EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 108
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
On May 31 2013 17:56 Teoita wrote: For what it's worth, gateway pressure>>DT builds if done right are basically unstoppable if your opponents are not high master (ish) because people just have god awful mechanics and can't scout to save their lives. It's also one of my go-to bullshit builds for cw's if i want to scare the hell out of people. Awesome. Would you happen to have any replays of this? | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On May 31 2013 20:21 Teoita wrote: Yeah pretty much. The whole point of queens with sh's is to kill observers, not transfuse. They actually do that with ultras a lot though The way I see it is, on split map types, mass queens are way better at shutting down air than anything else. If you can't make air units or really ever envision transitioning to air, and they can instantly transfuse any swarm hosts that get hit with storm or w/e, then there doesn't seem to be many great options available. Against other compositions, at least you can utilize your bank to alternate between extremes (mass ground or air) and push harder once you have some units down on hp. I don't know about this observer stuff. Any composition they get should be pretty decent at sniping observers. I mean they have no hp and their range isn't that great. It's hard enough to even deal with spores plus swarm hosts, without the observers dying. I just think games are 200000x easier when there's no mass queens involved. The ridiculous creep spread alone makes it way more annoying. I'd rather immobile units stay immobile, than be mobile and invincible. I'd like to see reps vs mass queens (not the make immortals and win vs ultra + queen). | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On May 31 2013 21:12 Salivanth wrote: Awesome. Would you happen to have any replays of this? I don't have any replays vs good players, but...i hereby introduce you to the sheer LOLBULLSHITAWESOMESAUCE that is The Tasteless Build 2.0: http://drop.sc/339335 True displays of sheer Protoss opness and bullshit. ps: the 1.0 version is off FFE, kinda similar to what smurf posted. | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
First question is about hotkeys (I know it's preference, but I wanna hear what you guys do anyways). In a scenario where you have HTs, a main army and a momma core, do you hotkey the mothership core to your main army or to a seperate one? I keep mine seperate, but it seems that I always forget about it and it ends up just being a waste of supply for me, but I can imagine that if it's in my main army I could be slow on hitting FFs or Guardian Shields on my sentries (something I seem to forget anyways, so much to learn in this game -_-). My main issue is that (I use the core hotkeys, so I've changed it into standard so it makes more sense) I find it annoying to go 1 (Main army) - Amove; 2 (HTs) - move; 3 (MC) - move; 4 (Secondary army/harrass/whatever) - Amove. I just feel that is a lot of work and end up forgetting - just want to know people's opinions on how to hotkey the MC. 2nd question - I hear alot about spreading HTs across the map in PvT, I was just wondering if people could give me some examples of how/when to do this? I've done it once in a single game, where I could predict that the enemy was likely to go through a certain choke and just put a HT there, ready. I still lost that game though (Mine drops with no detection = sad protoss for the rest of that game) so I don't know how effective it really was. Basically, any examples in VODs or just hypothetical scenarios (I can actually imagine that if someone could draw dots with paint on a map that'd help me, but I'm not sure if I'm asking too much here :p) of when to put HTs on the map. High Diamond player, btw. Thanks in advance <3 | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Generally, you do it when you can afford to mass them, ie 3+ base economy and under no pressure. msc: i use more or less your same setup. Just gotta get used to it. It's a lot of work, but then again, think about bw players going 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a0a in maxed battles  | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 01 2013 00:38 ThyLastPenguin wrote: Okay, I got 2 questions. First question is about hotkeys (I know it's preference, but I wanna hear what you guys do anyways). In a scenario where you have HTs, a main army and a momma core, do you hotkey the mothership core to your main army or to a seperate one? I keep mine seperate, but it seems that I always forget about it and it ends up just being a waste of supply for me, but I can imagine that if it's in my main army I could be slow on hitting FFs or Guardian Shields on my sentries (something I seem to forget anyways, so much to learn in this game -_-). My main issue is that (I use the core hotkeys, so I've changed it into standard so it makes more sense) I find it annoying to go 1 (Main army) - Amove; 2 (HTs) - move; 3 (MC) - move; 4 (Secondary army/harrass/whatever) - Amove. I just feel that is a lot of work and end up forgetting - just want to know people's opinions on how to hotkey the MC. 2nd question - I hear alot about spreading HTs across the map in PvT, I was just wondering if people could give me some examples of how/when to do this? I've done it once in a single game, where I could predict that the enemy was likely to go through a certain choke and just put a HT there, ready. I still lost that game though (Mine drops with no detection = sad protoss for the rest of that game) so I don't know how effective it really was. Basically, any examples in VODs or just hypothetical scenarios (I can actually imagine that if someone could draw dots with paint on a map that'd help me, but I'm not sure if I'm asking too much here :p) of when to put HTs on the map. High Diamond player, btw. Thanks in advance <3 1) In the later stages of the game when you need hotkeys for HT and blink stalkers and things like that, just put the MsC on a follow command behind a colossus. This way it's always with your army but doesn't interfere with your hotkeys. You should also do this with an observer and a warp prism. 2) Generally this just means spreading them out across your bases. Once I get to 3-4 bases, I have 2-3 templar at each base (except main). In addition, if I'm being aggressive, I'll warp in some forward HTs to build up energy and just retreat in that direction if things start looking bad. If you're talking about flanking with HTs like PartinG does, just get a good idea of where the terran army is and run a HT (un-hotkeyed) the opposite way that you're posturing your army. | ||
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dimomarg
Greece11 Posts
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chindy
82 Posts
