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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
http://drop.sc/367983
How do I play against Protoss? All Protoss has to do is spam Storms. Literally. That's what my opponent did in this game as he started off with Chargelot + Archons. Then he 1A Moved his whole army into mine. How did I know? Well for one, his High Templars weren't storming even though they were within range of my army in most of the battles. I tried to apply some pressure as soon as I got my Medivacs but alas, Photon Overcharge. Is there really no other way for me to get through this? At this rate, I'm going to fall from my high of Diamond to Gold or Silver soon.
On December 15 2013 11:46 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 10:50 geokilla wrote:So I don't quite understand what happened in this game... Standard TvT bio vs mech. Yet he completely annihilated me within 20 minutes, even though we barely fought, and I held an advantage in every possible way? http://drop.sc/367970 You actually had no advantages throughout that entire game. Your opening was barely more economic than his (CC first vs 1 rax CC), your ninja third didn't provide you any advantage due to his blindly checking cross map first with his reaper/hellion group (by the time you really had it up and going, he had his own uncontested third up shortly after), he kept up on upgrades (even surpassed you by the end of the game), and the one time you had a real supply advantage (as bio should have in mid-game) you decided to attack into an established siege line and lose it all for almost nothing in return -- a consistent tragedy you performed throughout the game, supply advantage or not. Given how mech is a more powerful army composition than bio, what bio strategy revolves around is stifling the mech player with economic harass, drop play, and threatening backstabs if he tries to move out. Meanwhile, you should be using your resource advantage (both in terms of bases/economy and the reduced cost of your army vs. his) to perform a better and faster air transition. Your air transition was actually behind his and he had the upgrades to back it up, which finally clinched him the game.
I hope you're kidding. The way he had set up, there was no way for me to attack. He massed his missile turrets as you saw. I tried to do direct pressure but it failed miserably and I got baited into his siege line. I know how Bio vs Mech works, but it doesn't explain why I lost this game. I felt like I was in control the whole game. Wasn't I? Same with the Protoss replay linked above.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm doubting your advice or whatever. I'm not. It's just that I theoretically know how to play TvX, but in my games it's just not working out. Especially in TvT (Bio vs Mech) and TvP.
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On December 15 2013 15:30 geokilla wrote:http://drop.sc/367983How do I play against Protoss? All Protoss has to do is spam Storms. Literally. That's what my opponent did in this game as he started off with Chargelot + Archons. Then he 1A Moved his whole army into mine. How did I know? Well for one, his High Templars weren't storming even though they were within range of my army in most of the battles. I tried to apply some pressure as soon as I got my Medivacs but alas, Photon Overcharge. Is there really no other way for me to get through this? At this rate, I'm going to fall from my high of Diamond to Gold or Silver soon. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 11:46 iamcaustic wrote:On December 15 2013 10:50 geokilla wrote:So I don't quite understand what happened in this game... Standard TvT bio vs mech. Yet he completely annihilated me within 20 minutes, even though we barely fought, and I held an advantage in every possible way? http://drop.sc/367970 You actually had no advantages throughout that entire game. Your opening was barely more economic than his (CC first vs 1 rax CC), your ninja third didn't provide you any advantage due to his blindly checking cross map first with his reaper/hellion group (by the time you really had it up and going, he had his own uncontested third up shortly after), he kept up on upgrades (even surpassed you by the end of the game), and the one time you had a real supply advantage (as bio should have in mid-game) you decided to attack into an established siege line and lose it all for almost nothing in return -- a consistent tragedy you performed throughout the game, supply advantage or not. Given how mech is a more powerful army composition than bio, what bio strategy revolves around is stifling the mech player with economic harass, drop play, and threatening backstabs if he tries to move out. Meanwhile, you should be using your resource advantage (both in terms of bases/economy and the reduced cost of your army vs. his) to perform a better and faster air transition. Your air transition was actually behind his and he had the upgrades to back it up, which finally clinched him the game. I hope you're kidding. The way he had set up, there was no way for me to attack. He massed his missile turrets as you saw. I tried to do direct pressure but it failed miserably and I got baited into his siege line. I know how Bio vs Mech works, but it doesn't explain why I lost this game. I felt like I was in control the whole game. Wasn't I? Same with the Protoss replay linked above. Sorry if it sounds like I'm doubting your advice or whatever. I'm not. It's just that I theoretically know how to play TvX, but in my games it's just not working out. Especially in TvT (Bio vs Mech) and TvP.
