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On September 23 2013 01:51 AyaaLa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 22:12 Bulugulu wrote:On September 22 2013 21:03 AyaaLa wrote:
I am horrible at TvZ atm. I am a master terran on eu. I do copy Innovations tvz, but i guess my micro, macro and execution is horrible because is fail everytime I push.. is it something else than biomine I can do in tvz nowdays?
my tvp is 67%, tvt 53% and Tvz 38% -.- Do you lose more to allins or your pushes are just failing? And by innovations build you mean CC first? I lose to allins, macroplays etc. and my pushes are generally horrible. I think my main issue is the execution. I got faced up against Lowely in the WCS qualifier yesterday and I totally choked. It was embarrasing. I tend to do cc first and some times reaper expand. But I am not good at being turtly at the begining and nothing works. I tried mech for the first time in months and it worked barely. It isnt actually stille viable? Svarmhost + vipers crushes it easily? If anyone has some good replays i would appreciate it. thanks.
Mech isn't viable, and there's no need to turn to it 'cause 4M is really strong. Personally I use CC first on 4 player maps and reaper expand on 2 player maps.
Reaper expand is just a better build for ladder imo, it allows you to capitalize on superior multitasking early on and you get nice scouting information.
With CC first make sure you scout around 16-17, and if you fail to get into their main you probably want to scan them around 5-5:30ish.
Another big factor of whether or not your pushes work is if you switch your starport into reactor, or build one.
Personally I had a big problem with my pushes because I stopped widow mine production to get earlier medivacs (put staroprt into the fact reactor), and this meant much lower widow mine numbers.
If you continue to produce widow mines, your push will be a bit later but you'll have about 10 widow mines. Your push with CC first should go out at 11:30ish with about 130ish supply, and about 10 widow mines. If you hit this benchmark you should be pretty good. Don't go for the kill and just aggressively deny creep and work towards his most vulnerable expansion, usually his 4th by this point.
Also if your opponent takes an early 3rd base, fly your 3rd CC to your 3rd immediately when it's done (about 8 mins with CC first).
On another note if you want an alternative to this style which handles all-ins/roach play effectively try flash's CC first into hellbat drop into rauder hellbat allin (+2rax, no engi bays or 3rd, constant medivacs.)
This allin is quite strong if you retain your first 4 hellions and hellbats, and stomps early roach/pure ling play.)
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On September 23 2013 02:28 Bulugulu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 01:51 AyaaLa wrote:On September 22 2013 22:12 Bulugulu wrote:On September 22 2013 21:03 AyaaLa wrote:
I am horrible at TvZ atm. I am a master terran on eu. I do copy Innovations tvz, but i guess my micro, macro and execution is horrible because is fail everytime I push.. is it something else than biomine I can do in tvz nowdays?
my tvp is 67%, tvt 53% and Tvz 38% -.- Do you lose more to allins or your pushes are just failing? And by innovations build you mean CC first? I lose to allins, macroplays etc. and my pushes are generally horrible. I think my main issue is the execution. I got faced up against Lowely in the WCS qualifier yesterday and I totally choked. It was embarrasing. I tend to do cc first and some times reaper expand. But I am not good at being turtly at the begining and nothing works. I tried mech for the first time in months and it worked barely. It isnt actually stille viable? Svarmhost + vipers crushes it easily? If anyone has some good replays i would appreciate it. thanks. Mech isn't viable, and there's no need to turn to it 'cause 4M is really strong. Personally I use CC first on 4 player maps and reaper expand on 2 player maps. Reaper expand is just a better build for ladder imo, it allows you to capitalize on superior multitasking early on and you get nice scouting information. With CC first make sure you scout around 16-17, and if you fail to get into their main you probably want to scan them around 5-5:30ish. Another big factor of whether or not your pushes work is if you switch your starport into reactor, or build one. Personally I had a big problem with my pushes because I stopped widow mine production to get earlier medivacs (put staroprt into the fact reactor), and this meant much lower widow mine numbers. If you continue to produce widow mines, your push will be a bit later but you'll have about 10 widow mines. Your push with CC first should go out at 11:30ish with about 130ish supply, and about 10 widow mines. If you hit this benchmark you should be pretty good. Don't go for the kill and just aggressively deny creep and work towards his most vulnerable expansion, usually his 4th by this point. Also if your opponent takes an early 3rd base, fly your 3rd CC to your 3rd immediately when it's done (about 8 mins with CC first). On another note if you want an alternative to this style which handles all-ins/roach play effectively try flash's CC first into hellbat drop into rauder hellbat allin (+2rax, no engi bays or 3rd, constant medivacs.) This allin is quite strong if you retain your first 4 hellions and hellbats, and stomps early roach/pure ling play.)
