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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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justsayinbro
307 Posts
few questions about the unit, what is a good time to get it out to be immune to early pushes? any good builds that utilizes this? also heard about the stalker msc rush which I cannot seem to find BO for... can anyone point me to the right direction? any cool replays that showcase proper MSC usages? Thank you in advance :D | ||
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swagsurgeon
United States12 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On March 29 2013 13:29 justsayinbro wrote: so it seems like I am still playing WoL since I never make MSC... few questions about the unit, what is a good time to get it out to be immune to early pushes? any good builds that utilizes this? also heard about the stalker msc rush which I cannot seem to find BO for... can anyone point me to the right direction? any cool replays that showcase proper MSC usages? Thank you in advance :D MC has really good MSC usage. Check him out, he can give you a lot of really good ways to use it. He's also pretty fond of pressure using the MSC, so that can answer your other question too. As far as when to get it out, after first Stalker in PvP is when I get it out, after first Sentry in PvZ, and after my expo and second Assimilator in PvT. But it depends on your build, so look at some players on streams and see when they are getting their MSC out. Good luck! | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On March 29 2013 13:58 swagsurgeon wrote: Hey all. Im having a lot of trouble stopping mass muta corrupter in pvz. I open sg, and the way the zerg will do it, is they'll build anywhere from 6-10 corrupters and then transition into mass muta. My issue is pheonix is the only real counter to muta in hots, but with the corrupter mix i cant seem to beat it. I play at a mid gm level usually top 50. Id love to upload a replay, but I dont know how T.T. If anyone has any advice id defanitely take it into consideration. I fell weird commenting on a mid GM's question, because you know more about the game than I do probably, but I do have some ideas here. I think the answer to this, and Day9 on some MLG games seems to agree, that storm is the way to take out Corruptors, along with Phoenix for the Mutas. I think if you're going to go Phoenix against Mutas you have to get 2 Stargates so you can get Voids and Phoenixes, get Storm ASAP, and use cannons in the mean time to stop them from killing you. If you keep your Phoenixes away from the Corruptors and around Cannons, they shouldn't be able to take them out before you have Voids and Storm to combat them effectively. Air toss requires COPIOUS amounts of Cannons. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
On state of the game Artosis talked about going robo rather then stargate makes you super safe in the early game, as well as theognis saying double forge is very strong. And like I've said, I don't really like the colosus death-ball style. So now I'm thinking I have to go something like 1 gate FE, skip the stargate and go into robo while adding gates and double forge. Then hit some sort of colosus timing while taking a 3rd and teching to templar? Then again I feel like earlier templar for feedback vs medivac drops would be good, but maybe not necessary on 2 base?. Also, like I said, just having a stargate for a few phoenixes vs medivacs sound like a really good thing(rather then early templar). So 1 gate FE into robo, double forge AND stargate? Would I even be able to support that? The more I think about it the more it makes sense to go the MC-like opening with stargate into expand THEN add robo and forges a little bit later.. Honestly I feel kind of lost.. What are your guys' thoughts on the MU? edit:fixed SOME of my horrible english, pardon me! ;D | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On March 29 2013 20:16 blae000 wrote: So what are you guys opening PvT ? I've tried the MC PvT Oracle thing.. But I feel like it have to do damage to be good, and it doesn't feel like the safest of options. But I also think that having a stargate reasonably early is good PvT. I don't really like the colosus death ball-style of play either. So.... On state of the game Artosis talked about going robo rather then stargate makes you super safe in the early game, as well as theognis saying double forge is very strong. And like I've said, I don't really like the colosus death-ball style. So now I'm thinking I have to go something like 1 gate FE, skip the stargate and go into robo while adding gates and double forge. Then hit some sort of colosus timing while taking a 3rd and teching to templar? Then again I feel like earlier templar for feedback vs medivac drops would be good, but maybe not necessary on 2 base?. Also, like I said, just having a stargate for a few phoenixes vs medivacs