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The copout answer here is "game sense" You just gotta be able to know relative strengths at a glance, keeping in mind what you've seen, what you expect and what's been killed. It's a tough decision. Just try and save a scan once you've seen where he's relocated and go from there.
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On February 08 2015 19:49 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The copout answer here is "game sense" You just gotta be able to know relative strengths at a glance, keeping in mind what you've seen, what you expect and what's been killed. It's a tough decision. Just try and save a scan once you've seen where he's relocated and go from there.
That's what I thought it came down to really...there are just a lot of variables to give a definitive answer.
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Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it?
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I have a roach problem myself. I'm looking for a good hellbat pressure build order to mix into my TvZs to try and do early damage to zerg, problem is I am gold league and 80+ percent of zergs open roaches, either defensively or to do damage of their own. Most hellbat builds I have tried get shut down pretty hard. I was thinking of going with the 15 gas opening and doing a 2 base push with hellbats, as many marines as I can get out and uncloaked banshees. I think this should beat roach queen if I micro well enough, as long as it isn't a mass roach play. And even if it is I will have banshees to help fend off a roach push while I get a 3rd CC in base.
Is this a solid idea? Or since so many zergs open roaches at my level should I just ignore hellbat openers.
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On February 09 2015 06:38 Spiller wrote:
I have a roach problem myself. I'm looking for a good hellbat pressure build order to mix into my TvZs to try and do early damage to zerg, problem is I am gold league and 80+ percent of zergs open roaches, either defensively or to do damage of their own. Most hellbat builds I have tried get shut down pretty hard. I was thinking of going with the 15 gas opening and doing a 2 base push with hellbats, as many marines as I can get out and uncloaked banshees. I think this should beat roach queen if I micro well enough, as long as it isn't a mass roach play. And even if it is I will have banshees to help fend off a roach push while I get a 3rd CC in base.
Is this a solid idea? Or since so many zergs open roaches at my level should I just ignore hellbat openers.
Yeah I think you are over complicating things. If anything I would do some type of bio-tank aggressive build off of two bases. If he had a third aim to kill that and if he doesn't then play defensive, get a third cc and continue to macro because two base Terran beats two base Zerg pretty easily if you are prepared and three base T against two base Z isn't even close.
Personally I find early-ish mid game pressure to be a bad option for newer players. This is the point of the game where macro is so incredibly important...you need to be setting up infrastructure...getting upgrades...nailing those depots. I've found this to be a very strong concept...begin the attacking after you've set up your two base infrastructure. You'll see so many less slip ups in macro if your raxes, factory, starport are already down and the only things you need to be doing to keep your money low are producing units and hitting depots. This leaves a lot of APM you can spend dropping or scouting and beginning to plan where you will attack from. Hell...go crazy and drop his main to pull him out of position and then move your main force to siege up his third.
You can reference the replay of INnoVation vs soO game #3 in the 2014 gsl season 3 finals.
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On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it?
Honestly I think that is a build order loss. I don't think there is any stopping that many roaches doing such a greedy build.
Some people will probably suggest banshees but against this attack they aren't that great given the sheer number of roaches.
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On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it?
I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on.
If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching.
I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls 
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On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls
The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
Wondering if anyone could recommend some good, recent TvT games. My win-rate in TvT this season is absolutely abysmal, and I can't quite place why, it has been my highest % w/r and most consistent MU by far in HotS/WoL.
Preferably Maru/Flash/Innovation/Taeja
Thanks
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On February 10 2015 03:05 mau5mat wrote:
Wondering if anyone could recommend some good, recent TvT games. My win-rate in TvT this season is absolutely abysmal, and I can't quite place why, it has been my highest % w/r and most consistent MU by far in HotS/WoL.
Preferably Maru/Flash/Innovation/Taeja
Thanks
There have been a good bit actually.
The round of 32 group D in the gsl had TY Bomber Dream and one Protoss in Yonghwa so there is some TvT there to study.
As well as the most recent NSSL group which had TY Maru Dream and Dark which had Maru losing 1-2 to Dream but then crushing TY 2-0.
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On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss.
That is true but I still wanna see it
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On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it
http://drop.sc/393661
Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it.
One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming.
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On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls
The problem with this is that if you scout it and commit fully to defense you don't have fast enough bio production to take you're third at a reasonable time and have trouble with the 2/2 attack.
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On February 10 2015 03:48 Aquila- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it http://drop.sc/393661Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it. One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming.
Yeah I think reactored mines would help a lot.
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On February 10 2015 03:48 Aquila- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it http://drop.sc/393661Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it. One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming.
That is nasty!
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Hey guys, I was watching BW the other night and saw the marine medic science vessel style, and how good it is when used at it's full potential, So I started thinkgin if anyone in sc2 has every tried to use Ravens in TvZ, as a support unit, like Marine Marauder Medivac Mine, and add ravenz for seeker missles or auto turrets, I understand that you would probably need 40-50% extra apm just to be able to have propper fights, but the detection and the potential damage of seeker missles could be great. What do you guys think about it? Has it ever been done?