Thanks! I actually managed to win TvZ for first time this weekend after i followed your advice.
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I feel like I'm not too sure on how to macro during engagements, especially TvP. Any advice for that?
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On September 22 2013 11:18 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 10:53 Requiem- wrote:
Which is the easier 4M for a low lvl player(silver/gold)?
and which is the best tvt build right now(easier as posible :p)
at low level TvZ, I'd go bio + hellbat tbh. Just leave hellbats, control click all marines and stim run them away when ling bling muta comes in. Hellbats tank like a mother fucker, and even eat up a few banes per. Less micro needed than 4M, imo. Not to mention you can game change with a medivac and 2 hellbats later. 2 hellbat 8 marine drops can't be cleaned up by lings alone, etc etc. Plus, with 5 rax and 2 fac and 1 port, off 3 base, you can take 4 gas, and double upgrade + armor for hellbats and constantly churn out 9 marines, 4 hellbats, and 2 medivacs per cycle. Makes remaxing very easy if you slip up on macro. That's almost 1.1k minerals, and VERY gas light.
When/how do you get the BF on your hellbats, say if you open with Inno CC first BO?
Sounds quite interesting to me because I am awful at 4M 
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On September 23 2013 07:35 Marathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 11:18 iAmJeffReY wrote:On September 22 2013 10:53 Requiem- wrote:
Which is the easier 4M for a low lvl player(silver/gold)?
and which is the best tvt build right now(easier as posible :p)
at low level TvZ, I'd go bio + hellbat tbh. Just leave hellbats, control click all marines and stim run them away when ling bling muta comes in. Hellbats tank like a mother fucker, and even eat up a few banes per. Less micro needed than 4M, imo. Not to mention you can game change with a medivac and 2 hellbats later. 2 hellbat 8 marine drops can't be cleaned up by lings alone, etc etc. Plus, with 5 rax and 2 fac and 1 port, off 3 base, you can take 4 gas, and double upgrade + armor for hellbats and constantly churn out 9 marines, 4 hellbats, and 2 medivacs per cycle. Makes remaxing very easy if you slip up on macro. That's almost 1.1k minerals, and VERY gas light. When/how do you get the BF on your hellbats, say if you open with Inno CC first BO? Sounds quite interesting to me because I am awful at 4M
I don't do CC first, but I imagine just do typical rax fac 3 OC then drop 2 more raxes and double ebay.
I get bf adding 2nd fac after 5 raxes are done, and getting tech lab and blue flame.
I go 4M now, but I used to do it as someone said right above, just find an old demu vod. I went 11/11 raxgas then 2 reaper -> 6 hellion -> 3 OC -> widowmines + the 4 other raxes and double ebay.
illusion did a cool game (i think it was him) against catz on WW where he opened with hellbat drops and raped face. It was a good game I think I'm gonna copy and bite some style
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A total noob question here but... I recently took some basic builds and learned them in an out by playing over and over on ai very easy so that anyone that doesn't cheese me I can usually win in under 20 minutes. GGtracker says that on average I have a diamond level of resource spending. I am high bronze right now.
SO....
I think my problem now is that I am just doing one build for each race (Safe rax>expand>fac>SP for TvP / Marine Hellion expand for TvT /and Marine Hellion timing attack for TvZ) but ALL of them are Rax>CC builds. So if someone one base all in's me and isn't a complete noob I lose.
Currently I don't scout because I saw a post that said that scouting is overrated in early leagues because A) you lose track of your macro while trying to micro your scout and B) you can't always tell what people are doing because they might go double gas early then only build marines.
As I said, I have been winning about 70% of my games but I feel like if I could scout and accurately understand what they are doing I might actually get a promotion to silver. Any pointers on how to spot certain things or one base all ins. How to practice spotting and reacting to different builds. Anything would be helpful.
Thank you!
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On September 23 2013 11:00 mygodsnameiskyle wrote:
A total noob question here but... I recently took some basic builds and learned them in an out by playing over and over on ai very easy so that anyone that doesn't cheese me I can usually win in under 20 minutes. GGtracker says that on average I have a diamond level of resource spending. I am high bronze right now.
