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The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 182

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Doc Brawler
Profile Joined November 2011
United States260 Posts
October 06 2013 06:10 GMT
#3621
Hey guys I was wondering what some of the best options are for defending one base blink play with CC FIRST. I already feel comfortable with the tactics of retreating to the high ground pulling scvs, making a few bunkers in main but I would really like a vod or an exact build order to help with the defense and transition.
I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-06 19:46:20
October 06 2013 15:50 GMT
#3622
On October 06 2013 15:10 Doc Brawler wrote:
Hey guys I was wondering what some of the best options are for defending one base blink play with CC FIRST. I already feel comfortable with the tactics of retreating to the high ground pulling scvs, making a few bunkers in main but I would really like a vod or an exact build order to help with the defense and transition.


Hey there! I have a guide that deals extensively with this and other topics relating to opening CC-first. Although there's no pro VoD in the guide itself, there are a couple of replays with Blink involved:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411141

http://drop.sc/334331 - a replay of me executing versus Blink.

Basically, you begin Marauder production earlier than might otherwise be normal, ensure the fringes of your base are clear once Medivacs come out, and then seize map control back while rallying to a location convenient for defending both natural and main. If he commits with Stalkers again, you pull SCVs and use all rallied units to ward off the Stalkers while you kill his base because he physically can't have adequate defenses against the threat of drops as well as frontal attacks AND getting the economy/tech he wants. There's just not enough stuff to go around.

If you can't confirm the location of the Stalker army or at least confirm it isn't within 10-second striking distance of your base, DON'T move out until you can. The key is to push him back for long enough that your reinforcements plus an SCV pull will hold any backstab, which means he just loses to the main army if he tries it, or you at least trade so equally and efficiently that your bio/Medivac force will win a battle of attrition.

Edit as of WCS EU Finals:

+ Show Spoiler +
Check out Game 6 of the finals between MMA and MC once they put the VoDs up (should be ESLTV's YouTube Channel). MMA holds off 1-base 4-gate Blink for 15 minutes straight while MC relentlessly tries to kill him after a completely standard CC-first play. Mind-blowing micro and decision-making on both sides of the game.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
October 06 2013 16:58 GMT
#3623
In MMA vs. Vortix, I saw an interesting 3-Factory play, making 5 Widow Mines at a time off 3 bases. Vortix didn't seem to have any timing windows at that part of the game or anything; Is there a reason that this isn't the standard way to play TvZ?
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Westy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
England808 Posts
October 06 2013 19:08 GMT
#3624
Hey guys, just wondering if there are any dropping guides out there? Switched to terran at beggining of HotS, made it to mid/high masters, but I still struggle with drops. As in, I just put everything into the two medivacs I want, then I have to try select the individual medivacs and unbind them from the control group, and then rebind them to a new one. It is very messy. Just wondering if there are any better ways to do it?
neko453
Profile Joined May 2013
8 Posts
October 06 2013 21:12 GMT
#3625
I think it was mentioned few days ago.
It works if you have one control group for Marine/Marauder and the other one for the whole army with Medivacs. So:
1.Select army hotkey
2.Send it where you want the drop to go
3.Hit MM hotkey
4.Right click on the medivacs
5.Hit the army hotkey and hold shift
6.Click on the loaded medivacs with left mouse button
7.Reset the hotkeys for army and MM and probably move your army elsewhere.

Hope it helps
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 00:00:37
October 06 2013 23:27 GMT
#3626
On October 07 2013 04:08 Westy wrote:
Hey guys, just wondering if there are any dropping guides out there? Switched to terran at beggining of HotS, made it to mid/high masters, but I still struggle with drops. As in, I just put everything into the two medivacs I want, then I have to try select the individual medivacs and unbind them from the control group, and then rebind them to a new one. It is very messy. Just wondering if there are any better ways to do it?


I was having the same issue and eventually just came up with (what I think is) my own fluid method. Only uses a single hotkey (bio+medivacs).

1) Using main army hotkey, send army on a move command. Doesn't matter where. (If you want, you can issue this move command in the direction you want to drop)

2) With your main army hotkey still selected, right click your army into a medivac as it's moving.

3) Very quickly after you load the medivac, with your main army hotkey still selected, shift-left click the medivac, which will remove it from your current unit selection.

4) Re-bind the selection back to your main army hotkey.

Entire procedure is done without de-selecting your main army, and should not interrupt the medivac's initial movement command. If done properly, it takes less than a second. This won't work with double drops though, you have to do each medivac individually. But with practice you can do this so fast that the second medivac will be right up there with the first medivac anyways.

