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On December 13 2013 08:15 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 13:46 Bulugulu wrote:On December 12 2013 13:18 tshi wrote:
is the consensus on TvP what avilo makes it out to be? is P really that op? just wondering, cause if it is... david kim should really communicate better with the community about that According to Blizzard all the matchups are balanced so all who complain are just whining and need to get better at the game  . that is not true, they only watch the highest level of play. for other balance statistics, you cant use ladder data because you will always get ranked to have a 50% winrate, no matter how imbalanced the game is. if toss would win 80% of the games with even matched players, they would just get higher ranks and play harder opponents, but you will never see imbalance in ladder statistics.
I think Blizz have said themselves they balance for all levels but look first to pro games. I don't know where the quote is or anything, so I can't confirm that true but I have heard this repeated many times
I'm pretty sure Blizz want people playing their game so naturally they should look if one race is getting particularly dominated on ladder. Loads of Terrans have been whining and quitting lately about the state of TvP, constant nerfs etc
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What is a good time to move out and stop killing creep, I find the only time i really ever lose to zerg is by some sort of all in or if i get in a really bad position (on creep) due to a quick run in surround plus mutas
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On December 13 2013 07:03 nightshark wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 04:54 Jazzman88 wrote:On December 13 2013 01:29 Tzam wrote:
How do you deal with the two base 8-gate chargelot/storm allin? Hellbats are good 0/0 hellbats? Get blue flame or does that take up too much time that could be on the reactor?
Depends on the amount of zealots in opponents composition. They definitely don't hurt, and it also empowers later hellion harass.
Upgrades should be dependent on your viking requirements IMO.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On December 13 2013 08:34 Fhiz wrote:
What is a good time to move out and stop killing creep, I find the only time i really ever lose to zerg is by some sort of all in or if i get in a really bad position (on creep) due to a quick run in surround plus mutas
Sorry, to answer your question I'm just going to copy and paste something I wrote a while ago, hope that is ok.
''Clearing creep is of paramount importance, to paraphrase QXC who was coaching a Platinum Terran, ''If you are not parading to a base, you should be dropping and killing creep.''
Killing creep sets your 2-2 parade at the Zergs 4th up much, much better. It allows for a more cost efficient engagement/trade with Zerg, specifically with banelings. It this is constant trading of minerals vs gas that kills Zerg, as they cannot efficiently tech to Hive without dying.
In fact, the builds you use are DESIGNED to kill or contain creep at specific moments. You have the almost mandatory Hellion-based opening off of a CC first or 12/12 reaper, which is used to keep Zerg honest by forcing units, containing creep spread, and threatening run-bys. Your 1-1 push with medivacs at around 11-11:30 is used SPECIFICALLY to clear creep and to force Zerg to build banelings, which sets your subsequent 2-2 push to be a much more cost effective trade for you.
I hope you can see that clearning creep actually DOES have a significant impact on resources AND army, albeit in an indirect way.
glhf.''
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On December 13 2013 08:34 Fhiz wrote:
What is a good time to move out and stop killing creep, I find the only time i really ever lose to zerg is by some sort of all in or if i get in a really bad position (on creep) due to a quick run in surround plus mutas
What build do you use? I lose quite often with Innovation's 3CC even after my 3rd CC has landed and I have insane production. Usually because my initial units get wasted by a much larger army size which constantly puts me on the back foot afterward. At that point I have to sorta rely on zerg doing something stupid.
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On December 13 2013 09:11 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 08:34 Fhiz wrote:
What is a good time to move out and stop killing creep, I find the only time i really ever lose to zerg is by some sort of all in or if i get in a really bad position (on creep) due to a quick run in surround plus mutas Sorry, to answer your question I'm just going to copy and paste something I wrote a while ago, hope that is ok. ''Clearing creep is of paramount importance, to paraphrase QXC who was coaching a Platinum Terran, ''If you are not parading to a base, you should be dropping and killing creep.'' Killing creep sets your 2-2 parade at the Zergs 4th up much, much better. It allows for a more cost efficient engagement/trade with Zerg, specifically with banelings. It this is constant trading of minerals vs gas that kills Zerg, as they cannot efficiently tech to Hive without dying. In fact, the builds you use are DESIGNED to kill or contain creep at specific moments. You have the almost mandatory Hellion-based opening off of a CC first or 12/12 reaper, which is used to keep Zerg honest by forcing units, containing creep spread, and threatening run-bys. Your 1-1 push with medivacs at around 11-11:30 is used SPECIFICALLY to clear creep and to force Zerg to build banelings, which sets your subsequent 2-2 push to be a much more cost effective trade for you. I hope you can see that clearning creep actually DOES have a significant impact on resources AND army, albeit in an indirect way. glhf.''