SO....
I think my problem now is that I am just doing one build for each race (Safe rax>expand>fac>SP for TvP / Marine Hellion expand for TvT /and Marine Hellion timing attack for TvZ) but ALL of them are Rax>CC builds. So if someone one base all in's me and isn't a complete noob I lose.
Currently I don't scout because I saw a post that said that scouting is overrated in early leagues because A) you lose track of your macro while trying to micro your scout and B) you can't always tell what people are doing because they might go double gas early then only build marines.
As I said, I have been winning about 70% of my games but I feel like if I could scout and accurately understand what they are doing I might actually get a promotion to silver. Any pointers on how to spot certain things or one base all ins. How to practice spotting and reacting to different builds. Anything would be helpful.
Thank you!
You shouldn't rely that much on the spending skill on gg tracker. However, 70% win ratio is insanely good so you should be silver in 10 games or so if you maintain that win ratio. I don't think you need to change anything at all right now. If you get stuck, post a replay and I will try to help you
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On September 23 2013 11:00 mygodsnameiskyle wrote:
As I said, I have been winning about 70% of my games but I feel like if I could scout and accurately understand what they are doing I might actually get a promotion to silver. Any pointers on how to spot certain things or one base all ins. How to practice spotting and reacting to different builds. Anything would be helpful.
Thank you!
I'm a former Master-meching player, learning standard-bio playstyle now, starting from zero (never played bio, ever), not knowing any BOs, timings, or anything else really, and here's my 2 cents to you:
I know people keep saying to work on mechanics and macro, and don't bother scouting, etc. They are actually right, I easily got to platinum in the EU server (on my friend's bronze account) just by macroing and attacking, didn't bother scouting at all. I only started implementing basic scouting into my game when I got top platinum and started facing Diamonds, and I got promoted the next day.
Here's what happens: you'll be practicing your FE builds and SOMETIMES you'll lose to allins or random attacks. Don't let that discourage you, type "GG WP" and queue up the next game. You won't have 100% winrate anyway, so even if sometimes you lose to random shit that makes your build look bad, just keep playing, don't bother scouting until you're at least Plat, by then you'll already have developed a stronger game sense, your mechanics will be better and you'l be able to start reacting properly without messing up your macro/build.
Terran bio is really demanding mechanically but also very rewarding in this aspect, there isn't much adaption to be done, properly executing builds and timings is hard at first will get you very far. Just keep practicing your builds until you can do them properly, play it like the AI, don't care about what the opponent is doing in the early-mid game because it won't matter, well executed FE builds will give you a positive winrate regardless of league (maybe not in TvT).
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I'd like to object on the scouting matter a bit.
I think it's good to send a scouting SCV off even in lower leagues. Just use the one that builds the Rax and set waypoints around the map, while it's building the Rax and you have nothing else to do. You don't even have to look at it too much, while it's on the way. Just check basic things like, if the opponent is expanding early or not. If he's not, he may want to attack you early. Setting up a little more defense (like Bunkers) won't hurt, because he's behind in eco anyways, if he's expanding later.
Another reason is that you should calculate that scouting SCV out of your builds. Right now you're practicing and refining a build that has that SCV collect minerals. When you finally start sending a scout SCV, your build will be thrown off, even if just slightly, because you have one SCV less collecting minerals.
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Hi guys,
Sorry to bother you but are there other alternatives than open banshee nowadays? I always play forGG build even skipping medivac to get viking but i don't figure how to have better econ than a simple banshee opening into expansion. I always have to throw a scan to see if he don't follow it with 1/1/1 wit tanks and when i scout expo i basically waisted 3 mules in total (2 for banshees 1 to make sure he dont 1/1/1 and i am behind in case he macro.
Should i go banshee myself or maybe 1 rax expo and stop forGG build?
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Canada8159 Posts
On September 24 2013 02:06 SSVnormandy wrote:
Hi guys,
Sorry to bother you but are there other alternatives than open banshee nowadays? I always play forGG build even skipping medivac to get viking but i don't figure how to have better econ than a simple banshee opening into expansion. I always have to throw a scan to see if he don't follow it with 1/1/1 wit tanks and when i scout expo i basically waisted 3 mules in total (2 for banshees 1 to make sure he dont 1/1/1 and i am behind in case he macro.
Should i go banshee myself or maybe 1 rax expo and stop forGG build?
Talking about TvT im assuming?
