EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 37
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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n0ah
United States250 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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w4LLy
United States1 Post
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hellz.atalvez
United States25 Posts
So my question is in two parts: What is a timing push/early agressive b/o vs zerg and more embarrassingly: What do I do when I scout a 6 pool. When I wall in and force a stalker it seems to only serve to cause me more pain and heartache in the long run as they can expand all they want for free. I know skytoss is everyone's favorite plan vs zerg, but I really do not care for that kind of style. TLDR: can I do anything but FFE into skytoss... | ||
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3LILpigs
Philippines16 Posts
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SharkBait
United States36 Posts
On March 31 2013 11:34 hellz.atalvez wrote: No matter what I do I can't seem to deal with zerg. I tend to favor timing pushes/agressive styles and yet I can't seem to figure one out for zerg. So my question is in two parts: What is a timing push/early agressive b/o vs zerg and more embarrassingly: What do I do when I scout a 6 pool. When I wall in and force a stalker it seems to only serve to cause me more pain and heartache in the long run as they can expand all they want for free. I know skytoss is everyone's favorite plan vs zerg, but I really do not care for that kind of style. TLDR: can I do anything but FFE into skytoss... 4 gate +1 attacks still work pretty well against an early three base zergs even up to a mid-masters level unless they invest a lot in defense, and if they do, your work is done withought taking a lot of effort. You can also do a stalker-zealot-msc poke before speed and pick off some a queen if they're sloppy. As far as timing attacks, there's always the good ol' immortal sentry all-in and now with the msc you can always recall if things go bad. Also, I'm pretty sure the +2 blink is still viable, but I wouldn't know for sure. As far as what to do after a six pool, no need to be embarrased we've all had our troubles with it  again, 4 gate +1 could work to punish anything greedy after a six pool, or just a regular 4 gate with msc. I know you don't like skytoss, but honestly I've found it's really good at punishing greedy play, either by sniping queens with phoenixes, or killing poorly defended bases with a voidray or too. It also sets you up nicely to defend muta play, which seems to happen far too often after a six pool. As a side note, why do people tend to prefer tempests over carriers? Is it because of the range? Carriers absolutely shred hydralisks, especially with upgrades, and if you can get out an oracle at a reasonable time, can also deal with 3-base swarm host play relatively well (although maybe the hosts are just coming out late?). I've been doing double stargate plays at a mid-high masters level and the only time I really see the need for tempests are against the rare infestor games or against swarm hosts. | ||
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On March 31 2013 11:34 hellz.atalvez wrote: and more embarrassingly: What do I do when I scout a 6 pool. When I wall in and force a stalker it seems to only serve to cause me more pain and heartache in the long run as they can expand all they want for free. I know skytoss is everyone's favorite plan vs zerg, but I really do not care for that kind of style. Against 6 pools, I have won every single game so far easily doing the following (based on what I have seen white-ra do): * If it's a 4 spawn map and you don't find your opponent right away, make a forge immediatly and send a second scout out. * If you see a 6 pool, immediatly build a pylon behind your mineral line. Build a cannon in your mineral line - it should not only cover your mineral probes but also close enough to one of your geysers. Make sure to surround the cannon if the lings attack it so it goes up safely. * Aim for 16 probes on minelras while responding with a proxy 3 gate. The 3 gates should surround your pylon, so lings can't unpower them. Your proxy should be placed somewhere like his third or where he is unlikely to scout. Make sure your zealots do not get trapped between your gates and pylon due to a bad rally. * Get about 5 zealots before streaming them towards the zerg's base. Kill everything you can, if he runs away, take down his pool immediatly. * Make sure to get a gas and a cybernetics core in your base. If the zerg is still alive, just think about the situation. One game, my opponent abandoned his main, got a roach warren, lost his pool, and quite a few spines. I got an oracle and followed up with a gateway push while making a few voids to kill the roaches and bypass the spines as well. | ||
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ksyrog
Poland15 Posts
On March 31 2013 17:35 DeltaBravo wrote: A question about carriers pvz. I've heard here and there that carriers are secretly good vs hydralisks, and I was wondering about the general idea of going carriers vs a hydra roach player. I saw one game where grubby was trolling and rushed carriers off of an FFE and demolished a zerg by abusing the airspace behind his main and the new carrier micro technique. As you can't really abuse that aspect of carriers on every map, has anyone used them straight up vs a hydra-roach army and had any success? Recent thread (with replays) on allthingsprotoss contains a lot useful information about carriers in pvz. | ||
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Toplicane
Germany25 Posts
On March 31 2013 11:05 w4LLy wrote: Im not sure if anyone has asked this already but is there a New version of the three gate robo now that hots is out? has the stargate replaced the robo? It's still working pretty good versus terran in my opinion. I'm only high dia tho, but after the core I immediately build the robo, then add two gates. As soons as I got the minerals I build a MSC, because the slow is just so damn good vs bio. It helps you to defend minedrops pretty good, as well as punish greedy builds. Don't know how good it is in higher games tho. Edit: http://drop.sc/316279 My last game vs T - not the best execution known to man, but I think it shows that it's still viable, even if you fuck up on the way. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Whalecore