Basically what Fhiz said, for the following reasons. You're killing creep with hellions, because they can escape speedlings that come out to defend should he build many. You're killing creep after you have medivacs and stim bio because you can load up and escape after you're done with a few tumors. You're killing creep constantly afterwards because that is what gives 4th stability and good engagements from the zerg.
Judicious use of those principles should deal with your experience of bad engagements on creep, though dealing with allins is an entirely different animal of itself.
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Holy crap I just got absolutely walked over in TvP. Would anyone be able to analyze this replay as I honestly have no idea how I could have won
http://drop.sc/367776
I started the game with Inno's safe bio build but after all the harrassment I thought fuck it, laid down rax and delayed my starport thinking I would be able to do daamge if I pumped out some bio.
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On December 13 2013 10:13 nightshark wrote:Holy crap I just got absolutely walked over in TvP. Would anyone be able to analyze this replay as I honestly have no idea how I could have won http://drop.sc/367776I started the game with Inno's safe bio build but after all the harrassment I thought !@#$%^&* it, laid down rax and delayed my starport thinking I would be able to do daamge if I pumped out some bio.
Should be quite obvious? Your opening just lost you the game. If instead you had done this;
1) Build expo oon high ground. Mothership pressure from my experiences just beats lowground expos.
2) Actively scouted with your Reaper. Your reaper didn't really do anything.
3) Not pull scvs to kill the pylon
You would have been in a much better spot going into midgame.
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On December 13 2013 10:19 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 10:13 nightshark wrote:Holy crap I just got absolutely walked over in TvP. Would anyone be able to analyze this replay as I honestly have no idea how I could have won http://drop.sc/367776I started the game with Inno's safe bio build but after all the harrassment I thought !@#$%^&* it, laid down rax and delayed my starport thinking I would be able to do daamge if I pumped out some bio. Should be quite obvious? Your opening just lost you the game. If instead you had done this; 1) Build expo oon high ground. Mothership pressure from my experiences just beats lowground expos. 2) Actively scouted with your Reaper. Your reaper didn't really do anything. 3) Not pull scvs to kill the pylon You would have been in a much better spot going into midgame.
Well my reaper spotted the pressure coming which is why I built the bunker, I pulled SCVs in case he was going to cannon rush my natural, all I would've had at that time was a reaper coming out which would take forever to kill the pylon. I lost the reaper I think when I pulled it back to put in the bunker, the bunker wasn't done so it just died (bad micro)
I guess I will start expanding on high ground and bunker up at the front of my main if I spot this pressure coming.
Do you think seeing the single zealot is a good indication of this coming, P seems to usually open with a stalker to deny the reaper, the only time I see a zealot opening is usually this same thing
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On December 13 2013 10:25 nightshark wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 10:19 Hider wrote:On December 13 2013 10:13 nightshark wrote:Holy crap I just got absolutely walked over in TvP. Would anyone be able to analyze this replay as I honestly have no idea how I could have won http://drop.sc/367776I started the game with Inno's safe bio build but after all the harrassment I thought !@#$%^&* it, laid down rax and delayed my starport thinking I would be able to do daamge if I pumped out some bio. Should be quite obvious? Your opening just lost you the game. If instead you had done this; 1) Build expo oon high ground. Mothership pressure from my experiences just beats lowground expos. 2) Actively scouted with your Reaper. Your reaper didn't really do anything. 3) Not pull scvs to kill the pylon You would have been in a much better spot going into midgame. Well my reaper spotted the pressure coming which is why I built the bunker, I pulled SCVs in case he was going to cannon rush my natural, all I would've had at that time was a reaper coming out which would take forever to kill the pylon. I lost the reaper I think when I pulled it back to put in the bunker, the bunker wasn't done so it just died (bad micro) I guess I will start expanding on high ground and bunker up at the front of my main if I spot this pressure coming. Do you think seeing the single zealot is a good indication of this coming, P seems to usually open with a stalker to deny the reaper, the only time I see a zealot opening is usually this same thing
You need to send the Reaper to his base asap. Then you should notice what he is chrono'ing and can react in time. Zealot + chrono Stalker is usually good indication of Mothership core pressure.