I go for a reactor on my barracks first then drop a CC, you'll have plenty of marines out for the banshee timing + your engi bay will be done so turrets can be added. Then you can either 3 rax or 1/1/1 yourself + it allows for a pretty early 3rd CC
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On September 24 2013 02:06 SSVnormandy wrote:
Hi guys,
Sorry to bother you but are there other alternatives than open banshee nowadays? I always play forGG build even skipping medivac to get viking but i don't figure how to have better econ than a simple banshee opening into expansion. I always have to throw a scan to see if he don't follow it with 1/1/1 wit tanks and when i scout expo i basically waisted 3 mules in total (2 for banshees 1 to make sure he dont 1/1/1 and i am behind in case he macro.
Should i go banshee myself or maybe 1 rax expo and stop forGG build?
Odd, seeing as the ForGG build is a direct (soft) counter to a banshee opening. Mind posting a replay so we can see what's going on? More likely then not its a simple macro error, or incorrect use of hellions to scout resulting in burning OC energy to scan, which puts you back economically.
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Lol so if WMs do get nerfed to 1.1 radius instead of 1.75, I might just switch back to hellbat-bio.
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which is the easiest build for tvp right now? and is there a Bio for TvT?
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On September 24 2013 02:18 Sajaki wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 02:06 SSVnormandy wrote:
Hi guys,
Sorry to bother you but are there other alternatives than open banshee nowadays? I always play forGG build even skipping medivac to get viking but i don't figure how to have better econ than a simple banshee opening into expansion. I always have to throw a scan to see if he don't follow it with 1/1/1 wit tanks and when i scout expo i basically waisted 3 mules in total (2 for banshees 1 to make sure he dont 1/1/1 and i am behind in case he macro.
Should i go banshee myself or maybe 1 rax expo and stop forGG build? Odd, seeing as the ForGG build is a direct (soft) counter to a banshee opening. Mind posting a replay so we can see what's going on? More likely then not its a simple macro error, or incorrect use of hellions to scout resulting in burning OC energy to scan, which puts you back economically.
Probably gas first banshee into aggressive tank marine push. I feel that the forgg build isn't as strong as just going second gas after fact then getting a fast raven and defending with marines / raven.
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Any tips on defending helion drops? I usually go 15 gas reactor FE 1-1-1.
Also the 1-1-1 expo has a lot of options. As my multitasking is way worse than my macro I go viking, tank, raven and turtle, but those helion drops...
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On September 25 2013 02:52 Slydie wrote:
Any tips on defending helion drops? I usually go 15 gas reactor FE 1-1-1.
Also the 1-1-1 expo has a lot of options. As my multitasking is way worse than my macro I go viking, tank, raven and turtle, but those helion drops...
I open a similar gas first 1-1-1, the way I defend is have my tanks + most of my marines at the front. Raven+ two vikings guarding the main from drop, and some marines (5-6) at the edge of my natural behind the gasses where a drop/banshee would come.
This pretty much covers all the angles.
One thing that he can do is boost his medivacs past your vikings but if you pull your scvs away in time and his medivacs dies to the vikings you shouldn't take too many losses.
If you wanna be really safe you could put some marines in your main in addition to the vikings which would ensure a medivac kill but that will leave you a bit more vulnerable at the front.
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Mid-high masters terran here (top 25)
I need help with this obnoxious roach max in TvZ. If I open CC first into reacter hellions and third cc into 5 rax and double upgrades with widow mines and medivacs, I cannot hold the 3 base roach max with double upgrades. Comes around the 12/13 minute mark. If I can scout it, then sure I just bunker up and go siege tanks. But I don't see how you are supposed to scout it without blindly scanning all around the map trying to see his slowly massing roach army.
So, how do I scout it? And then how do I hold? Last game I saw it comes as early as I could (Hellions at edge of creep) and lifted third saved all scvs and just held the top of my ramp. But then he just gets hydras, 2-2 and a fourth and destroys me with the follow up if I ever try and take my third.
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Hey guys, I a question about putting only one marine in bunkers against zerg. I see Polt do this alot -he did it against revival yesterday- where he gets like 4 bunkers and puts only one marine in each bunker and fights with the rest of his army outside the bunkers? And this is when he is getting attacked by pure roaches with no blings btw. Is it easier to micro this way e.g. stimming, kiting? Or is something else?
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Are you not doing poking attacks? If you are poking the front and doing drops you should be able to spot enough of his army to become suspicious.
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EPT
