• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:07
CET 22:07
KST 06:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Vitality disbanding their sc2-team How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 battle.net problems BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 BWCL Season 64 Announcement [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1504 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 145

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 143 144 145 146 147 269 Next
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 04:19:33
February 06 2014 04:18 GMT
#2881
On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:
On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt)


Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth.

I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings


Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870.

DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 06 2014 06:18 GMT
#2882
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?
Yorkie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States12612 Posts
February 06 2014 07:23 GMT
#2883
On February 06 2014 13:18 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 07:09 Yorkie wrote:
On February 04 2014 07:26 zasg wrote:
On February 04 2014 04:23 Yorkie wrote:
I need help vs toss on Habitation Station. I have trouble against the fast gold base strategy when I go for fast 3 hatch and if I take my third at the gold it is very easy for them to do some kind of early gateway attack to take it out. I suppose I could just all in all the time but that's not super appealing to me. Any suggestions?
(If this has been asked before I am very sorry just let me know and I will hunt)


Don't take the gold base as your third if you feel you cannot hold the pressure. The fourth base leaves you open to attacks, the map is built that way. If you are not confident in that regard just take the southern third and take gold as a fourth of fifth.

I wasn't so much saying I need help defending my third base, I was saying I need help countering the fast gold base strat from protoss. If i expand to the non-gold third I feel behind, at least until all three of my bases kick in. Basically I'm looking for a response that's not necessarily an all in that would keep me on even footing with a protoss who takes the gold early that doesn't leave me unreasonably vulnerable to early gateway timings


Sorry misread your question. Check out DRG vs herO http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/500929870.

DRG takes the gold base, but you could equally do the same thing he does. Swarm hosts really screw a protoss over when the gold base is his third. Remember that the protoss army is heavily based off gas, so although they have a bit more minerals it should not hurt you as much as say a Terran doing it (MANY MARINES).

Thanks a lot this is right up my alley. Cheers!
Hwang Kang Hooooooooooo. Follow mah boy Shellshock @Shellshock1122
CommanderS
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany53 Posts
February 06 2014 16:34 GMT
#2884
On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?


An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
February 06 2014 18:46 GMT
#2885
On February 07 2014 01:34 CommanderS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 15:18 learning88 wrote:
In ZvT, how do you respond to a terran that blocks your expo with a half finished ebay and then throws down his own expo (while throwing down an ebay at home), and then turning it into a planetary? Do I just take my third instead and then play out a macro game? I tried to baneling bust his expo but that failed...miserably -_-. Maybe I should've baneling busted his main instead of trying to kill his expo?


An ebay-block is annoying but not that big of a deal. Just throw down your pool fist, continue building drones and expand once your first lings killed of the ebay. A terran really should not turn his natural expansion into a planetary. Yes, he is probably safe from every early attack you could throw at him but it is a HUGE sacrifice in terms of eco and tech. You should just take three bases, get a lot of drones and never let him take a third himself (he shouldn't be able to defend it because of less production and later tech). At some point your advantage will be big enough to kill him.


Just to prove how inefficient this strategy is, a masters terran, Ketroc does this ALL the time. I once faced him on ladder as a low diamond zerg and rekt him.
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 06 2014 19:00 GMT
#2886
Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
February 06 2014 19:12 GMT
#2887
On February 07 2014 04:00 zasg wrote:
Ebay block is a fine strat, but it sets both players back. Providing you do not overreact you will be fine if not ahead. I will often take my third or just pool/gas and expand once lings are out. If he goes planetary in his natural he is MASSIVELY behind and you should just macro and win regardless.


It might be just me, but whenever I see a planetary in the natural, the Terran is doing something dumb like mass raven. At this point I just do 1/1 speed roach or roach drop timings whenever I see a planetary in the natural. More often the not (actually almost every time) Terran just has a single bunker of marines, a banshee and a couple ravens. I just walk past the natural and kill the main.
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 06 2014 19:48 GMT
#2888
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!
metasapien
Profile Joined May 2012
United States5 Posts
February 06 2014 21:39 GMT
#2889
Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
sickless
Profile Joined April 2011
Russian Federation36 Posts
February 08 2014 18:56 GMT
#2890
what is the best way to defend 2rax? I do 10 scout 15 hatch 14 pool.
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 08 2014 20:06 GMT
#2891
On February 07 2014 06:39 metasapien wrote:
Ah, that's good to know. How many zerglings do you typically use to kill the ebay?