Regardless, I think lowground expo is way too difficult against too much stuff (oracle proxy, blink stalkers). Play it the safe way and just do highground expo and focus on scouting with the Reaper.
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On December 13 2013 11:04 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 10:25 nightshark wrote:On December 13 2013 10:19 Hider wrote:On December 13 2013 10:13 nightshark wrote:Holy crap I just got absolutely walked over in TvP. Would anyone be able to analyze this replay as I honestly have no idea how I could have won http://drop.sc/367776I started the game with Inno's safe bio build but after all the harrassment I thought !@#$%^&* it, laid down rax and delayed my starport thinking I would be able to do daamge if I pumped out some bio. Should be quite obvious? Your opening just lost you the game. If instead you had done this; 1) Build expo oon high ground. Mothership pressure from my experiences just beats lowground expos. 2) Actively scouted with your Reaper. Your reaper didn't really do anything. 3) Not pull scvs to kill the pylon You would have been in a much better spot going into midgame. Well my reaper spotted the pressure coming which is why I built the bunker, I pulled SCVs in case he was going to cannon rush my natural, all I would've had at that time was a reaper coming out which would take forever to kill the pylon. I lost the reaper I think when I pulled it back to put in the bunker, the bunker wasn't done so it just died (bad micro) I guess I will start expanding on high ground and bunker up at the front of my main if I spot this pressure coming. Do you think seeing the single zealot is a good indication of this coming, P seems to usually open with a stalker to deny the reaper, the only time I see a zealot opening is usually this same thing You need to send the Reaper to his base asap. Then you should notice what he is chrono'ing and can react in time. Zealot + chrono Stalker is usually good indication of Mothership core pressure. Regardless, I think lowground expo is way too difficult against too much stuff (oracle proxy, blink stalkers). Play it the safe way and just do highground expo and focus on scouting with the Reaper.
Okay thanks. I always lift my CC to main if I scout blink stalkers as that is pretty much impossible to hold on low ground and still really difficult on the high ground. But otherwise I always leave it on low ground as the build requires it I think to keep up with production (currently using audio guides I made and trying to wean myself off them)
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audio guides? like scv, scv, scv, depot, scv, scv, scv?
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Haha I love it how most of the questions in this thread are about tvp. Does that tell us something ^^?
On December 13 2013 19:54 JonIrenicus wrote:
I've got a question. I seem not to be able to do ghosts vs ht fights.
The protoss is always able to feedback my ghosts, before my ghosts are able to get his hts.
Also, I'm not able to understand how T pros are able to snipe 2 times in less than one second the same ht.
In ghost vs ht you have a range advantage when using EMP. Use EMP when the HTs are clumped otherwise snipe is mostly better because it kills them and they can't turn into archons.
I you have all your ghosts in the same hotkey group just select the group and cast snipe twice on a HT. This will make two of your ghosts snipe said HT.
But the micro dance between HT and ghost is really hard to pull off for the terran player. I guess it's just practice, practice, practice.
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On December 13 2013 19:54 JonIrenicus wrote:
I've got a question. I seem not to be able to do ghosts vs ht fights.
The protoss is always able to feedback my ghosts, before my ghosts are able to get his hts.
Also, I'm not able to understand how T pros are able to snipe 2 times in less than one second the same ht.
Here's a link you may find useful. It's the replay pack from DHWinter a couple of weeks ago. Taeja of course won the event, and he's the worlds most mind-blowing TvP player.