Just watched the TvT :
You dropped him just once on his natural, he had like 2 turrets in total you could have drop him like a madman. He had better upgrade, same eco, and you took doubtfull engagement.
1) drop more.
2) focus on your upgrades
3) take better engagements
When you scout that he does a sky transition, you can try to kill him at this moment, but again, take better engages bro, split your army, found some flaws in his defense (he has lot of spot that was covered by only 2/3 tanks, he was way too spread). All in all, you had great opportunity to kill him but you didn't see them.
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Hello, I am learning Terran. I used to play Zerg and even though I rarely played (like once every 2 months of something like that) I had a low masters MMR (Gold league though) just by massing roaches in WoL. I never enjoyed the game though, so I decided to switch to Terran in order to get some gratification out of the game.
Help me please to check out this replay so I can improve:
http://drop.sc/368027
Yes my macro was horrible. Playing Terran is not as simple as pressing Z -> Smashing Q/W for mass drones or Zerglings.
My BO is bad so please tell me one that I can use in all MU's and tighten up. Also, I like the concept of using Thors, so please don't tell me not to use or drop them. What can I do to become a better Terran?
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On December 16 2013 02:07 TheManInBlack wrote:Hello, I am learning Terran. I used to play Zerg and even though I rarely played (like once every 2 months of something like that) I had a low masters MMR (Gold league though) just by massing roaches in WoL. I never enjoyed the game though, so I decided to switch to Terran in order to get some gratification out of the game. Help me please to check out this replay so I can improve: http://drop.sc/368027Yes my macro was horrible. Playing Terran is not as simple as pressing Z -> Smashing Q/W for mass drones or Zerglings. My BO is bad so please tell me one that I can use in all MU's and tighten up. Also, I like the concept of using Thors, so please don't tell me not to use or drop them. What can I do to become a better Terran?
To say 'please help me get better at sc2' and 'I like the concept of using Thors, so please don't tell me not to use or drop them' is a bit like a baseball pitcher saying 'please help me become a better pitcher' and 'I like the concept of throwing underhand, so please don't tell me not to throw overhand'. That being said, the Thor / thor drop definitely isn't why you lost this game.
The biggest things I noticed in the were
-spotty / inconsistent production (this is huge, it loses you the worker lead you had from CC first and makes your army end up about half the size it could be by 11:00)
-Consistent Supply Blocks (trying using camera hotkeys to help with this)
-Not using Orbital energy (again, camera hotkeys would help a lot with this)
-Late upgrades (your first two engineering bays didn't finish until 12:00 or so)
-Lack of scouting / reacting to what you see (you never saw the third and never started getting vikings when you saw Collosi)
A couple other random notes
-When going CC first, you dont need a second depot, the CC will finish in time to 'prevent' your supply block
-When going CC first, you usually want to go up to 3 rax before gas, gas spending should be tech lab -> stim -> factory -> add-ons (1 reactor 1 tech lab on barracks) -> starport (build next to factory and build a reactor on the factory then swap them) -> upgrades
-5 rax production off of two base is usually 3 tech labs and 2 reactors, I actually never go past 2 reactor barracks in TvP, marines are just too squishy
Unfortunately Terran doesn't really have a BO that works in every matchup that doesn't involve reacting to what you see. Here's a good guide on learning Terran from the ground up in HotS, a little outdated but very comprehensive and it should still give you all the information you need.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/151815964/T30X-v0-30
Otherwise, CC first into 3 rax can work in every matchup, but it will be quite hard to make work in TvT as it's an autoloss to quite a few aggressive builds (mostly reaper openings) and puts you at a disadvantage vs a lot more, and it starts to become less viable in higher leagues for TvZ when Zerg's have good creep spread.
Reaper FE is probably a more solid opening usable in every matchup, but the follow ups are drastically different in each matchup and it would take quite awhile to explain it all properly.
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Hi all, i have been experimenting with weird builds that i haven't seen too many Pro/master's use or maybe don't even use at all. However, there is one in particular that i like the feel to but can't seem to get down. it goes like this:
Depo
Gas
Racks
(orbital)/(Reactor)
then use that reactor to build 2-4 reapers
The harass goes really well with the reapers, but i can never properly get a nice 1-2 punch(1or2 base follow up) or set up a sound eco build behind.
any Suggestions? is this just a stupid build? am i just a bad player? do i need to provide replays to help out?
Anything is welcome!!
