EPTPS Think back to antiga shipyard where every single zerg was just busting terrans on 3 base, and the only way to hold it was to bunker up in front of your natural.
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 177
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
PS Think back to antiga shipyard where every single zerg was just busting terrans on 3 base, and the only way to hold it was to bunker up in front of your natural. | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
On September 24 2013 02:06 SSVnormandy wrote: Hi guys, Sorry to bother you but are there other alternatives than open banshee nowadays? I always play forGG build even skipping medivac to get viking but i don't figure how to have better econ than a simple banshee opening into expansion. I always have to throw a scan to see if he don't follow it with 1/1/1 wit tanks and when i scout expo i basically waisted 3 mules in total (2 for banshees 1 to make sure he dont 1/1/1 and i am behind in case he macro. Should i go banshee myself or maybe 1 rax expo and stop forGG build? getting turrets up before 8 min is the best way to shut down gas first banshee if going 15 gas. By scanning before your second orbital is done, you need to identify if banshees are possible. scv scouting early to check gas timing and sticking around to see where he plops down the factory makes the scan location and timing easier. Hope that helps | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On September 26 2013 07:52 Doc Brawler wrote: getting turrets up before 8 min is the best way to shut down gas first banshee if going 15 gas. By scanning before your second orbital is done, you need to identify if banshees are possible. scv scouting early to check gas timing and sticking around to see where he plops down the factory makes the scan location and timing easier. Hope that helps 8 min turret to shut down gas first banshee... Serious? | ||
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Slydie
1929 Posts
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 26 2013 02:08 Doc Brawler wrote: Hey guys, I a question about putting only one marine in bunkers against zerg. I see Polt do this alot -he did it against revival yesterday- where he gets like 4 bunkers and puts only one marine in each bunker and fights with the rest of his army outside the bunkers? And this is when he is getting attacked by pure roaches with no blings btw. Is it easier to micro this way e.g. stimming, kiting? Or is something else? There are two reasons to do this, one is it creates the illusion that your army is larger since he can't know how many marines are in each bunker. Second, when a bunker dies it's hard to save the units inside especially versus banelings so keeping the front bunkers with just 1 marine forces him to spend time attacking them and you only lose 1 unit when they die. | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 26 2013 01:42 Westy wrote: Mid-high masters terran here (top 25) I need help with this obnoxious roach max in TvZ. If I open CC first into reacter hellions and third cc into 5 rax and double upgrades with widow mines and medivacs, I cannot hold the 3 base roach max with double upgrades. Comes around the 12/13 minute mark. If I can scout it, then sure I just bunker up and go siege tanks. But I don't see how you are supposed to scout it without blindly scanning all around the map trying to see his slowly massing roach army. So, how do I scout it? And then how do I hold? Last game I saw it comes as early as I could (Hellions at edge of creep) and lifted third saved all scvs and just held the top of my ramp. But then he just gets hydras, 2-2 and a fourth and destroys me with the follow up if I ever try and take my third. With your first hellions, poke his front and check for the double evos.. if you see a roach warren you should start getting suspicious that this might come obviously.Then you wanna scan his main/nat at around 11:00-12:00 at which points tells for this will be roaches coming out of larvae (obviously), many larvae are saved or 1-1 upgrades for roaches. Another option is, if you already see him pumping out some roaches but you're not sure how many he's going to get - or if you see the roach warren really early - is suicide your hellions in (ideally when you have 4 and you switch to WM/tank). You'll fry some drones and hopefully get some scouting to whether he's producing more roaches. The hellions will be useless versus the roaches anyway. If you're just a bit suspicious add a couple of bunkers and keep poking around. If you survive this allin but took damage, don't despair - quickly assess where your advantage lies. If he lost many roaches, and he's switching to hydra - maybe you can break his front, especially if he neglected creep spread. If he still has many roaches - try to abuse him with drops while getting a good composition/economy/upgrds back home. Oh and if he doesn't get ling speed that's also a big tell. Also while defending if he drives you back to your nat/main try to buy time running your scvs and building a sufficient bio/tank count in your main. I like to run the scvs from my 3rd around the map a bit and often the zerg will make mistakes in this situation and lose too much trying to go up your ramp. A big mistake is taking all your scvs and engaging them in a losing battle. I find that they're not that useful versus a very large roach count unless they're repairing. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On September 26 2013 08:44 iAmJeffReY wrote: 8 min turret to shut down gas first banshee... Serious? LOL 7 minute ebay Standard | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
