EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 171
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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JSK
United States133 Posts
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klup
France612 Posts
I always have a lot of gas in bank in the late game and with the air attack upgrade already done it could be some kind of good transition to spend that unspent gas. what are your opinion on this kind of transition? side question : is PDD countering the archon attack ? | ||
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TameNaken
Australia361 Posts
On September 08 2013 20:48 WarpArtisT wrote: Hello guys, I just lost against proxy marine cheese in tvt and I'm trying to figure out how to beat this. In this game, I opened reaper expand while he built 2 proxy rax and rushed me with a couple of marines and scvs. When his attack hit I had a reaper out on the map and a reactor building on my rax. I had no idea how to react to this so I straight out lost the game. After having watched the replay, my solution would be: cancel cc, build a bunker close to my main and two rax and a depot behind my mineral line and micro as hard as possible. Any input on that or any more ideas on how to counter this cheese? Thanks! http://drop.sc/357604 In TvT you should be doing a depot scout, and get a good look at his base, generally: gas first is indicative of cloak banshee rax without gas means a FE gas without rax is usually proxy marauder no gas no rax is usally proxy rax but can also be a CC first (best to check his SCV count) when you scout either the proxy rax or proxy marauder get a bunker at the top of your ramp ASAP and feel free to pull SCVs until you get that bunker up. | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 11 2013 15:15 JSK wrote: Is everything in the OP up to date? I want to learn Terran. thanks...... Hi, not everything is up to date.. Ask about something specific if you wanna know. | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 11 2013 18:18 klup wrote: I was wondering if it is possible or realistic to transition BC/raven in Diamond league in late game TvP? I always have a lot of gas in bank in the late game and with the air attack upgrade already done it could be some kind of good transition to spend that unspent gas. what are your opinion on this kind of transition? side question : is PDD countering the archon attack ? PDD doesn't counter archon attack.. The problem with ravens and bcs in TvP is that hts can counter both by using feedback. Regardless mass BC with 3-3 upgrades is a really strong composition. The only example I can think of is wings of liberty MVP vs I think Seed in the finals where he went mass BC on metropolis where he could easily secure his half of the map with planetaries.. And then he still lost to half his opponents army because of vortex+storms. Still I think if you can get to mass 3-3 bcs in very late game it can theoretically work, haven't tried it personally. I guess if your opponent transitions into tempst then it becomes more viable. Vs colossus+tempest, raven bc viking would be quite good. | ||
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Rambolav
Norway42 Posts
Drops get shut down (Add to this that if I do decide to drop, this will cut in to any precious army that will inevatibly be rolled over by AOE) Protoss deathball amassed with so much different tech too fast to react to Harassing is impossible to stop: It requires too much of my army to stop, suddenly I have no offense (which leads to protoss capturing bases with cannons) I don't know what to do. I can't see any scenario in which I can win - all the macro in the world can't stop a turtling protoss for me. If I, by some miracle kill off a deathball, it doesn't matter - remaxing happens in seconds. Oh, and let's not forgot the endless possibilites for some random 1 base all in. All these things add to my worrying mind and it's eating at my mental health. Seriously. I need some really big outlines here. I have NO direction. Basically a protoss can sit in his base and wait, and move out when he feels like it. I can do nothing. This has happened for hundreds of matches and I NEED HELP. I feel like diamond is the worst leage for tvp - I'm not so bad I can just macro and win a match. I am not so good that I can micro like I need to. I open with a reaper fe. I end up with two rax and a starport. Poking protoss front does nothing. Soon he has tech to kill me. It's like I can try and be offensive, lose units, wait for deadly push. Or I can be defensive, wait for deadly push and lose. | ||
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rave[wcr]
United States1166 Posts
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klup
France612 Posts