MY info:
Jake
B.net: Sodaplay704 NA
WoL: Diamond Toss
HoTs: Gold/Plat Terran
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On December 16 2013 07:27 Sodaplay111 wrote:
Hi all, i have been experimenting with weird builds that i haven't seen too many Pro/master's use or maybe don't even use at all. However, there is one in particular that i like the feel to but can't seem to get down. it goes like this:
Depo
Gas
Racks
(orbital)/(Reactor)
then use that reactor to build 2-4 reapers
The harass goes really well with the reapers, but i can never properly get a nice 1-2 punch(1or2 base follow up) or set up a sound eco build behind.
any Suggestions? is this just a stupid build? am i just a bad player? do i need to provide replays to help out?
Anything is welcome!!
MY info:
Jake
B.net: Sodaplay704 NA
WoL: Diamond Toss
HoTs: Gold/Plat Terran
in what matchup do you want to use this build?
i remeber keen doing a reactor reaper build vs toss, but to be honst, i was never particular impressed.
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On December 16 2013 08:48 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 07:27 Sodaplay111 wrote:
Hi all, i have been experimenting with weird builds that i haven't seen too many Pro/master's use or maybe don't even use at all. However, there is one in particular that i like the feel to but can't seem to get down. it goes like this:
Depo
Gas
Racks
(orbital)/(Reactor)
then use that reactor to build 2-4 reapers
The harass goes really well with the reapers, but i can never properly get a nice 1-2 punch(1or2 base follow up) or set up a sound eco build behind.
any Suggestions? is this just a stupid build? am i just a bad player? do i need to provide replays to help out?
Anything is welcome!!
MY info:
Jake
B.net: Sodaplay704 NA
WoL: Diamond Toss
HoTs: Gold/Plat Terran
in what matchup do you want to use this build? i remeber keen doing a reactor reaper build vs toss, but to be honst, i was never particular impressed.
any matchup im trying it in considering how it works with 2 or 4 reapers depending on the match
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On December 16 2013 09:09 Sodaplay111 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 08:48 Paljas wrote:On December 16 2013 07:27 Sodaplay111 wrote:
Hi all, i have been experimenting with weird builds that i haven't seen too many Pro/master's use or maybe don't even use at all. However, there is one in particular that i like the feel to but can't seem to get down. it goes like this:
Depo
Gas
Racks
(orbital)/(Reactor)
then use that reactor to build 2-4 reapers
The harass goes really well with the reapers, but i can never properly get a nice 1-2 punch(1or2 base follow up) or set up a sound eco build behind.
any Suggestions? is this just a stupid build? am i just a bad player? do i need to provide replays to help out?
Anything is welcome!!
MY info:
Jake
B.net: Sodaplay704 NA
WoL: Diamond Toss
HoTs: Gold/Plat Terran
in what matchup do you want to use this build? i remeber keen doing a reactor reaper build vs toss, but to be honst, i was never particular impressed. any matchup im trying it in considering how it works with 2 or 4 reapers depending on the match
I use a build I copied from byun that he used in TvT that gets 3 at a time rather early. The way it works out, you are at 17/19 supply then ONCE reactor finishes...at the same time as the 2nd rax finishes... is the SAME TIME the depot finishes... and the exact time you have 150min/150gas. It's TIGHT as hell opening.
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC
15 Rax
15 2nd gas
15 reactor
15 depot.
3 on both gas, fastest I've started 3 reapers is 3:53. I use it in TvT/TvZ and TvP. Of course I have deviations and I vary the follow up per match up. You get 3 reapers, and can then go into bio production as you FE at 22/23 supply and have map control with reapers. Variations ensue as per matchup.
Here's a few examples, I guess if you want to see as it really doesn't make sense unless you see it.
TvZ
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493766
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493781
TvP
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493800
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493783
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493798
TvT
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493799
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4493804
It's a staple for me in TvT and so far since coming back to Sc2 this weekend after 3-4 months break I'm 14-5 tvp, 7-0 tvt, 3-2 tvz. Not getting any TvZ, but doing well with it still. Played about ~10 custom TvZ and I've lost two. Can't tell you if any of the opponents are good, but it's at least examples to look at.
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Hey so i have decided to just open up blind anti banshee every single TvT because literally every single terran I have played the last 50 games has opened cloak banshee and I am beginning to get pissed off because I really dont have the control to deal with it so my question lies How far behind will I be if my opponent doesn't open cloak banshee (15 gas or something different)?