(edit: anyone ever hear of this specific method? in-game it looks like your army briefly walks in a direction, then turns around while a single medivac keeps going, all within a fraction of a second. I don't think I've seen anyone else do it before.)
surreal1600
Profile Joined June 2013
United States33 Posts
October 07 2013 00:13 GMT
#3627
On October 06 2013 15:10 Doc Brawler wrote:
Hey guys I was wondering what some of the best options are for defending one base blink play with CC FIRST. I already feel comfortable with the tactics of retreating to the high ground pulling scvs, making a few bunkers in main but I would really like a vod or an exact build order to help with the defense and transition.


Heres a vod from Polt's stream on youtube :

Defending blink stalker all-in with cc first
First round's on me.
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8255 Posts
October 07 2013 04:48 GMT
#3628
On October 07 2013 09:13 surreal1600 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 15:10 Doc Brawler wrote:
Hey guys I was wondering what some of the best options are for defending one base blink play with CC FIRST. I already feel comfortable with the tactics of retreating to the high ground pulling scvs, making a few bunkers in main but I would really like a vod or an exact build order to help with the defense and transition.


Heres a vod from Polt's stream on youtube :

Defending blink stalker all-in with cc first

You forgot to add you need the control of Polt..
Doc Brawler
Profile Joined November 2011
United States260 Posts
October 07 2013 04:56 GMT
#3629
On October 07 2013 08:27 rd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2013 04:08 Westy wrote:
Hey guys, just wondering if there are any dropping guides out there? Switched to terran at beggining of HotS, made it to mid/high masters, but I still struggle with drops. As in, I just put everything into the two medivacs I want, then I have to try select the individual medivacs and unbind them from the control group, and then rebind them to a new one. It is very messy. Just wondering if there are any better ways to do it?


I was having the same issue and eventually just came up with (what I think is) my own fluid method. Only uses a single hotkey (bio+medivacs).

1) Using main army hotkey, send army on a move command. Doesn't matter where. (If you want, you can issue this move command in the direction you want to drop)

2) With your main army hotkey still selected, right click your army into a medivac as it's moving.

3) Very quickly after you load the medivac, with your main army hotkey still selected, shift-left click the medivac, which will remove it from your current unit selection.

4) Re-bind the selection back to your main army hotkey.

Entire procedure is done without de-selecting your main army, and should not interrupt the medivac's initial movement command. If done properly, it takes less than a second. This won't work with double drops though, you have to do each medivac individually. But with practice you can do this so fast that the second medivac will be right up there with the first medivac anyways.

(edit: anyone ever hear of this specific method? in-game it looks like your army briefly walks in a direction, then turns around while a single medivac keeps going, all within a fraction of a second. I don't think I've seen anyone else do it before.)

This is just how its done. I think everyone uses this method for a lot of things from transferring workers to sending out scouts and setting up drops.
I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds
Kvassten
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden159 Posts
October 07 2013 07:33 GMT
#3630
On October 07 2013 00:50 Jazzman88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 15:10 Doc Brawler wrote:
Hey guys I was wondering what some of the best options are for defending one base blink play with CC FIRST. I already feel comfortable with the tactics of retreating to the high ground pulling scvs, making a few bunkers in main but I would really like a vod or an exact build order to help with the defense and transition.


Hey there! I have a guide that deals extensively with this and other topics relating to opening CC-first. Although there's no pro VoD in the guide itself, there are a couple of replays with Blink involved:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411141

http://drop.sc/334331 - a replay of me executing versus Blink.

Basically, you begin Marauder production earlier than might otherwise be normal, ensure the fringes of your base are clear once Medivacs come out, and then seize map control back while rallying to a location convenient for defending both natural and main. If he commits with Stalkers again, you pull SCVs and use all rallied units to ward off the Stalkers while you kill his base because he physically can't have adequate defenses against the threat of drops as well as frontal attacks AND getting the economy/tech he wants. There's just not enough stuff to go around.

If you can't confirm the location of the Stalker army or at least confirm it isn't within 10-second striking distance of your base, DON'T move out until you can. The key is to push him back for long enough that your reinforcements plus an SCV pull will hold any backstab, which means he just loses to the main army if he tries it, or you at least trade so equally and efficiently that your bio/Medivac force will win a battle of attrition.

