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On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them?
In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important.
BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense.
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On July 08 2013 15:56 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them? In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important. BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense.
In a direct fight , marines>BCs by far. If you have no AoE, marines shred everything to pieces. You need raven HSM, tanks or mines, otherwise mass marine medivac or even MMM (marinemedivacmines) will own you hard.
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In rescent events this weekend on teamliquid i was disgusted by the fact that in the notable player section of the WCS qualifiers thread our terran hero's, our blueposters in helpmethread and the only master/GM players that try to help noobterrans out, were not listed as notable... wtf...^%&$#$
Ofcourse i became angry and so channelled this anger in "gimping" a supportflyer. Hopefully every terran that ever asked for help in this thread cheers for them in the next WCS challenger qualifierevents and gets them on the notable list, they deserve it!
![[image loading]](http://s10.postimg.org/j63x6oc1l/our_tl_wcs_heros.jpg)
Dudes u can do it! just 2rax everygame
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HAHAHA :D! Amazing. I hope TheDwf is good again, he was so on tilt that he left grandmasters yesterday T_T Thank you govie <3 much love!
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So as a silver terran I got matched against a master terran on EU ladder (I won 5 matches in a row so maybe the MMR decided it was time to set me straight). I basically lost to his initial worker annoying my scv building the rax, because by the time i had my first marine out he was building a bunker at my natural with two marines pushing up the ramp. How do you effectively deal with that ??(i kept making workers and tried throwing down a second rax, but it didn't cut it  . )
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On July 08 2013 19:52 d_runk wrote:So as a silver terran I got matched against a master terran on EU ladder (I won 5 matches in a row so maybe the MMR decided it was time to set me straight). I basically lost to his initial worker annoying my scv building the rax, because by the time i had my first marine out he was building a bunker at my natural with two marines pushing up the ramp. How do you effectively deal with that ??(i kept making workers and tried throwing down a second rax, but it didn't cut it . )
When u build the rax at 12 supply, bind 1 scv to key "1". By the time his scv reaches your base (around 14 supply) and harrases your building scv quickly command the binded scv to attack his scv and select another worker for building the 2nd depot or something else depending on ur buildorder. His scv will die before ur building scv dies.
This applies to any matchup btw. It works for me. Reaction time is key, therefore binding 1 scv is logical
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On July 08 2013 16:22 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 15:56 Sissors wrote:On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them? In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important. BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense. In a direct fight , marines>BCs by far. If you have no AoE, marines shred everything to pieces. You need raven HSM, tanks or mines, otherwise mass marine medivac or even MMM (marinemedivacmines) will own you hard.
That just isn't true. To be sure I just tried it in the unit tester, equal population of marines vs battlecruisers -> battlecruisers shred marines, it isn't even close. (Both fully upgraded). Also with medivacs added and the case where battlecruisers don't just yamato them away the battlecruisers still win easily population wise. Cost wise it is a different story obviously. Although then it also depends if you are minerals or gas starved.
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On July 08 2013 20:29 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 16:22 NarutO wrote:On July 08 2013 15:56 Sissors wrote:On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them? In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important. BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense. In a direct fight , marines>BCs by far. If you have no AoE, marines shred everything to pieces. You need raven HSM, tanks or mines, otherwise mass marine medivac or even MMM (marinemedivacmines) will own you hard. That just isn't true. To be sure I just tried it in the unit tester, equal population of marines vs battlecruisers -> battlecruisers shred marines, it isn't even close. (Both fully upgraded). Also with medivacs added and the case where battlecruisers don't just yamato them away the battlecruisers still win easily population wise. Cost wise it is a different story obviously. Although then it also depends if you are minerals or gas starved.
Productionwise u will win because marines outproduce gasheavy airterran, the remaxpossibility+mobility will win u the game.
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On July 08 2013 14:43 A Wild Sosd wrote:Has anyone else tried out cheesy all in'ish builds in TvT? If you're getting tired of always the long macro games then you should try some more cheesy and aggressive builds. I have had success with both the 11/11 and sounds mine drop into banshee into marine tank push. The second one works really well and is also fun to play. The BO was posted a few pages back. Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 13:08 teuthida wrote:
10 SD
12 Rax -> constant marine production
12 Gas
15 OC
16 Factory -> mines x2
Gas (2)
100% factory -> starport -> medivac
SD
Drop with 2 mines 4 marines
Reactor Rax
Techlab factory
techlab starport -> banshee & cloak
Make a tank after 1st banshee for defense
2nd banshee
2nd tank
push after / during banshee harass with all marines and 2 + tanks
Really fun and I suggest doing it if you're not in the mood for a long TvT!