Also what should I do vs gas first? Save my mules and thats it ? Or throw down an ebay and get up a missile turret? (Because my raven doesnt pop in time for the first banshee, at least i dont think)
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You get a scan around 5:30 so keep that scan and place widow mines and marines in a position where the banshee will appear and just scan the banshee. The widow mine will hit and the marines will kill it, this allows you to get your banshee down after your first banshee. After this you have your raven and can deal with banshees easily. Of course you could just use Innovation's gas first raven build.
If I go 12 gas and I see 12 gas I go 4 marines reactor factory and tech lab the rax. Then 2 hellions a medivac and drop with the 4 marines 2 hellions. Swap the starport and barracks and pump raven viking and you go cloakshee after. Make 2 more hellions and send them straight to his base, then widow mines and use them as I have said earlier with the marines you make from your naked rax.
The low marine count means with good micro your drop can kill his defence and with 2 more hellions you can wreck his mineral line.
Compared to a 15 gas you can still use the banshee to deal nice damage and make the games more or less close with a slight lead to either player. If you are really good with the banshee you can just win the game outright sometimes, be wary of hellions running to your base with a 15 gas though.
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On December 16 2013 11:00 Dunmer wrote:
You get a scan around 5:30 so keep that scan and place widow mines and marines in a position where the banshee will appear and just scan the banshee. The widow mine will hit and the marines will kill it, this allows you to get your banshee down after your first banshee. After this you have your raven and can deal with banshees easily. Of course you could just use Innovation's gas first raven build.
If I go 12 gas and I see 12 gas I go 4 marines reactor factory and tech lab the rax. Then 2 hellions a medivac and drop with the 4 marines 2 hellions. Swap the starport and barracks and pump raven viking and you go cloakshee after. Make 2 more hellions and send them straight to his base, then widow mines and use them as I have said earlier with the marines you make from your naked rax.
The low marine count means with good micro your drop can kill his defence and with 2 more hellions you can wreck his mineral line.
Compared to a 15 gas you can still use the banshee to deal nice damage and make the games more or less close with a slight lead to either player. If you are really good with the banshee you can just win the game outright sometimes, be wary of hellions running to your base with a 15 gas though.
Thanks for this, really useful  . Another thing though, say I wanted to transition straight into marine tank? What would be an optimal way to go anti banshee straight into marine tank (if using maru's version of it http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvt/tvt-marus-anti-banshee-expand/) with 15 gas and an early expand?
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Hmm well going 15 gas, you reactor the rax and swap it with the factory and tech lab the tax and swap it with the starport and get a raven out. Then you can just leave the starport naked and get a Viking and get stim with your rax. Go eBay and 2 more rax, put one on the reactor if you need to pump marines otherwise you can out the starport on that. When your factory is lifted you can go tech lab and tanks etc. Then +1 and two turrets if your still worried about banshees. I go mech myself but 4-6 Hellion's should be more than enough to poke around/ defend drops. And if a tank push is coming you can just pump them out constantly and swarm the push before he can seige.
The link didn't work for me so I'm just going for the normal 15 gas expand with you scouting 12 gas. If they dont go 12 gas just pump out a lot of hellions and you can go 3rd Cc before more barracks. Well as long as your hellions dont spot an all in coming from one base.
Mainly dont be afraid to swap addons after the raven to suit your followup and what you scouted.
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Okay so just so I'm clear,
Opener:
12 raxx
12 or 13 scout
15 gas
*If i scout 12 gas/ gas first:
reactor on raxx
20- 2nd CC
@100 gas factory -> Tech lab for port
Starport
Starport on techlab
Raven
Widow mine
Then move into more raxx, 3rd cc, marine tank play.
*If i do not scout early gas/ reaper play:
reactor on raxx
???????????
I really didnt quite understand what you were trying to say :X with the hellions and all. Did you mean after my raven gets out? I mean i never really see anyone go hellions anymore, especially in such a small number, I understand why you would say to get more out if you see a tank push incoming but how exactly am i supposed to see this coming I mean i will have little to no map control.
