EPT[G] Protoss Overwhelming: A Guide to Lategame ZvP - Page 3
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 23 2013 06:49 Decendos wrote: how do you feel about mixing in 8 or so queens? really think they can add a lot especially with transfuse and their tankiness + lot of creepspread. are you having queens with your army or just 5 or so to inject? I don't' make extra queens. I am sure it's fine and all but I find it incredibly boring and I am just not a fan of mass queen styles. To slow when off creep and just kind of a boring mass unit imo that I am just not a fan of. It's viable and it's probably good but thankfully it's not the only way nor imo the best way (or the worst way). Luckily right now in hots there are a couple different ways to play late game zvp which is really nice and you don't have to do my way or have to do the mass queen way. | ||
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Gene(S)is
Sweden419 Posts
I like the composition, I'm just worried about how many drones and hydras I can squeeze in. Say you have 4 ultras, that's 24 psi, 12 swarm hosts are 36 psi, 3 infestors are 9 psi, 5 brood lords are 25 psi, 3 vipers is 6 psi, 30 hydras is 60 psi. 24 + 36 + 9 + 25 + 6 + 60 = 160, that leavs room for 40 drones  Perhaps I miscalculated though >.< | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 23 2013 13:21 Gene(S)is wrote: "ultralisk/hydralisk/swarm host/brood lord/viperThe Zerg should start out with this base composition, adding in brood lords when resources allow. Infestors are also an option you may want to mix in." I like the composition, I'm just worried about how many drones and hydras I can squeeze in. Say you have 4 ultras, that's 24 psi, 12 swarm hosts are 36 psi, 3 infestors are 9 psi, 5 brood lords are 25 psi, 3 vipers is 6 psi, 30 hydras is 60 psi. 24 + 36 + 9 + 25 + 6 + 60 = 160, that leavs room for 40 drones Perhaps I miscalculated though >.< You are miscalculating. You should have 80 drones 75-80 drones. You have to also remember less air = less hydra. If he's not making air then no hydra and main army will consist of ultra/viper/swarmhost/broodlord. | ||
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Nayman
3 Posts
was stuck in plat for a long time (all throughout WoL, and now HoTS) sticking to his macro playstyle, I am about to get into masters on NA and I got into diamond on KR This current guide on the late game toss, has been amazing, since, I thought I had to go corruptors to even stand a chance, but I can say its all about the vipers for the late game. And swarm hosts to hold back the toss until u can get the viper / ultras out on the field. Abducting colossi / carriers / tempests above your hydra army leads to very big smiling zerg face Thx again for the awesome guide and keep up the great work | ||
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RandomQueen
France23 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:32 blade55555 wrote: Just wait till you do it yourself. It's extremely satisfying haha  Oh YES it is ! Thanks to you for all your advices  ! | ||
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cdavarice
United States1 Post
It seems to me that the result of this protoss composition is a micro war between vipers trying to abduct with corruptors trying to snipe colossus vs. templar trying to feedback vipers and storm corruptors. Templars and tempest have the range advantage in this scenario. If the protoss succeeds in preventing the corruptors and vipers from sniping too many units, the tempest and colossi can slowly push into zerg's static defense and eventually control the map. Blink stalkers are a second mobile anti-corruptor or viper unit. VRs would occupy the same space (more powerful, but less mobile). Even without VR or stalkers, tempest / colossus / templar stands powerfully against air and most ground. An exception might be mass ultras, but in this case protoss can add VR or immortal. Tempests are a siege unit that ultimately force an engagement on protoss terms. Do you find that you can overwhelm the tempest / collosus / templar / (VR or stalker) composition? If so, what is your late game plan when protoss's plan is to slowly push across the map atop templars + defensive units like VR, stalker, cannon, etc.? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
The reason I say mass tempests suck is their DPS isn't good at all and they can't kill swarmhosts locusts or ultras very fast at all which leaves colossi/templar a lot easier to kill just because tempests DPS is low especially compared to the voidray which kills anything in seconds. | ||
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Jintoss
Hong Kong117 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 27 2013 11:45 Jintoss wrote: So... as toss how do you win late game engagements vs. a zerg who knows what he's doing? Well it comes down to army composition and how you engage. Templar/colossi/archon/immortal/voidray is a super good composition vs this, but it's not unkillable just like zergs army. Comes down to where you engage, how you engage and all that. Did you get the feedbacks off on vipers? Did you catch his army out of position? Did you engage in a choke (this favors toss), etc. Just goes down to many things ^_^ | ||
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r1flEx
Belgium256 Posts
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darkphantom
98 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 30 2013 12:25 darkphantom wrote: What should u do if he adds in a mommaship ? abduct? You can abduct it if you want, just make sure you have vision at the least. It's not scary like it was in WoL so it shouldn't change anything. | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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ETisME
12457 Posts
It seems this strategy is only popular on ladder and foreign players. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 19 2013 04:07 ETisME wrote: Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp? It seems this strategy is only popular on ladder and foreign players. No idea, the thing is no big name player as ever really tried this style so nobody really knows about it. It's kind of how it works is when a big named player does it (say soulkey/jaedong/etc) in a match then it would be used a lot more. I don't have a definite answer as I can't talk to them (or really any pro's) and ask them why they haven't tried x composition vs protosses y comp. | ||
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ETisME
12457 Posts
On August 19 2013 04:13 blade55555 wrote: No idea, the thing is no big name player as ever really tried this style so nobody really knows about it. It's kind of how it works is when a big named player does it (say soulkey/jaedong/etc) in a match then it would be used a lot more. I don't have a definite answer as I can't talk to them (or really any pro's) and ask them why they haven't tried x composition vs protosses y comp. Because according to ig.Jim interview, it seems he faced it quite a bit on ladder as well (and thinks it is problematic) Oh well, I guess maybe the Koreans are just slow to catchup metagame like the infestor change in wol | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
On August 19 2013 04:07 ETisME wrote: Is there any reason why we rarely see this unit comp from korean zvp? Because the author is toying around on NA against 95% half-casual players. Do you really think that the Koreans aren't coming up with new strategies and figure out what's working and what not? Or what do you believe they are doing in 10 hours of practice a day? Anything works against non-Koreans. | ||
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snexwang
Australia224 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
If you play a 'normal' style (ie. not relying on mass static defense) you're just better off going without swarm hosts. Swarm hosts are not hard to attack into if not covered by static defense, 2 hydra's instead of the swarm host for example will do better in pretty much any situation where it will come down to just 1 fight. Besides that swarm hosts make your army quite slow and harder to split up which can easily be abused by top protosses if you don't have the static defense (plus a map that supports it). Swarm hosts need some altering imo where they are better for use as a burst unit / addition to your main army and worse at the role of "I whittle you to do death while I sit behind my spore/spine wall". (my favorite way to do this would be buffing the locusts hp but letting them decay hp over time instead of giving them a timer => much stronger as a burst unit used in fights but much weaker when trying to kill something at super long range by themselves) | ||
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