EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 70
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
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jbuck92
United States13 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:11 Decendos wrote: how to deal with T once they get 10-15 mines? cant get any cost efficient trades with ling bane muta once they have that many mines + drilling claws. The only I've found to do in that situation is do run bys with a small # of lings. Try to get the mines to explode on his army. If he is containing you with them and his army is no where nearby, then detonate all of the mines and clean them up real fast. It's a pain in the rear for sure though. Especially when the terran is dropping on top of the mine contain. | ||
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KaiserKieran
United States615 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:15 jbuck92 wrote: The only I've found to do in that situation is do run bys with a small # of lings. Try to get the mines to explode on his army. If he is containing you with them and his army is no where nearby, then detonate all of the mines and clean them up real fast. It's a pain in the rear for sure though. Especially when the terran is dropping on top of the mine contain. hm yeah thats whats the real problem. he has many rines with him + medivac support so simply triggering mines isnt possible since either you send in 1-4 lings and they dont trigger mine or send in more and trade ineffective. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On June 19 2013 00:39 keimag23 wrote: And what do I do when I dont want to all in? Is there any way of securing a third relativly in time? You could open (double upgraded) roaches. You just have to create a runby-proof wall (evos, spine and some roaches) and have roaches at your third base as well. Once you move out, don't abandon your simcity. Also keep a few banelings around so ling counters are a lot weaker. You do have to hit before ultras are out though, or you're dead. | ||
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jbuck92
United States13 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:46 Decendos wrote: hm yeah thats whats the real problem. he has many rines with him + medivac support so simply triggering mines isnt possible since either you send in 1-4 lings and they dont trigger mine or send in more and trade ineffective. Send in 6-8 lings then. Thats 300-400 minerals for the chance to detonate many more rines/medivacs. Dont attack move them. Just move command them PAST the terran army, so when the mines detonate they'll go into the clump. | ||
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:27 KaiserKieran wrote: Why don't us Zergs have sexy OPs like Protoss and Terran? Like people answering questions is great and all but it is hard to find organized information on stopping strategies/ go to builds for other races. lol OP delivers. | ||
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jbuck92
United States13 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:47 Vestige wrote: what is the best way to keep pressure on a turtling protoss during midgame? i feel like i get my 3 bases up and start producing units but its not enough to put any pressure on him from taking his 3rd, so he just turtles to VR/Collos deathball and just A-moves over everything. Macro hatcheries for more larva. Then try to trade as effectively as you can, remax your army, then put more pressure and keep trading effectively. If you can force enough damage, he won't have the sustained economy for a deathball. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
This was highly coincidental. It was mostly about finding a good player who would donate some of his valuable time to help the cause. Everyone welcome QuanticMassan! | ||
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MaSsan
United States143 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:43 jbuck92 wrote: Send in 6-8 lings then. Thats 300-400 minerals for the chance to detonate many more rines/medivacs. Dont attack move them. Just move command them PAST the terran army, so when the mines detonate they'll go into the clump. hm well you make it sound A LOT easier than it actually is since vs 15 mines you will need to do this 10 times or so...also if T reacts and just lets 8 marines stay in front of mines the 8 lings will die again before triggering mine. its basically impossible to trade efficiently with ling bane muta vs mass mines if T splits mines and marines...and the thing is he has a lot of time to split because he can split preemptively and then unburrow 2-3 mines and slowpush forwared. i got no problem with marine mine medivac if he has up to 8 mines or if i can catch him on the map. but if T manages to set up with 10+ mines in front of bases i have no idea how to deal with it (well losing 30 ovis to trigger mines would be an option lol). | ||
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BatesCsC
United States99 Posts
On June 19 2013 03:25 1MaSsan wrote: Hi. I'll be working on this thread from now and on. Feel free to ask question continuously as you did before! Sick city dude, really helps. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On June 19 2013 03:25 1MaSsan wrote: Hi. I'll be working on this thread from now and on. Feel free to ask question continuously as you did before! It was a pleasure running the OP for the last few months, but I couldn't keep up with the time demands of running this thread. Give MasSan lots of love - it take a lot of effort/motivation to run the Zerg Help Me. I'll still be here to answer Qs from time to time though ! | ||
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Efemral
Australia67 Posts
