GMT
#54
I will study this guide down to last detail. And then some more.
Parting: Well, even I can make better maps than these.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12351 Posts
August 18 2013 19:07 GMT
#55
Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp?
It seems this strategy is only popular on ladder and foreign players.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 18 2013 19:13 GMT
#56
On August 19 2013 04:07 ETisME wrote:
Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp?
It seems this strategy is only popular on ladder and foreign players.


No idea, the thing is no big name player as ever really tried this style so nobody really knows about it. It's kind of how it works is when a big named player does it (say soulkey/jaedong/etc) in a match then it would be used a lot more.

I don't have a definite answer as I can't talk to them (or really any pro's) and ask them why they haven't tried x composition vs protosses y comp.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12351 Posts
August 18 2013 19:18 GMT
#57
On August 19 2013 04:13 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2013 04:07 ETisME wrote:
Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp?
It seems this strategy is only popular on ladder and foreign players.


No idea, the thing is no big name player as ever really tried this style so nobody really knows about it. It's kind of how it works is when a big named player does it (say soulkey/jaedong/etc) in a match then it would be used a lot more.

I don't have a definite answer as I can't talk to them (or really any pro's) and ask them why they haven't tried x composition vs protosses y comp.

Because according to ig.Jim interview, it seems he faced it quite a bit on ladder as well (and thinks it is problematic)
Oh well, I guess maybe the Koreans are just slow to catchup metagame like the infestor change in wol
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
August 18 2013 20:14 GMT
#58
On August 19 2013 04:07 ETisME wrote:
Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp?


Because the author is toying around on NA against 95% half-casual players.
Do you really think that the Koreans aren't coming up with new strategies and figure out what's working and what not?
Or what do you believe they are doing in 10 hours of practice a day?
Anything works against non-Koreans.
http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
snexwang
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia224 Posts
August 18 2013 20:35 GMT
#59
^ Blade plays on KR, dude.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
August 18 2013 20:38 GMT
#60
Swarm hosts just don't work unless you play them in a style with mass spines/spores and the intention to slowly whittle away your opponent.
If you play a 'normal' style (ie. not relying on mass static defense) you're just better off going without swarm hosts. Swarm hosts are not hard to attack into if not covered by static defense, 2 hydra's instead of the swarm host for example will do better in pretty much any situation where it will come down to just 1 fight. Besides that swarm hosts make your army quite slow and harder to split up which can easily be abused by top protosses if you don't have the static defense (plus a map that supports it).
Swarm hosts need some altering imo where they are better for use as a burst unit / addition to your main army and worse at the role of "I whittle you to do death while I sit behind my spore/spine wall". (my favorite way to do this would be buffing the locusts hp but letting them decay hp over time instead of giving them a timer => much stronger as a burst unit used in fights but much weaker when trying to kill something at super long range by themselves)
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC #10: SC Evolution
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mcanning 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35921
Sea 4873
GoRush 300
Leta 249
Movie 36
Sacsri 24
Bale 12
Dota 2
XcaliburYe16
League of Legends
JimRising 731
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1204
Other Games
shahzam1011
WinterStarcraft531
Mew2King361
Maynarde87
NeuroSwarm42
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3015
Other Games
gamesdonequick693
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH332
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1939
• Stunt555
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 45m
WardiTV Invitational
4h 45m
WardiTV Invitational
4h 45m
PiGosaur Monday
17h 45m
GSL Code S
1d 3h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 17h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.