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On June 11 2013 16:52 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 15:56 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 11 2013 15:28 samuu wrote:
What gate units did he had?
If he has mass zealot then kite his army and kill his colossi after that.
I also think that you probably didnt focus with vikings.
Because usually the vikings kill most of the colossi before they die to the phoenix. Next to none. 3 sentries? Few zealots? In WoL that means doom to colossus, but in HotS you can throw down 2 timewarps and 3 forcefields and bio won't do shit. It was 8-9 colossus and I think at least 20 phoenix Dayum that's an insane amount of tech units, how many stargates and robos did i he have? Did you push at all during the game before maxing? I feel like you kinda let him get to a critical mass of colossi untouched at which point as you said your shit just melts, but 9 colossi take a long ass time to mass. Also it sounds odd that he would have +3 to your 3/2, i always figured phoenix/colo would just get +2 by the time terran first maxes but from what you say your first engagement was pretty late into the game. In general though i haven't seen anyone really doing much phoenix/colossus so i can't comment. Both thors and ghosts to EMP the phoenixes sound like a good idea, with EMP probably being the best since you don't have to deviate at all from your standard play.
I did timing push when I saw him taking his third, did damage, didn't kill him. But he revealed his phoenix there. I lost my anti-air support (marines) in the fight, so my medivacs got shred to shit in the engagement... so it took a while to build up again. Didn't go smooth at all, guess I just ran into meta. With standard bio-builds I could have pressured and traded earlier.
PS: Don't spread that blink shit, :D you mofo! :[ So hard to deal with
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Italy12246 Posts
Hehe, as i said, i'm an asshole :D
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Hey guys, stil a noob at this game, can someone give me the build order for 1 gate FE in HoTS against T and also i guess against P.
9 pylon
13 gate
15 gas
16 pylon
18 core
(3 chronos on probes before this)
19 zealot
22 pylon
Stalker after zealot and wg research when possible
not sure after this, when do i get MSC? nexus? what about a second stalker? or should it be a sentry? do i even get a zealot?
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On June 11 2013 21:02 sebsejr wrote:
Hey guys, stil a noob at this game, can someone give me the build order for 1 gate FE in HoTS against T and also i guess against P.
9 pylon
13 gate
15 gas
16 pylon
18 core
(3 chronos on probes before this)
19 zealot
22 pylon
Stalker after zealot and wg research when possible
not sure after this, when do i get MSC? nexus? what about a second stalker? or should it be a sentry? do i even get a zealot?
If you search on the first pages of the thread you will find a few build orders.
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I'm completely at a loss at how to deal with muta/corruptor with mass speedling support. Phoenix is feels entirely useless if they zone right with corruptors and if that happens then I die because the mutas run show and kill everything. White-Ra just got steamrolled by it on his stream too a couple times today. I saw the games with this composition on WCS it looked insanely powerful there too. Has anyone found a general solution to this type of play? I am at a complete loss. I really don't want to start having to do stupid all-ins again in this matchup but it feels like that is the way to go. Either do soul push, man train, 2 immortal/2 colossus or die.
Also, been opening 1gate expand into 3gate stargate PvT and then going into phoenix/colossus. It seems to be working and is a lot of fun. I've been seeing so many hellbat drops that with this build I can get a huge advantage against that and against regular play it still works well.
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On June 11 2013 21:02 sebsejr wrote:
Hey guys, stil a noob at this game, can someone give me the build order for 1 gate FE in HoTS against T and also i guess against P.
9 pylon
13 gate
15 gas
16 pylon
18 core
(3 chronos on probes before this)
19 zealot
22 pylon
Stalker after zealot and wg research when possible
not sure after this, when do i get MSC? nexus? what about a second stalker? or should it be a sentry? do i even get a zealot?
Vs. T:
Chrono x3 on probes.
9 pylon 13 gate 14 gas. (You should be able to get the gas on 14 with no probe cut with correct probe stacking.)
16 pylon, 18 core, 19 zealot. 21 Nexus. (If he doesn't block your expansion, cancel the Zealot to get the Nexus down quicker.)
Mothership Core (Chrono'd) + Warpgate.
Assimilator, Pylon, Stalker.
After this, get a fast Robo and then get 2 gates as soon as you can afford it without cutting probes. Transition into 2-base tech of choice.
Vs. P:
There are several ways to 1-gate expand vs. Protoss. This is only one of them. I highly recommend not doing this on 2p maps, it's nearly impossible to hold proxy stargate play.
