EPTThe Protoss basically just held his ramp with gateway units+msc until he had a second oracle, while sending the first to the terran's base (and killing every scv). I think he was forced into cancelling the nexus though.
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 35
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
The Protoss basically just held his ramp with gateway units+msc until he had a second oracle, while sending the first to the terran's base (and killing every scv). I think he was forced into cancelling the nexus though. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On March 30 2013 04:36 Kinon wrote: How do you know he's going for Oracles when going 3 stalker rush into MSC pressure? With this build Ionly scout my base for proxy, and rely on that fast push to figure out what his doing. So, if he has some units, my first tree stalkers won't be able to get any info. Should I probe scout, or just leave 2 stalkers preemptively? Sorry for the noobish question I posted in this thread, I'm just a plat toss trying to figure out a safe build in PvP. It's not a noobish question at all. The truth is you do not know that he is going for oracles. All you know is his gas timing and whether or not he added an early second gateway. If he takes early gas and no second gateway there is a chance of a fast oracle and you need to be aware of it. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On March 30 2013 05:16 hzflank wrote: It's not a noobish question at all. The truth is you do not know that he is going for oracles. All you know is his gas timing and whether or not he added an early second gateway. If he takes early gas and no second gateway there is a chance of a fast oracle and you need to be aware of it. I think it might be safest and best to open 3 stalker opening into phoenix (2 gate stargate). That way you have enough units to hold your ramp with MsC assistance, the first phoenix to scout for DTs/Blink, and an easy way to kill oracles. Maybe that's too safe and wouldn't have enough of an edge vs a 1 gate tech opening? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Kinon
Romania207 Posts
On March 30 2013 05:23 Salient wrote: I think it might be safest and best to open 3 stalker opening into phoenix (2 gate stargate). That way you have enough units to hold your ramp with MsC assistance, the first phoenix to scout for DTs/Blink, and an easy way to kill oracles. Maybe that's too safe and wouldn't have enough of an edge vs a 1 gate tech opening? The reason I asked is because I use a build from HelloKitty's replay back, 8 stalker+MSC push. He seemed to win everything with it without scouting until the push (6:30). However, he didn't play against the fast oracle that I encountered, and I'm a little lost now. I think next time I'll send a probe after cyber core to check his base, even if I don't have enough experience to know what to look for. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On March 30 2013 04:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Are you claiming that you can go 1gate expand, cyber core, then robo, then two forges, and then two more gateways and hold any early pressure (let alone a full out rush/ proxy raxes/ reapers) all because you have a mothership core? And this is at what level of play? What if your opponent, like, scouts you or something? I agree you can be slightly greedier and defend your natural easier with the mothership core, but I think you're exaggerating a bit. I'm pretty sure that build was brought up on yesterday's state of the game as being very good in the current gamestate. if you see indications of pressure (2nd rax, tech lab, etc) then you can chrono out some sentries/stalkers. The whole idea of the build is to be prepared for both widow mine drops and the standard 10-11 minute medivac timing since pre-medivac stim timings have become very uncommon in HOTS. Proxy factory mine + MM push could also be tough to hold but again the entire style depends on diligent scouting. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 30 2013 04:46 Teoita wrote: I remember that happening at -some- game at MLG or IEM and the Protoss holding off, but i can't remember which series (or tournament sorry). I only remember it was on Akilon Wasted (or Flats whatever). Might have been Parting. The Protoss basically just held his ramp with gateway units+msc until he had a second oracle, while sending the first to the terran's base (and killing every scv). I think he was forced into cancelling the nexus though. Dream vs First, Akilon Wastes at IEM. | ||
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
tl;dr : I'm lost pvz late game! http://drop.sc/315668 | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
How do you remember all these games wtf :O | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Some people have weird memories like that, I'm one of them, I can even remember the spawn locations most time, or IRL I can remember where I was sitting and where my friends were sitting on most nights out. Unfortunately my memory does not extend to being good at remembering builds damnit!  | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
The ghosts simply EMP my immortals and I don't even stand a chance against hellbats & tanks. I cannot engage the ghosts with high templars because of the mines & siege tanks. Is mass air with phoenix & tempest the only possible counter or can I do a strong timing push against a mech player? | ||
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idkfa
United States77 Posts
http://drop.sc/315725 | ||
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
On March 30 2013 10:27 idkfa wrote: Hey guys, I got wrecked by a Thor cheese that is pretty well described in the thread [H][L]Fast Thor Opening. The addition of turbo medivacs has apparently worked well for the dude that hit me with it, judging by his match history. My early warning probe caught sight of his SCV moveout, but I just didn't see the Thor coming. How wide is the gulf between what I did and what it would have taken to prevail? http://drop.sc/315725 Your expansion build is incredibly greedy, almost anything would have killed you. Before you do anything else, I'd learn a more standard 1g expo build. Silly cheeses like that one are stopped by having a strong opener. Do an expand that has: Nexus down by 4:30 3 gateways + warpgate research finishing at 6 minutes A tech building between 6 and 6:30 Do this, and you should be fine vs that attack. | ||
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idkfa
United States77 Posts
On March 30 2013 10:36 ThaReckoning wrote: Your expansion build is incredibly greedy, almost anything would have killed you. Before you do anything else, I'd learn a more standard 1g expo build. Silly cheeses like that one are stopped by having a strong opener. Do an expand that has: Nexus down by 4:30 3 gateways + warpgate research finishing at 6 minutes A tech building between 6 and 6:30 Do this, and you should be fine vs that attack. Thanks for the feedback, ThaReckoning! I will put your advice into practice. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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ShaolinZorg
Belgium47 Posts
http://drop.sc/315725 Your expansion build is incredibly greedy, almost anything would have killed you. Before you do anything else, I'd learn a more standard 1g expo build. Silly cheeses like that one are stopped by having a strong opener. Do an expand that has: Nexus down by 4:30 3 gateways + warpgate research finishing at 6 minutes A tech building between 6 and 6:30 Do this, and you should be fine vs that attack. what do you mean exactly by "greedy" ? too much building, not enough units ? should'nt we go stargate -> robo -> 2 stargate instead ? | ||
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
On March 30 2013 20:19 ShaolinZorg wrote: what do you mean exactly by "greedy" ? too much building, not enough units ? should'nt we go stargate -> robo -> 2 stargate instead ? It's greedy in that it doesn't respect any potential timings from the terran. I'm sure he has a lot of BO losses using that opener. You have to have some self control when teching and expanding, you can't get away with as much as he was trying to get away with. | ||
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ShaolinZorg
Belgium47 Posts
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
On March 30 2013 20:33 ShaolinZorg wrote: in that context´ do you usually warp units after warp research and 3 gates are completed or is it better to warp them only in case of early attack ? It all depends on what the terran does/what your composition goal is. | ||
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