On June 01 2013 06:48 dimomarg wrote: I need some help. I'm a gold league Protoss, but each time I get DT rushed, I get owned. the problem is I'm never given the opportunity to scout the shrine. So can someone suggest a build that counters the DT rush and can be used even if I'm not expecting DT-s? User was warned for this post why was he wared for this post? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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chindy
82 Posts
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Heheggg
United States2 Posts
For example in Bel'shir vestige, you are getting a quick 3rd, and saw that 2 medivacs are flying across the 4th base right of your natural, where should your army be placed and what the response team should be? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 01 2013 13:09 Heheggg wrote: How many observers should I keep to watch for drops? And how many stalkers/zealots should be needed as a response team? what are ways to response faster such as the army placement when you are getting a early 3rd? For example in Bel'shir vestige, you are getting a quick 3rd, and saw that 2 medivacs are flying across the 4th base right of your natural, where should your army be placed and what the response team should be? You generally need 3-4 observers: 1 to sit outside his natural and scout out his moveout + when he takes a 3rd base, 1 to sit somewhere between your natural and main (though this observer is easy to spot and generally taken out), and then 1 on each side of the map in dead space to catch drops. 2 stalkers/4-5 zealots are generally a good response team. Some pros seem to be incorporating an immortal into the mixture to prevent double marauder drops from just sniping your nexus. If you get blind-sided without units in position, the best response is 2 templar + zealots, double feedback and instant archon. In a situation like that, you want your army positioned somewhere between your natural and 3rd and have some kind of spotter outside your 3rd (if not an observer, at least an idle probe or a zealot just to make sure he doesn't run in and kill your nexus off before you can get there). Also, having at least 1 cannon at your 3rd will help to slow down the bio SOME, but remember that it's a sacrificial cannon to buy you time. You want to split off a few units (2 stalkers/a couple zealots/immortal) to deal with the drop in the main. EDIT: Sidenote: In later stages of the game, make sure you're lining the sides of the map with pylons to keep track of drops, create warpin points for harassment, and to spot for expansions. | ||
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endahlol
United States3 Posts
Im top 15 bronze atm, (yea please DONT assume that was a boast, just giving you an idea of the skill level of myself and my competition). With that said, ive won the past several games as i have become a lot more fluid with 4 gate blinkstalker openings, to the point where my last 3 games have been 10min GGs. MY PROBLEM IS: After the initial DT or blinkstalker in, what should i be focusing on? I had a match where i literally cleared out a terran's entire mineral like 5 times, and he still turtled long enough to out macro me. As i said, my macro right now is fairly garbage, its an afterthought when i start microing several groups of blink stalkers, but assuming my macro becomes better, WHAT should i be focusing on building? So far my tech order is usually this -> cybercore -> twilight counsel + 4-6 more gates -> blink (OR Darkshrine for DT harass)... So whats next  ? At this point i DONT have a robo up, nor a stargate, for future reference.Help is appreciated | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On June 01 2013 14:31 endahlol wrote: I have a question regarding mid-game v terran. Im top 15 bronze atm, (yea please DONT assume that was a boast, just giving you an idea of the skill level of myself and my competition). With that said, ive won the past several games as i have become a lot more fluid with 4 gate blinkstalker openings, to the point where my last 3 games have been 10min GGs. MY PROBLEM IS: After the initial DT or blinkstalker in, what should i be focusing on? I had a match where i literally cleared out a terran's entire mineral like 5 times, and he still turtled long enough to out macro me. As i said, my macro right now is fairly garbage, its an afterthought when i start microing several groups of blink stalkers, but assuming my macro becomes better, WHAT should i be focusing on building? So far my tech order is usually this -> cybercore -> twilight counsel + 4-6 more gates -> blink (OR Darkshrine for DT harass)... So whats next ? At this point i DONT have a robo up, nor a stargate, for future reference.Help is appreciated A nexus, more workers = more income, more income = stable unit production out of more facilities and quicker teching | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 01 2013 14:31 endahlol wrote: I have a question regarding mid-game v terran. Im top 15 bronze atm, (yea please DONT assume that was a boast, just giving you an idea of the skill level of myself and my competition). With that said, ive won the past several games as i have become a lot more fluid with 4 gate blinkstalker openings, to the point where my last 3 games have been 10min GGs. MY PROBLEM IS: After the initial DT or blinkstalker in, what should i be focusing on? I had a match where i literally cleared out a terran's entire mineral like 5 times, and he still turtled long enough to out macro me. As i said, my macro right now is fairly garbage, its an afterthought when i start microing several groups of blink stalkers, but assuming my macro becomes better, WHAT should i be focusing on building? So far my tech order is usually this -> cybercore -> twilight counsel + 4-6 more gates -> blink (OR Darkshrine for DT harass)... So whats next ? At this point i DONT have a robo up, nor a stargate, for future reference.Help is appreciated Please take this as solid advice: Throw out that garbage build and learn this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414344. It's a PvP build, but you can use it exactly the same way in PvT. To transition into the midgame, you want to build a nexus when you get high on minerals and a robo when you can afford it. From here, simply going for a colossus/stalker army is probably your best option. Seriously, open up a practice game and practice this build 10 times (pausing when you need to in order to look at the build order) and make sure you're getting blink before 7:40 and hitting all the probe benchmarks. Doing this will allow you to roll bronze leaguers. Sidenote: if you clean out your opponent's mineral line and he still hasn't left the game, you should immediately start scouting the remaining bases on the map to make sure he didn't just rebuild somewhere else. | ||
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endahlol
United States3 Posts
I will favorite and practice this till i become as good as a bronze hero can become | ||
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