Norway1111 Posts
On March 31 2013 22:14 Teoita wrote: Oh yeah lol. I'm like 25-0 on ladder with 4gate +1 into DT xD sickest build! Is this the build HelloKitty uses in most of his PvZ games in the HotS replay pack? That is a very strong build, I've been using it to improve my DT play. Also been using MVP_TAiLS super greedy DT/warp prism expand in PvT. Vod here (requires gomtv subscription): http://www.gomtv.net/2013gstls1/vod/72093 Fun build, hard to defend agressive terran play but playing greedy force me to micro better and is a good way to improve. As for PvZ I'm trying to learn FFE -> stargate as my standard 'getting into lategame' build. It's really hard to get enough colossus out if he goes fast swarm hosts, but I think it's the safest PvZ opening. On some maps maybe FFE -> robo into super early 3rd is safer, but that requires easy to defend third and zerg must play defensive until lair timings. If anyone have vods/replays of someone playing 2012 Kespa-toss style stargate into robo & 3rd in HotS, please please post here  Thanks! | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On March 31 2013 22:14 Teoita wrote: Oh yeah lol. I'm like 25-0 on ladder with 4gate +1 into DT xD sickest build! I've been doing that for my last 10 PvZs and won all of them too. It's a great build, so glad that a more harrassment based style seems to work better in HotS. Though tbh a lot of zergs just take so much damage from the initial pressure that I could pretty much follow up with anything really. | ||
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Darthsanta13
United States564 Posts
On March 31 2013 22:37 Whalecore wrote: Is this the build HelloKitty uses in most of his PvZ games in the HotS replay pack? That is a very strong build, I've been using it to improve my DT play. Also been using MVP_TAiLS super greedy DT/warp prism expand in PvT. Vod here (requires gomtv subscription): http://www.gomtv.net/2013gstls1/vod/72093 Fun build, hard to defend agressive terran play but playing greedy force me to micro better and is a good way to improve. As for PvZ I'm trying to learn FFE -> stargate as my standard 'getting into lategame' build. It's really hard to get enough colossus out if he goes fast swarm hosts, but I think it's the safest PvZ opening. On some maps maybe FFE -> robo into super early 3rd is safer, but that requires easy to defend third and zerg must play defensive until lair timings. If anyone have vods/replays of someone playing 2012 Kespa-toss style stargate into robo & 3rd in HotS, please please post here Thanks!You can also see Artosis use Tails' build (or something similar) in the first game of his most recent streaming session if you want to see it first person: http://www.twitch.tv/artosis/b/384586738 | ||
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Excludos
Norway8198 Posts
User was warned for this post edit: Funny how I visit this thread a lot, and still managed to forget that white text on the top that tells me to not do exactly what I did. (I even wrote a lot more, but decided to make it simple fail)Anyways, my problem lies in that I really like air openings, especially in PvZ, where multitasking can be rewarded with phoenix harass and whatnot. Usually I open stargate of ffe, and grab a third as I'm harassing. The problem lies in those games where the zerg goes for mass hydras. Once I scout it I usually just throw down a robo bay right away and desperately try to get a collosus out. If I somehow hold off the first attack, all the zerg needs to do is to add some corrupter to his next attack and thats the end of that game. So back to my original question, does anyone know of any way to make skytoss actually work vs zerg in the early/mid game? | ||
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Tekakan
Sweden78 Posts
On March 29 2013 20:59 rsvp wrote: - I agree on 1 gate FE into fast robo being really safe. - Double forge is very strong. One big reasoning behind this is that with new speedvacs it's easier for terran to deny or slow your 3rd. So instead of trying to expand faster to get an advantage, you can go the easier route of faster upgrades to get ahead in the game. - Colo -> templar is still my favorite way to play. A lot of people have success with going straight to templar on 2 base, but I don't feel comfortable with it. It's a personal preference thing though. - I tried going phoenix on 2 base with colossus... couldn't really get it to work. In theory phoenix sounds like a good counter to medivac drops but in practice, they still don't 100% stop all drops, it makes your army really susceptible to mass vikings, and the terran can always still just secure and keep their economic lead. Do you mind posting a couple of replays of yourself playing the double forge build? I heard Artosis and Theognis talking about it on SOTG but they (Theo) said that it wasn't played out the same way Creator used to do it in WOL. I'm losing a lot against Terran, mainly due to 1 forge 2 colo + HT with storm -> 3rd just doesn't set me up good enough for the 170-200 food pushes Terrans do. | ||
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Whalecore
Norway1111 Posts
On April 01 2013 00:44 Darthsanta13 wrote: You can also see Artosis use Tails' build (or something similar) in the first game of his most recent streaming session if you want to see it first person: http://www.twitch.tv/artosis/b/384586738 Will check out. I mapped out the build earlier also if anyone is interested: + Show Spoiler + MVP Tails PvT MMC Dark templar expand (2x chrono nexus) 13 gate 15 double gas (2 probes in each gas) 16 pylon (chrono nexus) 18 cybernetics core (chrono nexus) 19 zealot (note you can only start this if you don't scout, if you scout after gateway just cancel this step) (chrono nexus) (cancel zealot when core finishes (unless funky stuff incoming)) 23 warp gate 23 mothership core (stop probe production) 23 nexus (3 probes in each gas now) (resume probe production) (chrono nexus) (chrono warp gate) 25 robo 25 twillight 25 pylon 26 stalker 30 warp prism (chrono) 32 dark shrine 36 observer 36 gateway pylon warp in 2dts in his main at 07:23 | ||
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