sound like a really good thing(rather then early templar). So 1 gate FE into robo, double forge AND stargate? Would I even be able to support that? The more I think about it the more it makes sense to go the MC-like opening with stargate into expand THEN add robo and forges a little bit later.. Honestly I feel kind of lost.. What are your guys' thoughts on the MU? edit:fixed SOME of my horrible english, pardon me! ;D - I agree on 1 gate FE into fast robo being really safe. - Double forge is very strong. One big reasoning behind this is that with new speedvacs it's easier for terran to deny or slow your 3rd. So instead of trying to expand faster to get an advantage, you can go the easier route of faster upgrades to get ahead in the game. - Colo -> templar is still my favorite way to play. A lot of people have success with going straight to templar on 2 base, but I don't feel comfortable with it. It's a personal preference thing though. - I tried going phoenix on 2 base with colossus... couldn't really get it to work. In theory phoenix sounds like a good counter to medivac drops but in practice, they still don't 100% stop all drops, it makes your army really susceptible to mass vikings, and the terran can always still just secure and keep their economic lead. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On March 29 2013 20:59 rsvp wrote: - Colo -> templar is still my favorite way to play. A lot of people have success with going straight to templar on 2 base, but I don't feel comfortable with it. It's a personal preference thing though. What colossus builds are you doing? The new 2colo with range into fast templar seems to work pretty well... | ||
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
On March 29 2013 20:59 rsvp wrote: - I agree on 1 gate FE into fast robo being really safe. - Double forge is very strong. One big reasoning behind this is that with new speedvacs it's easier for terran to deny or slow your 3rd. So instead of trying to expand faster to get an advantage, you can go the easier route of faster upgrades to get ahead in the game. - Colo -> templar is still my favorite way to play. A lot of people have success with going straight to templar on 2 base, but I don't feel comfortable with it. It's a personal preference thing though. - I tried going phoenix on 2 base with colossus... couldn't really get it to work. In theory phoenix sounds like a good counter to medivac drops but in practice, they still don't 100% stop all drops, it makes your army really susceptible to mass vikings, and the terran can always still just secure and keep their economic lead. Teoita wrote: What colossus builds are you doing? The new 2colo with range into fast templar seems to work pretty well... Question to both, when do you grab your third in either of these? The problem i got with pvt is that i can't punish greedy play, while also having huge difficulties grabbing a third. Feels like i have to spread everything so thin and/or having 5 or more observers spread out to know what's happening. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
 PvT is my worst matchup by far atm.As far as playing vs greed goes, i agree with rsvp that double forge is very strong. If you can't have a big econ might as well have the strongest 2base army possible. | ||
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
On March 29 2013 22:16 Teoita wrote: Yeah my third is always way later than i would like it to be, it's usually after like 13 minutes PvT is my worst matchup by far atm.As far as playing vs greed goes, i agree with rsvp that double forge is very strong. If you can't have a big econ might as well have the strongest 2base army possible. I've been trying it lately but to no real success. Drop's seldomly do much damage, and if i can get a lucky break and actually kill medivacs without him doing any damage i'm ahead. Terran's that play safe and stay on 2 bases aren't a big problem either. The hard part is a greedy terran who constantly keep's me back with drops. Since i usually go robo before any templar tech i guess i can't push out without risking a loss in a straight up fight and also a medivac to shred my base. In the latest 10 games i might have won two, and both were to very much inferior players. It just feel's like im playing without a plan, and if i follow a plan i will have it shut down either way. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27282 Posts
Don't get me wrong it's not imbalanced but Terran have a much stronger mid game than in WoL, without actually doing anything strategically different. Most P innovations in HoTS so far all involve pre-medivac aggression as our new units bar the MsC don't really have much utility against standard bio T. For the record PvT is my favourite matchup, and by far my strongest, so this is coming from me in a non-bitching manner! | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