Edit as of WCS EU Finals:

Check out Game 6 of the finals between MMA and MC once they put the VoDs up (should be ESLTV's YouTube Channel). MMA holds off 1-base 4-gate Blink for 15 minutes straight while MC relentlessly tries to kill him after a completely standard CC-first play. Mind-blowing micro and decision-making on both sides of the game.


MC lost his mothership core which delayed the push almost a whole minute. I think MC would have won otherwise but yeah, great decision-making
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
October 07 2013 14:38 GMT
#3631
I'm not really too sure what happened/went wrong in this game. I know that at the very end, everything kinda just went wrong and I think losing my 5th(?) southern Planetary was probably what really did me in but I'm not too sure how to convert my advantage into something.

Also maybe the last part of moving out was a bad idea, I probably should've just established a base and just turtled till 200/200 or at least a bigger army?

http://drop.sc/361660

TvP
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
October 07 2013 18:26 GMT
#3632
I'm getting back into the game after a longish hiatus (quit WoL for school awhile ago, haven't really played much since HotS came out) and want to pick up the game again. For reference I was a plat almost diamond Terran.

What are some aggressive (but not necessarily) builds that i can do for each matchup to help build mechanics and micro? I played a super passive style before and want to change things up some.
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
October 07 2013 19:15 GMT
#3633
On October 08 2013 03:26 Effay wrote:
I'm getting back into the game after a longish hiatus (quit WoL for school awhile ago, haven't really played much since HotS came out) and want to pick up the game again. For reference I was a plat almost diamond Terran.

What are some aggressive (but not necessarily) builds that i can do for each matchup to help build mechanics and micro? I played a super passive style before and want to change things up some.


Reaper openings in every matchup would be a good way to build mechanics and multitasking, you can substitute that opening for a Banshee (gas first or otherwise) in TvT, to achieve the same result.
Requiem-
Profile Joined October 2011
Uruguay162 Posts
October 07 2013 23:19 GMT
#3634
On October 08 2013 03:26 Effay wrote:
I'm getting back into the game after a longish hiatus (quit WoL for school awhile ago, haven't really played much since HotS came out) and want to pick up the game again. For reference I was a plat almost diamond Terran.

What are some aggressive (but not necessarily) builds that i can do for each matchup to help build mechanics and micro? I played a super passive style before and want to change things up some.

1/1/1 TvT
1 rax fe TVP
14 CC TvZ(its the best :3 )
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sup Son
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 08 2013 07:20 GMT
#3635
I'm with the reaper openings every matchup for start. It's one standard in TvZ (reaper FE into 3cc) and it covers a lot of BS TvT and TvP with the scout and threat of 3ish worker kills. It feeds into basically every playstyle so you aren't extremely limited. Executing the strategy while scouting is a good drill of mechanics (as mau said) which is pretty much the best thing to drill as a Terran. Your mechanical superiority over a league is a great first step towards the next league. It even feeds into the semi-benchmark SQ Spending Quotient to check progress.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Razac
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands101 Posts
October 08 2013 18:52 GMT
#3636
Can anyone help me on finding the build order MMA used against Vortix in WCS EU semi's? If anyone has the replays that would even be better. Any replay from a top terran in TvZ using that would be welcome as well, thanks!
www.twitch.tv/razac_
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
October 08 2013 20:31 GMT
#3637
On October 09 2013 03:52 Razac wrote:
Can anyone help me on finding the build order MMA used against Vortix in WCS EU semi's? If anyone has the replays that would even be better. Any replay from a top terran in TvZ using that would be welcome as well, thanks!


This might help

http://terrancraft.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/review-mma-vs-vortix-wcs-eu-2013-season-3-ro4/
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
October 09 2013 19:46 GMT
#3638
i opened 1 rax cc into a 3 rax cs marine timing and managed to kill about 12 drones and a third before he got speed and killed my marines (~16)

is this worth it for me?
the zerg typed in chat and said it was a terrible trade for me?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Bulugulu
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel250 Posts
October 10 2013 00:40 GMT
#3639
On October 10 2013 04:46 mizU wrote:
i opened 1 rax cc into a 3 rax cs marine timing and managed to kill about 12 drones and a third before he got speed and killed my marines (~16)

is this worth it for me?
the zerg typed in chat and said it was a terrible trade for me?


It's a great trade for you as long as you take a 3rd behind it.
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
October 10 2013 02:20 GMT
#3640
Uh any time you kill zerg's third without severely limiting your own economy it's a win
¯\_(シ)_/¯
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