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On July 05 2013 07:05 KingofGods wrote:lol even before clicking on the link I knew you were talking about vs. protoss based on description. First thing I would suggest you do is change up your build in the first 4 mins. Just look how much gas you had. Most people who do the reactor rax before units immediately go into double repear instead of the 1 reaper 1 marine like you did. After first 2 reapers immediately go into double marine production. Then as their gas piles up again they use that gas to build factory. If you are worried about not being able to hold off protoss aggression than stop mining gas all together and put up a couple more raxes along with your cc. Normally people advice against camping outside protoss base like that because if they have a pylon outside or warp prism they can send in units to ruin your day. In any case, if you are going to do that pre-spread instead of lumping them up in a big ball. You probably could have won that engagement at 16 mins (the one you ran away from) if your units were spread. You had a lot of workers but your main and natural were over saturated. Take a quick peak at the number on top of the command centre. 16/24 is optimal, but anything up to 24 is still OK but you had 28/22 on your main and 22/21 on your natural while your 3rd was sparse. That's 7 workers that literally aren't doing anything. You would be better off long distance mining with those 7. Around the point where you max out but can't kill the protoss (happens almost every game) is when you should be throwing up more command centres and production buildings to use up your minerals. If possible try to take engagements on his side of the map so that when you inevitably lose the fight you have time to reproduce and make use of that bank you accumulated. Honestly at this point you aren't playing bad. A lot of these things I am saying are kind of nit picking and doesn't make you win or lose games at your level. I suggest you work on one thing and one thing only, pre-spread your units. That is, form a big concave even before the fight happens. One thing that might help is to throw up sensory towers everywhere so you can always spread facing your opponent. Pro's don't build sensory towers everywhere because their game sense is so good they often know where their opponent is and they use scans constantly to find out exactly where and they don't want to waste too many resources on sensory towers.
I agree with what you said but I would say that the reason he lost is mostly because he let him his opponent build his deathball from 2base with a low worker count.
At 18 min you have a huge supply lead, not so much in army but almost double in workers. This means that you can actually constantly sacrifice units without being cost-effective and still win the game by outproducing your opponent. This however requires you to have at least 9 raxes but only have 5.
When you hit 200/200 you have over 3k minerals. Add 10 ish raxes here and a 4th CC and you can produce more units than most of your opponents in your league 
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Hey guys,diamond terran here.I'm having trouble with holding 1-base all-ins from other terrans.I normally open with a fast CC and hellions and I feel hopeless against 2 proxy rax,be it marines with scvs pulled,marauders or reapers.
Here is a replay of such a case:http://drop.sc/347156
I microed my marines as much as I could but the reapers quickly overwhelmed me.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks!
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On July 06 2013 21:13 OftiguS wrote:
Hey guys,diamond terran here.I'm having trouble with holding 1-base all-ins from other terrans.I normally open with a fast CC and hellions and I feel hopeless against 2 proxy rax,be it marines with scvs pulled,marauders or reapers.
Here is a replay of such a case:http://drop.sc/347156
I microed my marines as much as I could but the reapers quickly overwhelmed me.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks!
You can spot which kind of allin this is by the gas and late OC. If it is proxy rauders he will get his OC just slightly delayed(like at 16 or 17). Also since it's star station it's byfar the most likely allin. On star station I put the 2nd depo close to in this case the north side of my base, so I can see if reapers are jumping up there and get a few seconds extra to prepare(and if we fight there it might mess up the reaper AI).
What to do against reapers... First off, you should always be fighting with a few scvs. Note that he has like no scvs in comparison to you, so you can spend up to 5 tanking for your marines. Make sure though that they don't run off infront to much and get picked off one by one.
With 15 gas, you won't be getting out hellions. I'd skip the bunker, pull all the scvs out of the gas, make a 2nd rax(when you scout the proxy 2 rax reapers) and just focus on getting enough rines to fight him off. After that you can put guys in gas again, put down reactor and tech lab and expand. Alternative is to get tech lab on the 2nd rax, get concussive and rauders out and do some kind of 1 base push.
Most important is to not loose rines to reapers, always have scvs tanking them while you shoo the reapers out of your base.
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new to terran, why doesn't tvp mech work?
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the viability of mech is under debate, there are GM's that play mech, there aren't tournament winning players playing mech(only), so its viable up to GM, but not above that.
I personally don't think it has been fully explored, in the same way that it took a year for the infestor to become realised in WOL.
I believe it has more potential, and with time, i also believe that it could be possible. But i don't think their will ever be a 'mech' army only being used. I can see Ravens and Ghosts the only way to play mech fully.
The question above, it is the re-supply for protoss, that hurts Mech the most, it is the slowest of the compositions, in pretty much every aspect, as such, against the warp in mechanic, it becomes difficult to trade so efficiently at every fight after the initial one.
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I like to play a wol style 2 base hellion/banshee. Whats the best response to a muta transition? thors kill my mobility and turrets seem to always leave a hole or be overrun, should i be dumping my gas into into mines and lowering my banshee/tank count or is there a better way to stop the ball from amoving onto my ground only army?