I would recommend watching all of the TvP series and seeing how Taeja, Innovation, and others control not only their Ghosts, but their whole army. Quite often ForGG will go Hellbat-heavy and just bathe in Storms and the Hellbats give zero fucks about that, whereas Taeja and Innovation split up their massive bio armies so well that it doesn't matter if the Protoss Storms, they need something else to overpower them. Great games in there; watch them and learn.
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On December 13 2013 19:54 JonIrenicus wrote:
I've got a question. I seem not to be able to do ghosts vs ht fights.
The protoss is always able to feedback my ghosts, before my ghosts are able to get his hts.
Also, I'm not able to understand how T pros are able to snipe 2 times in less than one second the same ht.
select 2 ghosts and try to get in range and use the snipe abilty with both ghosts selected... u can train fast sniping at the sc2 micro masters thing...
my tipp for u try to steal the vision from protoss (observers). and dont run into highgrounds without a scan, and watch out for ht flanks maybe with 1 or 2 vikings or marines
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On December 13 2013 22:55 KOtical wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 19:54 JonIrenicus wrote:
I've got a question. I seem not to be able to do ghosts vs ht fights.
The protoss is always able to feedback my ghosts, before my ghosts are able to get his hts.
Also, I'm not able to understand how T pros are able to snipe 2 times in less than one second the same ht.
select 2 ghosts and try to get in range and use the snipe abilty with both ghosts selected... u can train fast sniping at the sc2 micro masters thing... my tipp for u try to steal the vision from protoss (observers). and dont run into highgrounds without a scan, and watch out for ht flanks maybe with 1 or 2 vikings or marines
It's funny, but you don't even need to pull two ghosts. One would suffice.
There's this odd thing that I learned, where if you put the ghosts on hold fire command (f key) you can actually shift+snipe, where only one ghost will fire all his snipes/energy before the others move forward.
This is very beneficial for quite a few reasons, one of the most important is not losing one ghost after the other to feedback.
The downside to doing this is that your ghosts aren't on auto attack command if they get shot at. So you'll need to highlight/select their group and a-move to remove the hold fire command that you have given.
Try it out. Let me know how it works for you.
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On December 13 2013 23:52 `dunedain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 22:55 KOtical wrote:On December 13 2013 19:54 JonIrenicus wrote:
I've got a question. I seem not to be able to do ghosts vs ht fights.
The protoss is always able to feedback my ghosts, before my ghosts are able to get his hts.
Also, I'm not able to understand how T pros are able to snipe 2 times in less than one second the same ht.
select 2 ghosts and try to get in range and use the snipe abilty with both ghosts selected... u can train fast sniping at the sc2 micro masters thing... my tipp for u try to steal the vision from protoss (observers). and dont run into highgrounds without a scan, and watch out for ht flanks maybe with 1 or 2 vikings or marines It's funny, but you don't even need to pull two ghosts. One would suffice. There's this odd thing that I learned, where if you put the ghosts on hold fire command (f key) you can actually shift+snipe, where only one ghost will fire all his snipes/energy before the others move forward. This is very beneficial for quite a few reasons, one of the most important is not losing one ghost after the other to feedback. The downside to doing this is that your ghosts aren't on auto attack command if they get shot at. So you'll need to highlight/select their group and a-move to remove the hold fire command that you have given. Try it out. Let me know how it works for you.
I just tried it in the Unit Tester, but couldn't see a difference between shift+sniping with the "hold fire"-command enabled/disabled.
In both situations multiple ghosts from my control group moved forward to snipe (unless i selected a single ghost of course).
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On December 13 2013 18:26 Doc Brawler wrote:
audio guides? like scv, scv, scv, depot, scv, scv, scv?
No, it just tells me the timing of buildings, when to pull SCVs into gas, occasionally reminds me to scout in TvP, etc. They are especially helpful to me when I am under some kind of pressure to help me remember what to build next. I posted them here on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1ss4mi/i_made_a_few_audio_guides_in_wma_format_for/
They aren't perfect but they serve as a good guide to me when I get shaken in games.
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EPT