Chrono x2 on probes.
9 pylon, 13 gate, 14 gas, 16 pylon, 17 core, 18 gas.
First gateway: Zealot, Sentry, Stalker.
Get the MsC as you get your Stalker.
30 Nexus, expanding off Zealot, Sentry, Stalker, MsC. Throw down 2 gates and a robo super fast, cutting probes to do so. I like to get a second sentry while the Nexus is building as well. Then defend whatever comes at you. If he expands, transition into whatever midgame you've chosen.
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Hey there. I suggested a fast expansion (nexus + mothershipcore before 1st stalker) to a friend as I encounted it often on ladder and I think its pretty good and save. Unfortunately I cannot find a build order for it. Can anyone help me out?
Usually the MSC pops a second after my reaper enters their base and the nexus is started by that time. Zelaot+Stalker skipped. would be great :-)
Ah - the guy above me I think explained it :D thx
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Hi,
How should I react to a Factory in my main pumping Widow Mines into a 1base all-in with Marauders, Medivacs and Marines?
Nexus Cannon doesn't simply hold the MMM force and I am delayed in my own tech (more importantly gas mining) because of having to pull probes off of the mineral lines for a while so I can get the WM shot soaked up with a Probe so I can continue mining for another 40 seconds.
I open up with 1 gate FE with a quick 5min Robo for Obs, but still the Widow Mines were able to deny mining time and make my probes run around, while the followup was too strong for pure non-upgraded Gateway force, I feel.
Also, how should I react to Zerg going 14 Pool, Gas and then expo & Baneling Nest? I overcommitted in defense (and he did nothing with his banes nest)
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On June 12 2013 17:19 Type|NarutO wrote:
Hey there. I suggested a fast expansion (nexus + mothershipcore before 1st stalker) to a friend as I encounted it often on ladder and I think its pretty good and save. Unfortunately I cannot find a build order for it. Can anyone help me out?
Usually the MSC pops a second after my reaper enters their base and the nexus is started by that time. Zelaot+Stalker skipped. would be great :-)
Ah - the guy above me I think explained it :D thx
9 Pylon
13 Gate
15 Gas
16 Pylon
-> Core @ 100% Gate
-> MSC with first 100 Gas
-> Nexus with 400 Mins (around 3:50 - 4:00), 16 or 17 probes at main
-> WG research & stalker after the nexus
Chronoboosts on Probes only
That's basically my opening. I mostly go into double forge & colossi after that.
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On June 12 2013 17:19 Type|NarutO wrote:
Hey there. I suggested a fast expansion (nexus + mothershipcore before 1st stalker) to a friend as I encounted it often on ladder and I think its pretty good and save. Unfortunately I cannot find a build order for it. Can anyone help me out?
Usually the MSC pops a second after my reaper enters their base and the nexus is started by that time. Zelaot+Stalker skipped. would be great :-)
Ah - the guy above me I think explained it :D thx
If any protosses followed Naniwa's PvZ 1gate FE, this is the identical build order. It's basically the same as above posters build-order, but he does a 14gas in order to start Warp Gate and MsC about at the same time.
14gas -> 17core -> (fake zealot/cancel) -> nexus on 20th probe rallied -> MsC\WarpGate. As Teotita mentioned MsC goes before Nexus in this build PvT, but I think map-size\greediness can make it a judgement call.
Also, I have a question. In regards to Hellion\Hellbat\Widowmine drop openings, is there any merit in scouting with the gateway probe? I feel that I will be doing the same opening/build regardless of what I scout. (as opposed to scouting e.g. with the nexus probe.)
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On June 12 2013 17:19 Type|NarutO wrote:
Hey there. I suggested a fast expansion (nexus + mothershipcore before 1st stalker) to a friend as I encounted it often on ladder and I think its pretty good and save. Unfortunately I cannot find a build order for it. Can anyone help me out?
Usually the MSC pops a second after my reaper enters their base and the nexus is started by that time. Zelaot+Stalker skipped. would be great :-)
Ah - the guy above me I think explained it :D thx
Yeah, the build I mentioned has exactly that Mothership Core timing, so that's the one you're looking for.
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Also, I have a question. In regards to Hellion\Hellbat\Widowmine drop openings, is there any merit in scouting with the gateway probe? I feel that I will be doing the same opening/build regardless of what I scout. (as opposed to scouting e.g. with the nexus probe.)
No, but you can scout it with your MSC. Your reaction should be 3-4 stalker + attention on minimap.