On March 29 2013 22:27 Wombat_NI wrote: This for me is the issue with medivacs. You don't die to drops but you are really, really stretched if you try to take a third at anything approaching WoL timings. Meanwhile Terrans can sit back and relax, float their third CC down and do huge, huge bio pushes. Don't get me wrong it's not imbalanced but Terran have a much stronger mid game than in WoL, without actually doing anything strategically different. Most P innovations in HoTS so far all involve pre-medivac aggression as our new units bar the MsC don't really have much utility against standard bio T. For the record PvT is my favourite matchup, and by far my strongest, so this is coming from me in a non-bitching manner! Ye pretty much it. On maps like Belshir or whirlwind i have bigger problem, whereas maps like Akilon and Newkirk offer the elevation problem, yet easier to grab 3rd. It just feels like i have to play better as a defender than what they have as an attacker. I can spread thin but risk getting killed straight off from his ball of units.. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27282 Posts
On March 29 2013 23:26 Mellon wrote: Ye pretty much it. On maps like Belshir or whirlwind i have bigger problem, whereas maps like Akilon and Newkirk offer the elevation problem, yet easier to grab 3rd. It just feels like i have to play better as a defender than what they have as an attacker. I can spread thin but risk getting killed straight off from his ball of units.. This map pool has few, if any 'Protoss' maps which is often neglected in the discussion. The absolute P favoured maps might see different games. Our optimal tends to involve a third which is close to the natural and with some kind of choke to help against T and Z denials of an early third, but without too much dead airspace that helps mutas and medivacs. The map should also be big enough to keep Z and T off our doorstep. The map pool isn't terrible for Protoss, but I'd love to see more maps in it, including a P favoured one. I miss Cloud Kingdom, I don't mind discarding it, but the rationale of keeping things fresh is flawed if they keep bloody Daybreak! Give say, 20 good maps, with more vetos so we can get some variety. I'd love to try something like Calm Before the Storm and go straight to Skytoss just to try it, but without forcing others to play on it. There are too many big 'macro' maps with not enough interesting features that require you to mixup styles. Antiga was a good map, but most of us were sick of it. Bring it back with the awesome Star Station tileset! As a Protoss I had completely different builds for close air vs cross spawn vT on that, and I miss that variety. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Besides that many vetos would just get confusing. There would be way too many "different" map pools. I agree many hots maps don't exactly help protoss though. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On March 29 2013 22:27 Wombat_NI wrote: This for me is the issue with medivacs. You don't die to drops but you are really, really stretched if you try to take a third at anything approaching WoL timings. Meanwhile Terrans can sit back and relax, float their third CC down and do huge, huge bio pushes. Don't get me wrong it's not imbalanced but Terran have a much stronger mid game than in WoL, without actually doing anything strategically different. Most P innovations in HoTS so far all involve pre-medivac aggression as our new units bar the MsC don't really have much utility against standard bio T. For the record PvT is my favourite matchup, and by far my strongest, so this is coming from me in a non-bitching manner! I feel like PvT is pretty awful in HoTS. We can't really do sentry based (PartinG style) gateway pressure or all ins safely due to widow mines. Blink research time has been increased. We have to deal with stronger 1-1-1s and earlier cloaked threats. The 10 minute medevac timing is more brutal than ever, and it is very difficult to defend drops. In exchange, we get fragile air units that can be shut down with a single turret and that only MC can use effectively. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
On March 29 2013 21:10 Teoita wrote: What colossus builds are you doing? The new 2colo with range into fast templar seems to work pretty well... Hmm, I haven't really caught this 2colo+range fast templar build.. How does it play out? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Kinon
Romania207 Posts
On March 30 2013 00:14 Teoita wrote: It's kind of the best of both worlds type thing. More brute force strength compared to 1colo no range, less vulnerable to mass viking and faster templar compared to 3colo+blink. I've seen tons of kr protoss doing it in HotS, both at IEM and MLG. Could you suggest any vod from mlg.tv, so we could know exactly what we're talking about? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Also Tails vs Ryung from GSTL | ||
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