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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
Quick PvZ questions -
Are there any main timings I should send a Hallu. Phoenix into the Zerg base to spot for a spire? I currently use a build which flat out loses to muta play (It's my main PvZ issue so I wanna force myself to be in a tough spot so I know what to do in a worst case scenario) if unscouted. I'm guessing that there will be 2 main timings for 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch muta to scout - anyone mind informing me?
Also I'm assuming that after that I should really start getting air anyways, or at least the capability to make air.
(Ohbtw, I forgot to thank the people who answered my last question - so thanks <3)
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Italy12247 Posts
Muta switches are actually random as shit. Other than 2base muta and 3base into muta, he could be going for hydra pressure into muta, or even doing a 200/200 push, trading efficiently and burning his whole bank on mutas. Combined with the fact that people on ladder do the most random things ever (at all levels of play), you really want to be scouting ALL THE TIME. I'd send a phoenix like every 60-90 seconds or so.
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Italy12247 Posts
It's not just the spire, it's the spire+unit count+what he's producing.
Scenario 1: he did a hydra push, now you scout a spire but he doesnt have any more roach/hydra on the map and flying over his rally point you only see a handful of units, plus no hive started. This feels like muta.
Scenario 2: he did a hydra push, you scout a spire, you see either more lair tech units being made or a hive started. His hydra/ling is still on the map. This is more likely to be corruptor/viper.
I agree it's super hard and annoying as shit, but there's more things to consider other than simply seeing a spire, which as you said isn't nearly enough.
That said, there's a good reason why everyone is doing that 3star/6void ray opening right now. Having the 3stargates already up looks a bit stronger than being on a single stargate, heading into colossus tech with 5 phoenixes maximum already up.
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Wait, which opening is this? My PvZ vs. Mutas is absolutely awful, can you give me a quick rundown if it's not against the rules? Alternatively, if it is against the rules, is there a VOD I could check out that showcases the build?
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Hi TL
I need some help with gateway expanding vs zerg, that i have recently started with.
My biggest problem is doing it safe enough, so does anyone have any good BO's out there?
My main issue is getting the wall up in time, without cutting workers etc. On most maps u need 2 pylons and 3 buildings
to complete the wall. So quite alot of money if he tries to be very agressive
It seems like this opening is triggering many zergs to just mass lings off 16-20 drones and kill me before i get my wall up 
I would like to know one 1g exp stargate opening, and one 1g exp into 4g opening
Im also wondering if its good or not to add the stargate in the wall?
I get the wall completed earlier, but reveals my tech very early. But is this really a problem,
since im only going to force some spores, try to snipe queens, scout etc
with some phoenixes anyway.
And how early do you get the forge with a SG opener?
Appreciate any help i can get 
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Italy12247 Posts
Sos' games vs Soulkey at wcs for example.
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On June 10 2013 21:41 hersimp wrote:Hi TL I need some help with gateway expanding vs zerg, that i have recently started with. My biggest problem is doing it safe enough, so does anyone have any good BO's out there? My main issue is getting the wall up in time, without cutting workers etc. On most maps u need 2 pylons and 3 buildings to complete the wall. So quite alot of money if he tries to be very agressive It seems like this opening is triggering many zergs to just mass lings off 16-20 drones and kill me before i get my wall up I would like to know one 1g exp stargate opening, and one 1g exp into 4g opening Im also wondering if its good or not to add the stargate in the wall? I get the wall completed earlier, but reveals my tech very early. But is this really a problem, since im only going to force some spores, try to snipe queens, scout etc with some phoenixes anyway. And how early do you get the forge with a SG opener? Appreciate any help i can get
Check Sos vs Symbol at WCS S1 Final:
Symbol vs sOs
Game 1: Sos open 1gate FE into fast Stargate (the stargate is in the wall) and make forge after 4th pylon
Game 2: Sos open 1gate FE into 4gate
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Actually...is this 3 Stargates off two bases, or FFE into Stargate into 3 Stargates off 3 bases? I haven't seen the former, but I have seen the latter already.
Bonus question: How do you FFE on Korhal Sky Island in the north-west or south-east positions?
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 10 2013 22:32 Salivanth wrote:
Actually...is this 3 Stargates off two bases, or FFE into Stargate into 3 Stargates off 3 bases? I haven't seen the former, but I have seen the latter already.
The latter, yes. No way to afford triple SG off 2 bases.
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Yeah, I thought that, but I was confused when "opener" was being used. Didn't realise openers could go for that long
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Quick question: which maps do you keep on veto in the new season? Any of the new ones particularly bad for P in your opinion?
Thanks <3
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So, I've never veto'd ladder maps before, but Korhal Sky Island.. holy crap. Do you play PvZ on this map if it's 11/5 positioning? Even if you manage to take the third out, the Zerg can expand on the opposite side, and there's no way you can march up that ramp.
Even worse, the map layout with those spawns means the OLs have such a tiny space that they actually need to scout, and how retarded Mutas will be on this map is crazy; they can go from harass to defending harass incredibly easily. What's an actual non cheesy game plan for this map?
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 11 2013 02:02 Supah wrote:
What's an actual non cheesy game plan for this map?
Being Liquid'HerO.
... but yeah, I vetoed it right away. It's not a protoss map.
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Italy12247 Posts
Regarding Korhal Skyu Island, monk tells me one cannon can cover both ramps.
I'm going to veto that one, derelict watcher because it's a goddamn football field, and newkirk because i played enough games on Shakuras, thank you very much.
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Austria24422 Posts
Looked through the OP and didn't find anything. Basically... how do you not die to a mass bio attack on your third if terran opens with a greedy 3rd CC and double ebay?
I've died every time I tried going colossus as that just opens me up even more to the already ridiculously strong bio/viking timing. So I'm going 2 base templar against it but once they mix in hellbats I really have no clue what I'm supposed to be doing against it.
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Italy12247 Posts
You need to match his greed and try to take a faster third, or hit some kind of timing. If he's going both 3cc AND double ebay he wont have a meaningful medivac count to threaten you for a long time. With a 2base templar opening, you could try this and see how it works out: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413873 , on paper it should do quite ok (and it's a great variation on 2base templar anyway).
Vs hellbats if you are going templar i think you might have to mix in archons and/or switch to a single robo worth of colossus a little faster. I'm trying to figure out the exact reaction myself still. sOs vs ForGG on Bel'shir Vestige is a good game to look at to learn how to deal with hellbats.
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Quick question: Is this new style of tempests (WCS Finals,Proleague last night) actually a viable strategy for lower level players vs T? And will it be used more often in high level games?
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Austria24422 Posts
I could see it being used more often as a build you throw into the mix once in a boX series. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone below masters. You really have to have good unit control, positioning and macro to pull this one off or standard MMM will run you over.
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EPT