against gas first you need a 6:45 Ebay and instant turrets and you should be fine against gas first banshees | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On September 27 2013 02:36 saaaa wrote: against gas first you need a 6:45 Ebay and instant turrets and you should be fine against gas first banshees Or just save 1 scan in order to buy time for your raven to come out. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On September 27 2013 08:29 A Wild Sosd wrote: Anyone have any tips vs for engaging in TvZ? Avoid being on creep. Scan ahead to scout for flanks etc. I like to do like I see QXC and move mine + bio all together, and when the big 'split up' comes, I split everything up, then burrow mines, then stim and further split my marines. Kite back over mines, and keep a nice large concave and spread. Usually if you're pre split and set up, you can move 1-2 mines forward with a small group of marines to bait him to charge in. If he has misplaced banes, or mutas, or infestors pick them off to force their hand. If he's baneling heavy, and you have marauders, use them as forward tanks and keep everything behind and keep splitting the marines, ignoring the marauders. Don't clump up your widow mines. Always know where mutas are. If they're harassing, you can be more brazen in your attempts to bait a charge in. Sometimes you can ambush mutas if you know the route they're going to take to your engagement, and place a few widow mines in their path. Drops do great to pull zergs apart. I like 6 marine 1 mine, or 8 marines, or double drop of 8 marines and 4 mines. Makes it so zergs can't just 1a in to clear up the drop. I also mix in hellbats mid game and get blue flame, so I go 8 marine 2 hellbat, or 8 marine 4 mine, and both take different ways to stop the drop. You can't just 1a in mass lings vs 8 marines and 2 hellbats. They'll ROAST. Just avoid creep, and always scan around you. Stim 1-2 marines and run them move command forward and to flank positions to keep his army count and location in check. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
I'm lost and I'm frustrated. TvZ - I have no idea what to do. Everyone online says "OMG TvZ is so easy for Terran - Terran OP vs Zerg" and I just don't see it. I don't know how, I don't know why they think this, and I certainly can't play it that way. Hell - I can't play it so it's even. They say harass. I try to harass but it seems Zergs know exactly what's coming. Either reaper, hellion, or banshee. It seems Queens shut down all of those. This is what happens to me - every. freaking. game. - I open reaper expand or CC first (builds I was advised were ideal to learn). - I try to harass with reaper get a few drone kills and expand. - I go to hellion, often I will kill a bunch of drones - eventually I'm forced out. - It is this point where things fall apart. I can't harass. Drops are stopped with ling/spore/spine/queen. - Zerg gets muta/bane. - Zerg harasses me. - Zerg runs the map while I defend. - I finally have enough to push out, Zerg has a huge army. - Zerg on the way to Hive - usually Ultras. - I'm stuck on 3 bases while Zerg owns the map and starts telling me what a noob I am. So the question is... What the hell do you do when your harass (which I gather is essential) fails? When your efforts are defended - and they're massing muta/ling/bane - what do you do? How the hell do you compete with that? I know I must just suck. I try split drops, splitting from banes, etc. but they just fly in with overseers and a huge ball of stuff and just smash me. Widowmines be damned - they just plow right over it all. Yes, I'm in scrub league as Terran. I just don't know what to do. I get that I have to harass and slow their 3rd/4th - and try to keep them even on workers. Then what? What if that fails? They always have more stuff! Christ, I suck so hard. I'm so frustrated right now. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On September 27 2013 10:48 Mjolnir wrote: I'm lost and I'm frustrated. TvZ - I have no idea what to do. Everyone online says "OMG TvZ is so easy for Terran - Terran OP vs Zerg" and I just don't see it. I don't know how, I don't know why they think this, and I certainly can't play it that way. Hell - I can't play it so it's even. They say harass. I try to harass but it seems Zergs know exactly what's coming. Either reaper, hellion, or banshee. It seems Queens shut down all of those. This is what happens to me - every. freaking. game. - I open reaper expand or CC first (builds I was advised were ideal to learn). - I try to harass with reaper get a few drone kills and expand. - I go to hellion, often I will kill a bunch of drones - eventually I'm forced out. - It is this point where things fall apart. I can't harass. Drops are stopped with ling/spore/spine/queen. - Zerg gets muta/bane. - Zerg harasses me. - Zerg runs the map while I defend. - I finally have enough to push out, Zerg has a huge army. - Zerg on the way to Hive - usually Ultras. - I'm stuck on 3 bases while Zerg owns the map and starts telling me what a noob I am. So the question is... What the hell do you do when your harass (which I gather is essential) fails? When your efforts are defended - and they're massing muta/ling/bane - what do you do? How the hell do you compete with that? I know I must just suck. I try split drops, splitting from banes, etc. but they just fly in with overseers and a huge ball of stuff and just smash me. Widowmines be damned - they just plow right over it all. Yes, I'm in scrub league as Terran. I just don't know what to do. I get that I have to harass and slow their 3rd/4th - and try to keep them even on workers. Then what? What if that fails? They always have more stuff! Christ, I suck so hard. I'm so frustrated right now. A replay would be good. A good way to play TvZ is push the front while dropping the Main and 3rd. Try and always put on pressure so they dont have the breathing room to get to hive. If you keep putting on pressure you should be able to force a mistake eventually. Also make sure your rax are always producing no matter what. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On September 27 2013 11:17 A Wild Sosd wrote: A replay would be good. A good way to play TvZ is push the front while dropping the Main and 3rd. Try and always put on pressure so they dont have the breathing room to get to hive. If you keep putting on pressure you should be able to force a mistake eventually. Also make sure your rax are always producing no matter what. But that's the thing - they have so much stuff. If I split they just overwhelm mid and clean up the drops. I guess I just suck - I feel like no matter what I do, I'm ALWAYS behind. I'll try to find a replay and link it. In the meantime, should I be trying CC first or Reaper Expand builds or are there better options? | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On September 27 2013 10:48 Mjolnir wrote: I'm lost and I'm frustrated. TvZ - I have no idea what to do. Everyone online says "OMG TvZ is so easy for Terran - Terran OP vs Zerg" and I just don't see it. I don't know how, I don't know why they think this, and I certainly can't play it that way. Hell - I can't play it so it's even. They say harass. I try to harass but it seems Zergs know exactly what's coming. Either reaper, hellion, or banshee. It seems Queens shut down all of those. This is what happens to me - every. freaking. game. - I open reaper expand or CC first (builds I was advised were ideal to learn). - I try to harass with reaper get a few drone kills and expand. - I go to hellion, often I will kill a bunch of drones - eventually I'm forced out. - It is this point where things fall apart. I can't harass. Drops are stopped with ling/spore/spine/queen. - Zerg gets muta/bane. - Zerg harasses me. - Zerg runs the map while I defend. - I finally have enough to push out, Zerg has a huge army. - Zerg on the way to Hive - usually Ultras. - I'm stuck on 3 bases while Zerg owns the map and starts telling me what a noob I am. So the question is... What the hell do you do when your harass (which I gather is essential) fails? When your efforts are defended - and they're massing muta/ling/bane - what do you do? How the hell do you compete with that? I know I must just suck. I try split drops, splitting from banes, etc. but they just fly in with overseers and a huge ball of stuff and just smash me. Widowmines be damned - they just plow right over it all. Yes, I'm in scrub league as Terran. I just don't know what to do. I get that I have to harass and slow their 3rd/4th - and try to keep them even on workers. Then what? What if that fails? They always have more stuff! Christ, I suck so hard. I'm so frustrated right now. 1) Post a replay 2) You may be expecting too much from the hellion contain/reapers. The biggest part of reaper play (though i always open CC first and never reaper) is to delay their third for as long as possible. A drone is nice, but unessencial for a successful opening. Lings are okay too, but the biggest thing you want to do with reaper is slow down their third. Will a hellion opening you only want to roast drones if they are being exceptionally greedy. Most of the time you just use them to slow creepspread, force some lings and, most importantly, defend your third from mass ling play. These hellions do not need to do direct damage. 3) You never really want to send out a drop on its own to "do damage." The biggest purpose of drops are to either buy time so you can build up enough of an army to fight what he has (ex: lots of marauders vs ultras, vikings vs BLs). You can also send out a drop while u push with your main army and force him to split, allowing you to push more aggressively and clear creep/establish position, or if he doenst deal with the drop, do econ damage. The third thing u can do with drops is snipe morphing hatcheries. But in my experience, you don't need to drop. In fact, my TvZ winrate is pretty solid at the moment, and the majority of my games involve no drops at all. Just a lot of frontal attacks and good army movement to keep his econ low/apply pressure and delay hive tech.] To answer the question you posted while i wrote this: It comes down to personal preference. If your multitasking and control is good, you can go reaper. If you aren't as confident or notice yourself floating money with reaper openings, feel free to go CC first. Some maps (like whirlwind) favor CC first because the rush distance with the reaper makes it hard to get anything done. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 23 2013 00:19 Dzerzhinsky wrote: Thors can deal with BCs in low numbers (if they don't have Yamato), but as the numbers increase they become very very bad. Thors are really only a short-term solution to SkyTerran (and not even that if you use Tanks with your Sky army). Mines can mess you up, but only if you let them. Keep out of range, launch a couple of HSMs at them, split if your BCs get caught out, and you should be fine. in fact this style is still viable? How do i transition in this style correct? still out of 3 Fac? thx | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9420 Posts
On September 27 2013 12:18 Mjolnir wrote: But that's the thing - they have so much stuff. If I split they just overwhelm mid and clean up the drops. I guess I just suck - I feel like no matter what I do, I'm ALWAYS behind. I'll try to find a replay and link it. In the meantime, should I be trying CC first or Reaper Expand builds or are there better options? I think your approach is a bit off. The early game harass isn't really meant to do direct damage. Hellions should really just be there to deny creep and poke a bit at Queens --> Force lings. Meanwhile your build needs to be very ecofocussed as well (3 CC opening). Chances are that your actually "all-ining" on the early game harass while not having the neccesary eco behind it. | ||
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WreckXL
United States1 Post
also would like to thank you all for the abundance of information here. Just recently started playing starcraft and I would be even more lost without all the hard work that has been contributed to this site. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On September 28 2013 00:24 WreckXL wrote: is there a chart or guide anywhere that shows which units are most effective against which enemy units? Would be nice to have something to reference after i lose so I can see if my army comp was off on top of the many other mistakes i make throughout the game. If you go in-game on the main menu screen. Do the following: Options > Help > Terran Units Then when you click a unit shows what it is strong/weak against  | ||
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