6, then 2 at watch towers and 4 scouting his door.
Waise
Profile Joined June 2013
3165 Posts
February 10 2014 00:27 GMT
#2892
On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!

rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 10 2014 03:48 GMT
#2893
On February 10 2014 09:27 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 04:48 learning88 wrote:
I see. I guess I was overreacting to the ebay block. Thanks everyone!!

rallying your second OL to your natural helps too, if you don't already do that. dunno if it's meta (is there even an overlord rally meta? lol) but if you play at a level where you're getting ebay blocked there's nothing wrong with it. that way if you see the SCV just staying in your natural waiting to block, you can go pool+overlord or pool+gas while terran just loses mining time on the SCV


Same thing applies to countering bunker rushes. Gives you early notification. I did it for a very long time, but once I felt I knew how to counter it without needing the overlord I started sending my second OL to his base.
Haku
Profile Joined August 2013
Germany550 Posts
February 10 2014 19:09 GMT
#2894
Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead.
I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason.
1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up.
Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it.

http://drop.sc/373669

Greetings
Jaedong | Life | MKP | PartinG | LosirA | ByuN | TaeJa | TY | TLO | Bomber | HerO | Rotti | Dark | Stephano | Maru | Ragnarok | MC | IdrA | Serral | Creator | Bunny | INnoVation | Liquid | Prime | JinAir
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 02:29:07
February 11 2014 02:28 GMT
#2895
On February 11 2014 04:09 EXRNaRa wrote:
Hello everyone, atm i am so unbelivable frustrated in ZvZ because i have always the same problem. I play the Muta Build mentioned in Blades Zerg Guide. In this replay (Like my other recently played ZvZs) at 6min he is 10 Supply ahead.
I don´t get it. Why. How. How can i improve, it just feels bad to not find the reason.
1min later and he is 10 Drones ahead, i do nothing more than droning but i can´t keep up.
Please give me some advice. Sorry for that post but i feel like shit right now, dunno how to explain it.

http://drop.sc/373669

Greetings


Few notes:

You started second queen late, you should build your second queen at your main after your first one is completed. You missed an inject because of this (4 drones)

This is why you were 10 supply ahead. In sc2 as you get higher little things make more of a difference. At the lower leagues you can make smaller mistakes and providing you make no big mistakes you still win. As you climb the ladder smaller mistakes add up to a loss. + Show Spoiler +
For an example of this see Soulkey vs Stork in last nights proleague semi final. In this match stork makes many small mistakes throughout the game and soulkey just over whelms him with more stuff.


You had some pretty nasty supply blocks between 60 and 80 while aggression was happening.

Looks like your biggest issue is just smoothing out your builds while ZvZ aggression is going on. Missing injects while doing ling/bling battles are going on over thirds will end up costing you the game because you will just get over whelmed. If I was you I would focus on my queen/overlord timings. After each ZvZ check out the replay, zoom through and check your overlord timings and how your queen usage went. If you can iron that out you will quickly see a difference.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 00:34:30
February 12 2014 00:31 GMT
#2896
Yo.

Heavy Rain.

I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.

I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.

LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.

I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.

And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.

Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 12 2014 00:37 GMT
#2897
On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Yo.

Heavy Rain.

I scout my Protoss opponent going 2SG instantly.

I throw down Hydra Den and attack with a ton of Hydra Ling.

LOL. he has overcharge cannons gateways and some forcefields. On this map there is no fucking way I can engage out of a choke -,-.

I try to transition to swarm hosts, but Protoss feels like amoving with void ray collosus and well, we all know nothing beats that army and I lose the game.

And I hate losses in which I feel like there's nothing I could have done except for turtlehosts.

Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq. Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??


Replay please
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 00:42:46
February 12 2014 00:42 GMT
#2898
Didnt safe.

Nor is it relevant to my question.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 12 2014 02:55 GMT
#2899
Since you just want set answers to your questions, here you go.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is the game currently 'balanced' in a way that Protoss just gets to do nothing all game long untill he feels like he can attackmove if I don't go swarmhost...? Just like how TvP at the non pro level currently is (Protoss get's to "defend" all game long and amoves when he maxes)

No. Protoss do a lot of timings and pressures. If they sit in their base and never leave until maxed you can easily take five bases and destroy them with mutalisks or anything really.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
How to deal with 2SG opener? I scout INSTANTLY he is going mass voidray and still there is nothing I can do to punish -,-? I don't understand qq.


You can easily punish it with a hydra timing, if you tried and failed either you waited to long or macro'd bad and therefore got destroyed. A lot depends on how the game played out, since you do not have a replay it is hard to actually comment.

On February 12 2014 09:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Is heavy rain an imba map for that style??


No.
wishr
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation262 Posts
February 12 2014 05:34 GMT
#2900
Just a little question:
When i must choose to go Corruptors vs P, which went colossi?
And when its better to choose vipers?
* Only girls complain about balance! *
Prev 1 143 144 145 146 147 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
RO4 & Finals
Laughngamez YouTube
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL TeamLeague: ASH vs ST
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 214
UpATreeSC 139
JuggernautJason90
CosmosSc2 78
Nathanias 73
ProTech72
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5695
NaDa 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever209
League of Legends
JimRising 177
Counter-Strike
fl0m3870
pashabiceps2007
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King73
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu437
Khaldor346
Other Games
tarik_tv17375
gofns6954
Grubby3634
FrodaN3261
summit1g3041
Beastyqt811
QueenE62
Trikslyr48
ZombieGrub36
KnowMe23
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8947
StarCraft 2
angryscii 34
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 64
• davetesta34
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix14
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen47
• lizZardDota245
League of Legends
• Doublelift3694
Other Games
• imaqtpie1200
• Shiphtur233
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
1h 53m
Replay Cast
2h 53m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 53m
RSL Revival
12h 53m
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
WardiTV Winter Champion…
14h 53m
OSC
15h 23m
BSL
22h 53m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-05
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.