• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:17
CET 17:17
KST 01:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1864 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 145

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 143 144 145 146 147 269 Next
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 04:19:33
February 06 2014 04:18 GMT
#2881
On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:
On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt)


Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth.

I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings


Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870.

DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 06 2014 06:18 GMT
#2882
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?
Yorkie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States12612 Posts
February 06 2014 07:23 GMT
#2883
On February 06 2014 13:18 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:
On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:
On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt)


Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth.

I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings


Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870.

DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).

Thanks a lot this is right up my alley. Cheers!
Hwang Kang Hooooooooooo. Follow mah boy Shellshock @Shellshock1122
CommanderS
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany53 Posts
February 06 2014 16:34 GMT
#2884
On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?


An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
February 06 2014 18:46 GMT
#2885
On February 07 2014 01:34 CommanderS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?


An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.


Just to prove how inefficient this strategy is, a masters terran, Ketroc does this ALL the time. I once faced him on ladder as a low diamond zerg and rekt him.
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 06 2014 19:00 GMT
#2886
Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
February 06 2014 19:12 GMT
#2887
On February 07 2014 04:00 zasg wrote:
Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.


It might be just me, but whenever I see a planetary in the natural, the Terran is doing something dumb like mass raven. At this point I just do 1/1 speed roach or roach drop timings whenever I see a planetary in the natural. More often the not (actually almost every time) Terran just has a single bunker of marines, a banshee and a couple ravens. I just walk past the natural and kill the main.
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 06 2014 19:48 GMT
#2888
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!
metasapien
Profile Joined May 2012
United States5 Posts
February 06 2014 21:39 GMT
#2889
Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
sickless
Profile Joined April 2011
Russian Federation36 Posts
February 08 2014 18:56 GMT
#2890
what is the best way to defend 2rax? I do 10 scout 15 hatch 14 pool.
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 08 2014 20:06 GMT
#2891
On February 07 2014 06:39 metasapien wrote:
Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?


6, then 2 at watch towers and 4 scouting his door.
Waise
Profile Joined June 2013
3165 Posts
February 10 2014 00:27 GMT
#2892
On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!

rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 10 2014 03:48 GMT
#2893
On February 10 2014 09:27 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!

rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV


Same thing applies to countering bunker rushes. Gives you early notification. I did it for a very long time, but once I felt I knew how to counter it without needing the overlord I started sending my second OL to his base.
Haku
Profile Joined August 2013
Germany550 Posts
February 10 2014 19:09 GMT
#2894
Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead.
I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason.
1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up.
Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it.

http://drop.sc/373669

Greetings
Jaedong | Life | MKP | PartinG | LosirA | ByuN | TaeJa | TY | TLO | Bomber | HerO | Rotti | Dark | Stephano | Maru | Ragnarok | MC | IdrA | Serral | Creator | Bunny | INnoVation | Liquid | Prime | JinAir
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 02:29:07
February 11 2014 02:28 GMT
#2895
On February 11 2014 04:09 EXRNaRa wrote:
Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead.
I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason.
1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up.
Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it.

http://drop.sc/373669

Greetings


Few notes:

You started second queen late, you should build your second queen at your main after your first one is completed. You missed an inject because of this (4 drones)

This is why you were 10 supply ahead. In sc2 as you get higher little things make more of a difference. At the lower leagues you can make smaller mistakes and providing you make no big mistakes you still win. As you climb the ladder smaller mistakes add up to a loss. + Show Spoiler +
For an example of this see Soulkey vs Stork in last nights proleague semi final. In this match stork makes many small mistakes throughout the game and soulkey just over whelms him with more stuff.


You had some pretty nasty supply blocks between 60 and 80 while aggression was happening.

Looks like your biggest issue is just smoothing out your builds while ZvZ aggression is going on. Missing injects while doing ling/bling battles are going on over thirds will end up costing you the game because you will just get over whelmed. If I was you I would focus on my queen/overlord timings. After each ZvZ check out the replay, zoom through and check your overlord timings and how your queen usage went. If you can iron that out you will quickly see a difference.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 00:34:30
February 12 2014 00:31 GMT
#2896
Yo.

Heavy Rain.

I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.

I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.

LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.

I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.

And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.

Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 12 2014 00:37 GMT
#2897
On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Yo.

Heavy Rain.

I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.

I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.

LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.

I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.

And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.

Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??


Replay please
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 00:42:46
February 12 2014 00:42 GMT
#2898
Didnt safe.

Nor is it relevant to my question.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 12 2014 02:55 GMT
#2899
Since you just want set answers to your questions, here you go.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

No. Protoss do a lot of timings and pressures. If they sit in their base and never leave until maxed you can easily take five bases and destroy them with mutalisks or anything really.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq.


You can easily punish it with a hydra timing, if you tried and failed either you waited to long or macro'd bad and therefore got destroyed. A lot depends on how the game played out, since you do not have a replay it is hard to actually comment.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??


No.
wishr
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation262 Posts
February 12 2014 05:34 GMT
#2900
Just a little question:
When i must choose to go Corruptors vs P, which went colossi?
And when its better to choose vipers?
* Only girls complain about balance! *
Prev 1 143 144 145 146 147 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 292
Codebar 45
MindelVK 37
BRAT_OK 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5258
Horang2 2478
Jaedong 600
EffOrt 327
Soma 284
actioN 244
Mini 240
Rush 210
Mind 102
Hyun 89
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 41
Backho 41
Rock 38
JYJ28
Aegong 23
soO 21
zelot 19
HiyA 16
Terrorterran 15
sorry 9
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4973
qojqva2938
Dendi983
syndereN304
LuMiX1
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor370
Other Games
singsing2090
B2W.Neo1264
Mlord356
Hui .347
Lowko274
Sick248
Fuzer 213
ArmadaUGS105
XcaliburYe72
nookyyy 51
KnowMe24
Trikslyr17
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV922
Counter-Strike
PGL206
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2479
Other Games
• Shiphtur264
Upcoming Events
IPSL
1h 43m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
1h 43m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
3h 43m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
6h 43m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 43m
WardiTV Korean Royale
19h 43m
LAN Event
22h 43m
IPSL
1d 1h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
1d 3h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
1d 16h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 19h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.