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On July 07 2013 02:01 Emporium wrote:
the viability of mech is under debate, there are GM's that play mech, there aren't tournament winning players playing mech(only), so its viable up to GM, but not above that.
I personally don't think it has been fully explored, in the same way that it took a year for the infestor to become realised in WOL.
I believe it has more potential, and with time, i also believe that it could be possible. But i don't think their will ever be a 'mech' army only being used. I can see Ravens and Ghosts the only way to play mech fully.
The question above, it is the re-supply for protoss, that hurts Mech the most, it is the slowest of the compositions, in pretty much every aspect, as such, against the warp in mechanic, it becomes difficult to trade so efficiently at every fight after the initial one.
I'm a high masters that plays only mech (did the same in WoL). I do showmatches with GoOdy (top EU gm) all the time and hes beat some many worthy tournament top condenders. Here are three games I put together the other night, enjoy (he loses one of them). Its a TvP on NA.
PS: The first one is a hour long PvT mech on Akilon...so grab a beer.
http://drop.sc/347778
http://drop.sc/347780
http://drop.sc/347779
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On July 07 2013 01:47 askmc70 wrote:
new to terran, why doesn't tvp mech work?
You can write many pages about it, but imo summarized it is that in frontal assaults mech armies can be roughly as strong as toss armies, however they taker much longer to replace and especially really lack mobility. Personally I also believe that it is more that many toss haven't figured out how to deal with mech since they never play against, than that mech itself can be figured out alot more vs toss.
That said, for 99% of the people here mech TvP is a realistic option to use. As the poster above me mentioned, there are several GMs playing mech in TvP, and if they can do it, so can the majority here.
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On July 07 2013 04:59 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2013 01:47 askmc70 wrote:
new to terran, why doesn't tvp mech work? You can write many pages about it, but imo summarized it is that in frontal assaults mech armies can be roughly as strong as toss armies, however they taker much longer to replace and especially really lack mobility. Personally I also believe that it is more that many toss haven't figured out how to deal with mech since they never play against, than that mech itself can be figured out alot more vs toss. That said, for 99% of the people here mech TvP is a realistic option to use. As the poster above me mentioned, there are several GMs playing mech in TvP, and if they can do it, so can the majority here.
This is very true. Mech armies that manage to get Ghosts onto the field actually wipe the floor with anything that isn't Tempest-based.
I also think (based on watching people like Goody and Mario play mech TvP) that the tactics and optimal structures for mech haven't been figured out yet in TvP because bio is so overwhelming in the matchup. Why invest 100+ hours of your time as a pro gamer into figuring out a completely different way to play the matchup which requires different tactics, mobility patterns, and opening/midgame structures when you could instead just refine your Ghost control and keep smashing Protoss players who have inferior Templar control?
That said, if you're Masters or under, go for some mech sometimes. Moving 30 Widow Mines into a Protoss position backed by Hellbat/Tank is HILARIOUS.
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I agree with Jazzman88.
I actually play a mech style that does not involve any Ghost. I use weird compositions of mass mines, tanks, hellbats, banshee and vikings.
I'm terrible at it though (altough I am mid master) and I am still messing around with my own style (Goody's play is SO BORING..)
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Terran vs Protoss:
Playing Reaper into Hellbat Drops (Innovation Style)
I am struggling against very aggressive opening (10 Gate/Gas) or even usual timings where they poke with m-core, stalkers, zealot before my bunker is complete.
My first Idea was putting the CC always on the highground but against commited pokes with 2 zealots or what not this won't help at all.
So now i am thinking that T always has to 12 scout but that will put me behind economically and mess up the bo which is already very thight. So what would be the answer to have a safe TvP with hellbats as Innovations TvP Style does not seem safe/ able to react ?
Basically i just want to know if i need to react better so that you can hold it with some micro without changing the bo or if need to adjust in a different way.
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Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them?
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On July 07 2013 05:18 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2013 04:59 Sissors wrote:On July 07 2013 01:47 askmc70 wrote:
new to terran, why doesn't tvp mech work? You can write many pages about it, but imo summarized it is that in frontal assaults mech armies can be roughly as strong as toss armies, however they taker much longer to replace and especially really lack mobility. Personally I also believe that it is more that many toss haven't figured out how to deal with mech since they never play against, than that mech itself can be figured out alot more vs toss. That said, for 99% of the people here mech TvP is a realistic option to use. As the poster above me mentioned, there are several GMs playing mech in TvP, and if they can do it, so can the majority here. This is very true. Mech armies that manage to get Ghosts onto the field actually wipe the floor with anything that isn't Tempest-based. I also think (based on watching people like Goody and Mario play mech TvP) that the tactics and optimal structures for mech haven't been figured out yet in TvP because bio is so overwhelming in the matchup. Why invest 100+ hours of your time as a pro gamer into figuring out a completely different way to play the matchup which requires different tactics, mobility patterns, and opening/midgame structures when you could instead just refine your Ghost control and keep smashing Protoss players who have inferior Templar control?That said, if you're Masters or under, go for some mech sometimes. Moving 30 Widow Mines into a Protoss position backed by Hellbat/Tank is HILARIOUS.