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On June 12 2013 22:24 TokO wrote:Also, I have a question. In regards to Hellion\Hellbat\Widowmine drop openings, is there any merit in scouting with the gateway probe? I feel that I will be doing the same opening/build regardless of what I scout. (as opposed to scouting e.g. with the nexus probe.)
I always 13 scout in PvT if I'm honest. I've seen countless factories after the first marine even at masters level with my probe which is pretty huge. I always go for a very fast robo then and try to block my ramp with 2 stalkers (in case of hellions). I just keep warping stalkers and try to keep them spread out at my mineral lines then.
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Regarding to the new ladder map Korhal Floating Island, how should your play change when you spawn 11-5? I'm loving that map but that spawn really makes the game kinda wonky, especially in PvZ.
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Italy12246 Posts
The PvT version of MsC expand goes MsC before nexus to time it when a reaper arrives, the PvZ version goes nexus before MsC afaik.
Also i always core scout in PvT, all i'm really looking for these days is a low ground bunker; the rest of the info i get from the standard zealot/stalker poke. Being able to always go 1gate into robo is also very helpful in PvT early game.
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United States4883 Posts
On June 13 2013 00:12 xAdra wrote:
Regarding to the new ladder map Korhal Floating Island, how should your play change when you spawn 11-5? I'm loving that map but that spawn really makes the game kinda wonky, especially in PvZ.
Dude, that spawn is SO screwed up lolol. The best thing I can suggest is doing a safe 1-gate FE into a turtle style. Those spawns are so precarious that you really can't get away with a razor thin defense to do a big all-in or anything. That particular location lends itself to tempest turtling, at least.
Also, question of my own: I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with the plethora of options terran is throwing at me early game. In WoL I would always open up with 1-gate FE into 3-gate/robo, the standard. I would always deviate and get a stargate instead of a robo when I scouted gas because phoenixes shut down 1-1-1 and drops pretty strong. However, now with terrans opening gas in every game, there's a bit of uncertainty if they're just going to go for a reaper into normal bio play or if they're going to do mine drops or hellbat drops or something wonky like biomech. How is everyone adjusting to this change? Is the only good way to play a defensive, passive defense getting up that early forge for cannons? Going for more stargate play?
2nd question: I don't encounter this often, but I'm still not entirely sure about the response. What is the best response upon scouting mech with your first observer? I've died a few times to marine/widow mine/tank attacks and I'm just not sure what the best response is. I've tried speed prism/immortal drops and going double robo colossus/immortal. Is there a better way?
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What's the optimal response to a 13 pool? Is there anyway to take advantage of this kind of opening? Last but not least, is it possible to prevent lings from getting inside your base with good reflexes if you don't pylon scout (assuming you left a probe at the entrance to your natural)?
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Italy12246 Posts
Pretty sure you can just go forge before nexus and be completely fine. Also yeah if you leave a probe at the entrance you should get your full wall up in time if you're careful.
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On June 13 2013 03:38 Teoita wrote:
Pretty sure you can just go forge before nexus and be completely fine. Also yeah if you leave a probe at the entrance you should get your full wall up in time if you're careful.
I wonder if it wouldn't be better for zergs to go 13 pool to force a later nexus instead 14 pool. I bet it's worse for the protoss than it is for the zerg. Also, the chance of getting zerglings in when the protoss doesn't scout (or arrives too late to notice it, say on a 4 player map) or thinks it's a 14 pool seems to make it really worth doing. I wonder why we don't see this that much on maps like whirlwind.
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Hi all,
I had a game recently which I lost. And I'm having some trouble trying to analyze it. I'd like some help as to what I should have done this game.
http://drop.sc/341752
In this game, I took a good bit of damage early on due to widow mine drops. In general, I really do need to work on my minimap awareness. But the terran's economy was also delayed, and so I felt that the game position was even enough after the openings.
I feel that I lost the game to the terran's first push, which destroyed my third. As we took our thirds, the terran pulled ahead of me in supply, though I kept my money low. This gave him a bigger army, which I couldn't fight. I'm thinking that this might be due to the greater investment I spent to try and defend my third (with cannons, to defend from drops... not as useful against tanks). I spent 1200 minerals on my third, while the terran spent 750 minerals on theirs. What should I do differently to defend my third with less investment? What should I have done to defend the push? More immortals?
Maybe I could have gotten back into the game after I broke the contain, but the terran had a far superior economy, and I lacked the colossi count necessary. How should I have played differently after I lost my third?
Thanks for any help.
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