I'm developing my own little early game strike and have a couple of questions. It's a quick 2 base with 32 drones on minerals and 12 on gas roach/hydra +1 upgrade timing. Very straight forward. 1) Keeping in mind I'm only getting one evo, which +1 upgrade should I get (out of carapace or missile attack) vs each race? 2) Keeping in mind I'm being aggressive, which upgrade should come first for the hydras, speed or range? (Here is a replay of me working it out against AI if you're interested - but probably not necessary.) Thanks so much!!! | ||
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jbuck92
United States13 Posts
On June 19 2013 04:17 Decendos wrote: hm well you make it sound A LOT easier than it actually is since vs 15 mines you will need to do this 10 times or so...also if T reacts and just lets 8 marines stay in front of mines the 8 lings will die again before triggering mine. its basically impossible to trade efficiently with ling bane muta vs mass mines if T splits mines and marines...and the thing is he has a lot of time to split because he can split preemptively and then unburrow 2-3 mines and slowpush forwared. i got no problem with marine mine medivac if he has up to 8 mines or if i can catch him on the map. but if T manages to set up with 10+ mines in front of bases i have no idea how to deal with it (well losing 30 ovis to trigger mines would be an option lol). Oh I know it sounds easier than it really is. Believe me. I have the same issues. It's always either trying to bait detonations, or trying to fungal the army on top of mines and forcing a full on confrontation. Then you end up throwing away almost your entire army, but if you have a better econ you can remax faster. Not exactly ideal either, but sometimes it works. | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
My understanding is something like Pool > hatch > gas > speed > bane > spine > 2nd gas > lair/evo > third > roach + hydra den + infestation pit in that order while producing roaches till 130-150 supply > roach hydra festor > SH hydra festor BL/corruptor in the late game? General timings would be nice. Also, how do I get good vs ling/bane aggressions ZvZ? I get a blind spine and I don't wall and have 2 banelings on D regardless but I'm unsure of how many banes to produce based on how many lings I see, I also am unsure of when to spine. I feel like in diamond/low masters I can just produce 2-3 extra spines vs aggression and be completely fine economically because my opponent will likely overcommit + macro slip? Also ZvT : Seems like multiple macro hatches and mass ling/roach/bane into muta into festor/ultra+static is the way to go, and simply MASS lings with some roach, some bane and some mutas? I really like roach play and sometimes opt for some speed + burrow roach that I can use to poke and then heal up after the fight, rather than fast muta? Is this okay ? I leave a small squad of ling/bane in my main + most vulnerable expo to deny drops till static or muta. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
On June 19 2013 08:51 S7EFEN wrote: Can someone describe to be how an extremely standard macro ZvZ should play out? My understanding is something like Pool > hatch > gas > speed > bane > spine > 2nd gas > lair/evo > third > roach + hydra den + infestation pit in that order while producing roaches till 130-150 supply > roach hydra festor > SH hydra festor BL/corruptor in the late game? General timings would be nice. Also, how do I get good vs ling/bane aggressions ZvZ? I get a blind spine and I don't wall and have 2 banelings on D regardless but I'm unsure of how many banes to produce based on how many lings I see, I also am unsure of when to spine. I feel like in diamond/low masters I can just produce 2-3 extra spines vs aggression and be completely fine economically because my opponent will likely overcommit + macro slip? Also ZvT : Seems like multiple macro hatches and mass ling/roach/bane into muta into festor/ultra+static is the way to go, and simply MASS lings with some roach, some bane and some mutas? I really like roach play and sometimes opt for some speed + burrow roach that I can use to poke and then heal up after the fight, rather than fast muta? Is this okay ? I leave a small squad of ling/bane in my main + most vulnerable expo to deny drops till static or muta. For ZvZ your game sequence (not really a build order) is pretty good except I normally dont go SH. if youplay it right, infestors best swarm hosts because you can take more bases with infestors if you get them first. Sh suck a defending, so i would only really reccomend them if you know you are ahead of him. For baneling wars, keep the first overlord looking at the edge of his natural for the ling count, but more importantlty if he is moving out. keep enough banelings and lings to deal with his lings, but drone as hard as you can while you are teching to roaches. morph 2 banelings and just rally them to his other zergligns or if he doenst build spines, into his mineral line and basically as soon as you get a big hit, you know you can roach. ZvT, i always go ling blign muta -> ultra bling ling with some infestors. The only time i woudl advise going roaches is vs mech because they simply dont deal enough dps to deal with MMMM. Mutas are pretty good vs mech because the only anti air hell ahve is thors and if you magic box, you should be fine. Also mutas tech switch easier into BL, which you need to beat terran mech. | ||
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eburnsdaniel
United Kingdom69 Posts
My question is what are you supposed to do when you scout the additional factories. I am watching terrans make 3 or 4 cc and defending large numbers of roaches with small numbers of units. They don't wall in, dont build bunkers. They often have extremely low apm. It is very frustrating. | ||
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