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On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt) Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth. I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings
Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870.
DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).
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In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?
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On February 06 2014 13:18 zasg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt) Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth. I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870. DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).
Thanks a lot this is right up my alley. Cheers!
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On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?
An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.
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On February 07 2014 01:34 CommanderS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo? An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.
Just to prove how inefficient this strategy is, a masters terran, Ketroc does this ALL the time. I once faced him on ladder as a low diamond zerg and rekt him.
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Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.
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On February 07 2014 04:00 zasg wrote:
Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.
It might be just me, but whenever I see a planetary in the natural, the Terran is doing something dumb like mass raven. At this point I just do 1/1 speed roach or roach drop timings whenever I see a planetary in the natural. More often the not (actually almost every time) Terran just has a single bunker of marines, a banshee and a couple ravens. I just walk past the natural and kill the main.
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I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!! 
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Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?
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Russian Federation36 Posts
what is the best way to defend 2rax? I do 10 scout 15 hatch 14 pool.
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On February 07 2014 06:39 metasapien wrote:
Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?
6, then 2 at watch towers and 4 scouting his door.
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On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!
rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV
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On February 10 2014 09:27 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!! rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV
Same thing applies to countering bunker rushes. Gives you early notification. I did it for a very long time, but once I felt I knew how to counter it without needing the overlord I started sending my second OL to his base.
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Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead.
I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason.
1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up.
Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it.
http://drop.sc/373669
Greetings
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On February 11 2014 04:09 EXRNaRa wrote:Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead. I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason. 1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up. Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it. http://drop.sc/373669Greetings
Few notes:
You started second queen late, you should build your second queen at your main after your first one is completed. You missed an inject because of this (4 drones)
This is why you were 10 supply ahead. In sc2 as you get higher little things make more of a difference. At the lower leagues you can make smaller mistakes and providing you make no big mistakes you still win. As you climb the ladder smaller mistakes add up to a loss. + Show Spoiler + For an example of this see Soulkey vs Stork in last nights proleague semi final. In this match stork makes many small mistakes throughout the game and soulkey just over whelms him with more stuff.
You had some pretty nasty supply blocks between 60 and 80 while aggression was happening.
Looks like your biggest issue is just smoothing out your builds while ZvZ aggression is going on. Missing injects while doing ling/bling battles are going on over thirds will end up costing you the game because you will just get over whelmed. If I was you I would focus on my queen/overlord timings. After each ZvZ check out the replay, zoom through and check your overlord timings and how your queen usage went. If you can iron that out you will quickly see a difference.
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Yo.
Heavy Rain.
I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.
I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.
LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.
I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.
And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.
Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)
How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??
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On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Yo.
Heavy Rain.
I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.
I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.
LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.
I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.
And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.
Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)
How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??
Replay please
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Didnt safe.
Nor is it relevant to my question.
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Since you just want set answers to your questions, here you go.
On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)
No. Protoss do a lot of timings and pressures. If they sit in their base and never leave until maxed you can easily take five bases and destroy them with mutalisks or anything really.
On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq.
You can easily punish it with a hydra timing, if you tried and failed either you waited to long or macro'd bad and therefore got destroyed. A lot depends on how the game played out, since you do not have a replay it is hard to actually comment.
On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??
No.
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Russian Federation262 Posts
Just a little question:
When i must choose to go Corruptors vs P, which went colossi?
And when its better to choose vipers?
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EPT
