The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 181

On October 03 2013 20:29 Chaggi wrote:


Ah, I go reaper expand into 3 rax total w/ 2 with reactor and CS first. I've been using it since WoL which is pretty bad, but I've found that up until when Hellbats were super popular, it can hold pretty much every all in as long as I pull some SCVs, but w/ banshee coming faster and them being just super good, I found that I can't really hold the gas first banshee tank push. Just need a new build that can take me safely into the mid game because that's where I'm most confident in my TvT

On October 03 2013 20:38 mizU wrote:


I've found that 3 rax is pretty bad on most maps as you can get contained pretty easily, I'd really only recommend it on large maps as you can get a defensive tank out by the time the get to your natural (usually). You should think about changing your build a little though, maybe opting for single reactor and going for a faster factory. Also it's really hard to hold banshee tank pushes without vikings.

On October 03 2013 04:07 KingKayzz wrote:
@Mjolnir: Hey, I notice an overall lack of order in your build, especially on that second game.

You can get your hellions out alot earlier. Your first Hellion push-out in game 2 was at 9:13ish, where, if you had a more defined BO you could be pushing out with Hellions + Mines + 2 Medivacs + Marines at 11~ while still having a third cc being built.

The way I see it, you can follow cc rax gas into 2 kinds of medivac pushes that won't leave you behind. I got both of these builds from watching Maru games, though lately he has been using the second variant, as it still lets you push out early as hell, and put some pressure on the fourth/third.

1) cc rax gas fact rax rax starport

2) cc rax gas fact cc rax rax star (This is the one I use most often, I've included the most recent game I've seen Maru use it.)

Maru vs Kangho GSL group D (games start at 3:19): http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_gsl/b/465870774

Note: He doesn't open CC first, opting for double reapers instead, regardless, notice his pushout timings, while still paying close attention to his build order. You'll see a nice 11ish minute pushout after he starts his third CC.

The first variant, though, can bust a zerg third. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was designed to bust zerg thirds, as every pro I've seen use cc rax gas rax rax has always gone for a bust followed by a third.

HOPE I HELPED! GOOD LUCK!

On October 03 2013 05:05 Pirfiktshon wrote:
TvZ CC first has a couple ways of getting to the 11 minute timing and depending on what youwant to do will depend on how early your upgrades are. For instance if you go the Poltesk build with more of a map control theme behind your build then your upgrades will be a little delayed. If you go a normal 3CC build with economy as a center of your build then 6:45-7:00 is when you drop your 2 Ebays.....

On October 03 2013 06:06 Snusmumriken wrote:
Im playing around with avilos hellbat marauder build and it seems pretty decent. At least better than the shitty wolstyle I was trying (and failing with).

On October 03 2013 07:51 BurningRanger wrote:

Just a sidenote first. I think people are right to tell you that CC First is better than a Reaper Expand against Zerg, at least in your case (for me as well, but that doesn't matter here). Reaper Expand is a lot more micro and multitasking intensive. I suck at that and, if your mechanics aren't too well either, you shouldn't use an opening that relies heavily on them either.

Yes, people say Bio/Mine is THE way to play TvZ, but that's either because their mechanics are good enough to pull it off or just because the Top players do it and they think there's no other way.
What keeps me in this game and my will to play up is the possibility to play like I want to. I'm at around the same level as you are and get my rear handed to me a lot, but I invent my own playstyle, my own strategies and build orders. I constantly change them, refine them, discard them and start again... learning what I can pull off when and what not. It makes kind of proud when you see a strategy work out really well, then it hits you hard when it's smashed into the ground by the next opponent. But you learn what you have to change and are proud, when it works out again.
If you're sick of playing a style that doesn't fit you, just because others tell you that you should play that, then stop and do something else. Do your own thing. I don't play Bio/Mine even though my Clanmates always told me to, because I know my hands are too slow and my multitasking is too horrible to make it work. I play Mech with my very own BO and even some better mates were quite impressed, when they saw it, and said they'd take it into their repertoire. That is what keeps me playing and improving.

Now a little more specific to your questions although some may be answered already by the above or are more from a Mech play perspective.
1) If the Zerg didn't attack before, I usually play a 10 minute push with ~20 Marines, 4 Tanks and ~8 BF-Hellions. At that time he usually has a 3rd up, which I can kill. He has Mutas, but not too many so he can't just ignore the Marines. Anything on the ground can be dealt with quite well by that combination apart from a crapload of Roaches maybe. When you take out their 3rd and your attack is over, Zergs usually want to drone up hard, because they think there can't come too much more. So during that push I build up for some Hellbat drops (add Armory and Starport for Hellbats and Medivacs) and start them right after the push is over. This will hurt their eco even more and keep them from taking the whole map carelessly. Apart from killing their drones, it will make them invest into more defense. From here on it depends very much on the Zerg's reaction. Usually it's Hellbats (as mineral sink) with either Tanks or Thors or a mix of both with some Air support (usually Ravens).
2) As my opening gets Tanks early, there's quite much nothing to fear. I scout, if the Zerg expands early, and that's it. I wall my main first and then my natural as well. With a Bunker or two, a few Tanks and SCVs repairing behind a depot wall, you can hold nearly anything that a Zerg on your level can throw at you in the earlygame. Imo on our level you don't need to pin the Zerg on his exact strategy (not like you have to do in TvP with all their different early pressure builds).
3) As I play Mech, I can't really tell you too sure, but I find Mines too micro heavy. Hellbats are not, so you may want to try these instead. They eat any Ling/Bling and are healed by Medivacs as well. You may need more Marines as anti-air though.
4) Mech units are very powerfull. You can max out a Mech army on 3 bases quite well. So you don't have to care about counters, runbys or harass too much. As Mech is more gas-heavy you can make outer bases PFs instead of OCs (don't need so many MULEs) and you can build turret rings. Wall expansions in with depots. PFs and Depot walls can be used with Bio, too, to buy time for your quick Bio units to run in for the rescue.
5) I take the 3rd during my 10min push or the Hellbat drops. Anyways, while keeping the Zerg busy until I have it settled and defenses/walls are up.
6) Around the time, when I'm taking the 3rd, I start getting upgrades (if the 3rd gets blocked, don't forget to get upgrades still).
7) As long as there are few Mutas, Hellbat drops and/or Hellion runbys are great to kill drones. When going Mech, you don't need to harass that much. Even with Bio I'd argue that you shouldn't harass, if you can't do it (mechanically) or Zerg has too good defenses (Mutas, Spores, Spines) up. Keep your stuff together and push him hard instead of giving him full Medivacs for free.

I hope this helps you a little. GL

On October 04 2013 04:18 Snusmumriken wrote:
ive tried the avilo build for a little bit and its not working at all. It pretty much only works if they go for colossi, if they do anything else its shit. Anyone with better experiences?

On October 04 2013 17:05 IMR wrote:
Assuming that they took the far 3rd and the highground inside expansion as their 4th, I always push the 4th.

On October 04 2013 16:40 Chaggi wrote:
Played a TvZ on Whirlwind and this is the map that always confuses me. When a Zerg takes a 4th and is X-positions, do you push that 4th still or do you go for the 3rd? Assuming the 4th is stupidly far away.

On October 05 2013 20:02 TheDwf wrote:

Instead of adding 2 extra rax, go 1-1-1 yourself (Marines/Tanks/Vikings) after your Reaper expand and you will hold easily. From memory, check Flash vs MMA, Neo Planet S, Dreamhack Bucharest; he defended out of gas 15 expand, but replace the Reaper with 2 Marines and gas 15 with gas 12 and here you go.