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On February 10 2015 05:00 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 03:48 Aquila- wrote:On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it http://drop.sc/393661Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it. One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming. Yeah I think reactored mines would help a lot.
So I tried in unit tester with bunker, wall, 6 widow mines, 4 tanks, marodeur and mass scv repair hold pos/attack. Roaches can still break through but almost all die, and also all scvs die. I guess I can survive then but with half my scvs dead and another wave of roach/hyra on the way and all my tanks dead :/
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On February 10 2015 03:48 Aquila- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it http://drop.sc/393661Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it. One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming. Yep, that's a very Bomber build alright :D
You might want to try using one of his more solid builds Like the gasless 3 cc into 12 min max would stomp this.
About 90% of Bombers builds are some weird metagame thingy.
I honestly don't think you can block any roach based all in that hits around 9-11 min with this build, you just don't have enough shit.
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On February 10 2015 06:25 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 03:48 Aquila- wrote:On February 10 2015 03:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 10 2015 02:11 Grizvok wrote:On February 09 2015 19:39 Kvassten wrote:On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it? I would like to see a replay of this. You really should have enough time to react. The first sign of a possible roach attack should be a fairly late 3rd hatch, like if you scout the 3rd at 7:00 and it just started you know something is going on. If you see something like that you just need to see if the roach warren is researching at around 8:00 and then you know it's coming. There is no need to play super greedy when the zerg is delaying the 3rd so use a scan to see either an early lair or the roach warren researching. I haven't faced this exact build so I don't know how to react but one option that will make you survive 100% of the time is to abandon your natural (I guess you've lost if you do it but you survive at least :D) but it's very situational so give us a replay pls The problem here is that the scouting you mention is done after a third cc has been put down by the Terran. You really can't play less greedy after the third has been put down. He also mentioned playing this scenario out in a unit tester and with 4 tanks, bunkers, and scv's pulled he still couldn't hold it off. It is honestly a build order loss. That is true but I still wanna see it http://drop.sc/393661Well in the game I only made 2 tanks since as I said was not sure how many roaches he is gonna make. I calculated that I can have 4 tanks out with constant production but even in ideal scenario on this map I cannot stop it. One idea that I had is reactoring out mines instead of the hellions if I know for sure its coming. Yep, that's a very Bomber build alright :D You might want to try using one of his more solid builds Like the gasless 3 cc into 12 min max would stomp this. About 90% of Bombers builds are some weird metagame thingy. I honestly don't think you can block any roach based all in that hits around 9-11 min with this build, you just don't have enough shit.
Yeah if I know he is going roaches from start then going straight to bio might be the best way, but I feel it is less safe vs normal ling play and bane busts. The idea is I have blueflame vs ling bane and tanks vs roaches to defend. Also I want to go into the bio+hellbat style and this builds leads very nicely into it.
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On February 09 2015 06:30 Aquila- wrote:
Has anyone faced the 1-1 mass roach TvZ recently? There is a certain GM zerg on NA that has a 75% winrate doing only that build vs Terran, I had the pleasure to lose vs it again today. 40 roaches with 1-1 at 11 minutes at my door off 53 drones and hydras on the way. I opened 3 cc into 2 factory bomber build so I had access to tanks, I tested again in unit tester, 4 tanks with wall, bunker, marodeur, scv repair and then hold position to keep them away from tanks wasnt enough. Was deadwing tho so no ramp to natural and no highground for tanks, on maps like overgrowth it might be easier. Any ideas how to stop this? Also another problem is that even if I scout the roach warren, some Zergs only make a few for defense and then go standard ling bane and if I keep making tanks I delay my everything. But even if I know it is coming I cant hold it, is it just build order loss or how would other builds deal with it?
I haven't seen the replay, but will asap. So far I have only seen it on GGTracker.
I am Zerg and I go for +1+1Roaches every time against terra. I hit at 10:00ish though, with less roaches (25ish) and from 2 base. It is the safer version but easier to hold. Hyun is doing things like this very often as well. Maybe research games where he loses?
IMO there is no specific hard counter, but marauders, mines and bunkers are the best defense. Thats at least, where I have the most problems. Mines might be useless against someone with superior micro though (compared to me. I'm Plat).
But if you can't scout it, you will likely lose. Also, If you go for an early 3rd, you are as good as dead. I always smile, when I see an early 3rd CC.
Also very crucial is harrasement. This build is relatively week in the early game, especially if he goes for 3 hatches. He has nothing till 8:30. A Hellion runby with a few drone kills does wonders to slow him down and against roaches, hellions will be useless anyways, so throw them away for some drones.
You might try banshees as well. Early banshee to harrass and then use them for defense.
I tried to help a Terran and feel dirty now.
E:Now that I think of it, I rarely lose against banshees, but that might be because banshees are micro intensive and in platinum league people can't multitask, so they mess up their macro, while I defend easily with 2 spores and 4 queens.
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EPT