I recently see protoss even go for fast nexus into double forge. the recent amount of greed of protoss seems really endless so good old allins can make them eat their hat. But remember doing allin make you not improve so much on mechanics but i understand loosing can make you nervous angry and deppressed which is worst imo to really improve. Another alternative : I have a really good winrate vs protoss going for 3 rax reaper pressure at the begining . I often outright win because of the insane greed of my opponent like 1/3 of the game. The other 1/3 is won because the protoss commited to much and stalker to defend and have no tech. The last 1/3 is me loosing hard to protoss late game  I use this old build of a friend of mine i changed it a little bit but the basics are the same http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409905 this build is better than 1/1/1 concerning mechanics because you will transition in mid game 2/3 of the time and it is also demanding on multitask micro/macro. I am low master around 65 ranking so im basically at the same level as you are and both of these things seems to work. If you are really really desperated and dont want to play PvT anymore just 11/11 every game ! | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
On September 11 2013 22:54 Rambolav wrote: How am I supposed to win tvp? I am at the end of my tether here. It really depresses me, I win diamond tvt and tvz but not tvp. I am like gold/plat in the matchup. Here is the problem: Drops get shut down (Add to this that if I do decide to drop, this will cut in to any precious army that will inevatibly be rolled over by AOE) Protoss deathball amassed with so much different tech too fast to react to Harassing is impossible to stop: It requires too much of my army to stop, suddenly I have no offense (which leads to protoss capturing bases with cannons) I don't know what to do. I can't see any scenario in which I can win - all the macro in the world can't stop a turtling protoss for me. If I, by some miracle kill off a deathball, it doesn't matter - remaxing happens in seconds. Oh, and let's not forgot the endless possibilites for some random 1 base all in. All these things add to my worrying mind and it's eating at my mental health. Seriously. I need some really big outlines here. I have NO direction. Basically a protoss can sit in his base and wait, and move out when he feels like it. I can do nothing. This has happened for hundreds of matches and I NEED HELP. I feel like diamond is the worst leage for tvp - I'm not so bad I can just macro and win a match. I am not so good that I can micro like I need to. I open with a reaper fe. I end up with two rax and a starport. Poking protoss front does nothing. Soon he has tech to kill me. It's like I can try and be offensive, lose units, wait for deadly push. Or I can be defensive, wait for deadly push and lose. Rambolav, i am also a diamond terran and let me just say i was in your shoes for quite a while. I saw that you mentioned that you open reaper Fe, which is quite the best opening for ladder games tbh - and thats already a good start - so basically there's no problem with 1 base allins from prottos with reaper fe because you do scout it, and can react however you want. I basically prefers the factory follow up since it gives you possibilities as mines and tanks vs blink allins. However, lets get to the point, i am a very very aggressive terran, and to be honest, as much as it sounds as a good thing (because all Koreans terran are aggressive) its actually quite a bad thing... The problem lies in the macro slipping. So some people will go and say " Yeah but i sniped his forge! so what if i missed production and few Scvs " - that's a totally bad perspective.. Why? because we're DIAMONDS! we don't need to get ahead by being smart (aka aggressive), when we can actually get ahead by macoring well! Now dont get me worng, i am not saying turtle up on 3cc and move out with 200 supply on 14 min... the key is to be aware constantly on your macro, you need to have some kind of 10-11 min poke, just to keep the prottos "honest" and to find out about his tech or maybe about his 2 base allin - but while you're "poking" remember to macro as first priority! don't miss Scvs, don't miss production, don't miss upgrades! Remember that a good terran who macro well will always have a bigger army then a prottos, since prottos is a race who spends ton on teching. and tbh, as much as it arguably, no prottos on diamond level have good macro, else he'll probably be master. (which is true for any race, but i know from real life friend experience that with prottos that saying is a bit more emphasized) | ||
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BBLN
16 Posts
I am a diamond terran and I am having problem with workers. I always build too many. When do you guys just stop making scvs? I mean I look at the graphs, and find my self having 90 workers against protoss :O So the most optimal way is 3*3*2 gas, 16*3 for minerals so 66 workers? Or should I have more like 75? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 12 2013 02:59 Faust852 wrote: Any tips against Mass phenixes-Colossi compo in TvP ? I feel like I can't do anything once he reachs a good 150 army supply. it sounds dumb but mass viking beat it.. you need 2 starport pumping vikings and you should be fine against it | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On September 12 2013 02:50 BBLN wrote: Hey, I am a diamond terran and I am having problem with workers. I always build too many. When do you guys just stop making scvs? I mean I look at the graphs, and find my self having 90 workers against protoss :O So the most optimal way is 3*3*2 gas, 16*3 for minerals so 66 workers? Or should I have more like 75? 16 on mins, 6 on gas per base, plus a handful extra for building things. 70 (or as close to 70) is ideal. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On September 12 2013 07:19 Sajaki wrote: 16 on mins, 6 on gas per base, plus a handful extra for building things. 70 (or as close to 70) is ideal. No, it should be closer to 60, around 65. Professional terran players will very rarely go over that 65 worker benchmark. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On September 12 2013 08:25 Whatson wrote: No, it should be closer to 60, around 65. Professional terran players will very rarely go over that 65 worker benchmark. It really depends on what style you're playing... if you're playing a style that relies on trading frequently (Marine Tank TvT, M4 TvZ), you'll go up to 66-70 so you have a high income / production rate to trade, if you're playing a style that relies on one big engagement / being supply efficient (Mech TvZ, Maurader Tank or Mech TvT, Anything TvP), you have a lower count, usually 60-66 but in some cases (i.e. Ghost Viking TvP with 10+ Orbitals) even lower and rely on mules for income. But yeah, 90 is waaaay too many, especially vs Protoss. Some players will go up to ~70 or so for their first max out, then pull ~20 or more for a big push with 2/2. Aside from this you generally want a lower worker count TvP because it relies more on big, game deciding engagements than lots of small skirmishes / trading frequently. edit: A lot of it really comes down to playstyle and preference imo. Anywhere from a little under 66 to 70 is probably fine. | ||
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
Replay Attached: http://drop.sc/359256 | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 12 2013 13:09 LegendaryDreams wrote: Any idea how to stop a proxy TvT Thor Rush when you're going 15 gas reactor barracks CC expand? Replay Attached: http://drop.sc/359256 watch for lucifron vs. forgg on akilion wastes in any wcs match. In this match forgg hold lucifron's proxy thor with his standard 15 gas reactor baracks build. | ||
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
I am platinum terran and I need your advices. I like to play mech in every matchup but I got serious problems with holding 1-2base allins by protoss and zerg. I need a solid opening vs zerg and vs protoss, which gives early expansion and is able to easy hold: 1) roach ling bane allin 2) one base blink allin 3) immortal bust I also need advice how to play vs protoss when playing mech and he makes archons immortals zealots? What should I make in this scenario? Or maybe I doing something wrong? Should I put more bunkers blind or what? I dont know what to do. Every platinum zerg and protoss is trying to allin me. I almost never loss late game scenario games. I dont want to play bio, becuase I simply cant micro and die to AoE damage by those races ;/ Help me what should I do? | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On September 12 2013 18:10 Vipermagi wrote: Hey guys I am platinum terran and I need your advices. I like to play mech in every matchup but I got serious problems with holding 1-2base allins by protoss and zerg. I need a solid opening vs zerg and vs protoss, which gives early expansion and is able to easy hold: 1) roach ling bane allin 2) one base blink allin 3) immortal bust I also need advice how to play vs protoss when playing mech and he makes archons immortals zealots? What should I make in this scenario? Or maybe I doing something wrong? Should I put more bunkers blind or what? I dont know what to do. Every platinum zerg and protoss is trying to allin me. I almost never loss late game scenario games. I dont want to play bio, becuase I simply cant micro and die to AoE damage by those races ;/ Help me what should I do? It's hard to tell anything in general so replays would help a lot but I will try to answer the best I can. 1) Siege tanks, siege tanks and siege tanks. I assume that you go for some variation of 1 rax FE so you should build 6 hellions or so. Make sure that you don't build widow mines after the hellions, go into tanks instead and you will be fine  2) I don't think you can go mech in the beginning, I suggest that you open 1 rax reaper reactor FE and build marines from the reactored rax all the time until you reach 12-16 marines. To be able to hold 1 base blink you need bunkers in place and 1-2 siege tanks. If you have 3 bunkers filled with marines and 2 siege tanks you will be super fine against that all in. 3) You will hold immortal busts with the same opening as number 2. Don't be afraid of building a lot of bunkers, like 5 or so. I don't mech in any match up so I don't have any specific build orders to give you but if you are gonna mech in TvP I think you need to open up with marines in the beginning and then transission into hellbat, tanks, thor, ghosts. Strelok is known for meching with a good success rate in TvP so take a look at some VODs by him. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On September 12 2013 05:12 saaaa wrote: it sounds dumb but mass viking beat it.. you need 2 starport pumping vikings and you should be fine against it Did that, 3 bases vs 3 bases. He kept harassing me with shit ton of phenix killing my economy even with turets in my minerals lines. With I go, he had like 15 phenix and 10 colossi, I pumped on 2 starports from the very beginning but It was like I had no ground army and I wasn't even able to kill all of the colossi | ||
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