I just feel really frustrated because I cannot win TvT. In general I have such a hard time dealing with any sort of harass if the zerg in TvZ just brings in like 5 or 6 mutas at the usual time my army moves out i just lose because the damage they do before any bit of my army gets out is too substantial and by the time my army gets there they just swoop into the natural/ third... Same thing with zealot run by's I wall off my third base and on wards with a bunker and everything but they usually commit to so many that it doesn't even matter and if i am dancing around with my main army there is nothing I can do because by the time i get there the damage is already dealt. And its not like I can 'just engage and win because he invested so much into a counter attack' because he has storms + colossi regardless of the counter zealot attack.... I mean its the only real way I lose any games in my league and it is really holding me back it drives me insane because if my opponent doesn't do any of that I can usually eventually get a better engagement and steam roll them because I have superior macro and micro, but if they do then everything just gets fucked over .... ~_~
Any help in how to deal with counter attacks/ harass in general would be great.
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Hold on I will do the build and upload the replays as it will be more clear, check back in this post later.
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Can someone give me a general counter to 12/12 2 rax reaper in TvT? I can usually defend the 6 or so reapers from doing crippling direct econ damage, but they contain me in one base too long. By the time I can safely expand, I usually get pushed with stimmed medivac marines and die.
I'm platinum level more or less. Didn't get to play very much in my first semester in college so i'm woefully behind the metagame.
Tell me if this is too basic a question/whether you need me to provide a replay.
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On December 17 2013 05:19 darthfoley wrote:
Can someone give me a general counter to 12/12 2 rax reaper in TvT? I can usually defend the 6 or so reapers from doing crippling direct econ damage, but they contain me in one base too long. By the time I can safely expand, I usually get pushed with stimmed medivac marines and die.
I'm platinum level more or less. Didn't get to play very much in my first semester in college so i'm woefully behind the metagame.
Tell me if this is too basic a question/whether you need me to provide a replay.
You can hold fine with a 15-gas expand or a gas-first build. Basic technique is to delay with Marines on typical high ground entry points until the Hellions start coming out. Hellions beat Reapers, especially with Marine backup.
If I scout 2-rax Reaper, I generally go:
12 Barracks
15 Refinery
* produce continuous Marines
@400 min CC
@100 gas Factory
Get a Reactor on the Barracks either when you get a lucky Reaper kill or two (he has to delay further), or when you scout he's pulled off committing to Reapers. Careful micro will be required, but it's eminently holdable.
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So in TvZ you always want to be active with your army, if you are not attacking you are dropping or poking or taking map presence, trying to set up a favourable engagement, right? Well with that being said against protoss do I want to be doing something similar? I know when it gets to the late late game I should be getting orbitals and getting up more ghosts and vikings and what not but should i still be playing that abusive style in the mid-late game similarly to zerg because often times i kind of find myself twiddling my thumbs and kind of sitting there with my army. I understand that I should be dropping but how much is too much and is that abusive style still effective in TvP?
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Fhiz, the biggest thing in TvP is to threated Protoss. You don't need to lose units at all, you posture at his front, have a medivac near his main, and occasionally kill a single zealot or pylon.
Protoss needs to use Overcharge / Warp In to be safe. Forcing him to warp in draws recourses away from fast teching and expanding or getting cannons, and thus, you weaker his lategame army, not with direct damage, but by forcing his money into less usefull investments.
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Hey guys!
I'm desperate here. I'm struggling against Protoss all the time especially in the late game. Recently I finally learned to hold most of the early aggression, but the mid-late game is a mess, since recently I encounter more and more of the chargelot+archon+templar composition. I'm a bio-player in TvP, and when I see the templar transition, I immediately start churning out ghosts but it doesn't make a dent... it is extremely hard to micro them and most of them dies before they can land either the emp or the snipe (when there's a lot archon, it's more emp). Overall, in the late game my army dies without any significant damage done to the protoss army. I try to snipe down expos, but after a while there's too many cannon and by the time I get passed them, the full army is there. The worst thing is, that in these cases I suffer a lot of damage, because there's no way to run away from chargelots. (yeah, medivac pick ups should work, but that's quite hard in the heat of the moment, and there's such a tiny time window, that I usually end up with 2-3 surviving medivacs, and the rest of my army is completely dead). What unit composition with what strategy is the choice in mid/late game when the toss goes zealot/archon/templar plus extra?
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Bio+Ghost is enough, just don't be too late on upgrade. If he has a shit tons of chargelots, the best is kitting the shit out of him. It's not that difficult and if he doesn't pull back, you can kill an infinite number of zealots. If he pulls, you can still grab a few zealots before leaving. Just stay away from his HT and be always on his side of the map so he doesn't corner you on your base where you can't spread your army in case of storms.
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EPT