Well, wouldn't this mean the protoss will also have to adapt a lot, since he's not used to play vs mech?
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On July 08 2013 04:13 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2013 05:18 Jazzman88 wrote:On July 07 2013 04:59 Sissors wrote:On July 07 2013 01:47 askmc70 wrote:
new to terran, why doesn't tvp mech work? You can write many pages about it, but imo summarized it is that in frontal assaults mech armies can be roughly as strong as toss armies, however they taker much longer to replace and especially really lack mobility. Personally I also believe that it is more that many toss haven't figured out how to deal with mech since they never play against, than that mech itself can be figured out alot more vs toss. That said, for 99% of the people here mech TvP is a realistic option to use. As the poster above me mentioned, there are several GMs playing mech in TvP, and if they can do it, so can the majority here. This is very true. Mech armies that manage to get Ghosts onto the field actually wipe the floor with anything that isn't Tempest-based. I also think (based on watching people like Goody and Mario play mech TvP) that the tactics and optimal structures for mech haven't been figured out yet in TvP because bio is so overwhelming in the matchup. Why invest 100+ hours of your time as a pro gamer into figuring out a completely different way to play the matchup which requires different tactics, mobility patterns, and opening/midgame structures when you could instead just refine your Ghost control and keep smashing Protoss players who have inferior Templar control?That said, if you're Masters or under, go for some mech sometimes. Moving 30 Widow Mines into a Protoss position backed by Hellbat/Tank is HILARIOUS. Well, wouldn't this mean the protoss will also have to adapt a lot, since he's not used to play vs mech?
Problem with mech is that alot of protostech can trade descently with mech. Blink, charge, Immortal, air. No hard microunits needed. Yes mech is powerfull, but protos has the answers to it early, mid and lategame. I think mech is viable, but much more dependant of timingwindows then bio. So, u must attack in certain timingwindows where u know u will have an edge. After the timingwindow disappears it will never return. U have a couple of windows so its ok, but the later the game goes on (endgame), the weaker mech gets. Yes, its viable but its trickier then bio.
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How do you trade armies as mech? I find I have no problems maxing out easily and then I start banking a lot of minerals and gas. I can see my opponent wants to make an air transition I can have starports in anticipation but my supply is already at maxed and I can't build anything.
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Sup guys. I'm a protoss player and I'm kind of new to terran, but I'm considering learning TvZ for now. I asked a zerg friend when you need a wall up as terran, and he told me I probably should start a full wall at about 5:40 if the zerg went hatch gas pool, because speed will finish at about 6:00. Is that always the case? What would be the exceptions?
I was looking into this 3CC reactor hellion build and noticed at this point terran only has a partial wall. I don't get it. Are you supposed to keep your scvs within bunker range in this case and wait for hellions to come out? Or is the optimal response something else? I shouldn't have much problem following the build, but scouting/adaptation is tricky because of my poor TvZ knowledge.
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I feel like a full wall off by 6 min is necessary but still only a temporary bandage. If the zerg decides to follow up speedlings with banelings that wall will still go down and all you will have is a couple hellions trying to defend.
What I have been doing which isn't very efficient is building a tank immediately when my factory finishes and then going up to 2 or 3 tanks and doing an old school tank / marine push.
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If I'm playing bio vs mech and they get a big viking count should I even bother with medivacs? Because it feels like they just die instantly anyway.
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What is the proper response to Blink Stalker all ins. Are 2-3 early defensive tanks viable, even if you don't know he's going blink stalker?
I honestly don't think I've ever held off a blink stalker all in, even though I always know it's coming.
Is something like reaper, expo, factory + 2 tanks viable as a standard opener?
here's a replay of me losing to blink stalker all in, going my standard. I literally have no idea how I'm supposed to respond and I know my response was garbage in this game.
http://drop.sc/348011
Also, on a side note, is the mass maradaur hellbat viking/medivac comps I've been seeing viable in the late game? They seem more on par with the Protoss in terms of required micro and aren't so unforgiving as ghost/marine
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Has anyone else tried out cheesy all in'ish builds in TvT? If you're getting tired of always the long macro games then you should try some more cheesy and aggressive builds. I have had success with both the 11/11 and sounds mine drop into banshee into marine tank push. The second one works really well and is also fun to play.
The BO was posted a few pages back.
On June 24 2013 13:08 teuthida wrote:
10 SD
12 Rax -> constant marine production
12 Gas
15 OC
16 Factory -> mines x2
Gas (2)
100% factory -> starport -> medivac
SD
Drop with 2 mines 4 marines
Reactor Rax
Techlab factory
techlab starport -> banshee & cloak
Make a tank after 1st banshee for defense
2nd banshee
2nd tank
push after / during banshee harass with all marines and 2 + tanks
Really fun and I suggest doing it if you're not in the mood for a long TvT!
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EPT