Want to try this build out as currently still playing 2cloakshee > marine tank Viking 1 base allin. Looks fun
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On July 08 2013 20:29 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 16:22 NarutO wrote:On July 08 2013 15:56 Sissors wrote:On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them? In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important. BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense. In a direct fight , marines>BCs by far. If you have no AoE, marines shred everything to pieces. You need raven HSM, tanks or mines, otherwise mass marine medivac or even MMM (marinemedivacmines) will own you hard. That just isn't true. To be sure I just tried it in the unit tester, equal population of marines vs battlecruisers -> battlecruisers shred marines, it isn't even close. (Both fully upgraded). Also with medivacs added and the case where battlecruisers don't just yamato them away the battlecruisers still win easily population wise. Cost wise it is a different story obviously. Although then it also depends if you are minerals or gas starved.
So you are saying 12 supply of battlecruisers beat 12 supply of marines? Well obviously, but that is more than just an artificial case. Usually you will have more than tripple the marines compared to battlecruisers. With focus fire its not even close. I will take the marines any day over BCs without AoE, thats why in the past there was blueflame/bc style which was very good and hard to beat, but even then marines could still win with medivac+tank or thor support.
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On July 08 2013 09:20 KingofGods wrote:
I feel like a full wall off by 6 min is necessary but still only a temporary bandage. If the zerg decides to follow up speedlings with banelings that wall will still go down and all you will have is a couple hellions trying to defend.
What I have been doing which isn't very efficient is building a tank immediately when my factory finishes and then going up to 2 or 3 tanks and doing an old school tank / marine push.
The thing is, drastically changing the build probably wouldn't help me understand how it works. The macro is pretty tight too, so I won't be able to get a wall up unless I delay something else from what I noticed. I wouldn't mind scouting after building my first supply depot like Flash does (not sure if he still does it or if he always does it though), but I'd like to know my priorities and proper responses upon scouting.
From what I read so far, I should build my first CC as a part of my wall if I see a 10 pool, and CC first on the high ground should be able to do hold a 6 pool if done properly (not sure if going barracks first or something else would be a better choice here though). But when it comes to scouting gas timings and the proper responses, I'm pretty clueless.
EDIT:
Just noticed the same thing again. Innovation went CC first into reactor hellion (no fast third though) and only started the last supply depot that completes the wall at his natural at 6:50. He didn't scout earlier either. Is this just a metagame decision? I know his hellions came out at 6:15, but is it really safe enough to do this blindly anyway?
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On July 08 2013 19:14 govie wrote:In rescent events this weekend on teamliquid i was disgusted by the fact that in the notable player section of the WCS qualifiers thread our terran hero's, our blueposters in helpmethread and the only master/GM players that try to help noobterrans out, were not listed as notable... wtf...^%&$#$ Ofcourse i became angry and so channelled this anger in "gimping" a supportflyer. Hopefully every terran that ever asked for help in this thread cheers for them in the next WCS challenger qualifierevents and gets them on the notable list, they deserve it! Dudes u can do it! just 2rax everygame
Wait, when are/were they playing?
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On July 09 2013 01:20 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 19:14 govie wrote:In rescent events this weekend on teamliquid i was disgusted by the fact that in the notable player section of the WCS qualifiers thread our terran hero's, our blueposters in helpmethread and the only master/GM players that try to help noobterrans out, were not listed as notable... wtf...^%&$#$ Ofcourse i became angry and so channelled this anger in "gimping" a supportflyer. Hopefully every terran that ever asked for help in this thread cheers for them in the next WCS challenger qualifierevents and gets them on the notable list, they deserve it! Dudes u can do it! just 2rax everygame Wait, when are/were they playing?
Next weekend if i am correct, in wcs EU challenger qualifers!! (2 days) If not present to support make a pic specially for them.. feel that love baby yeah, time to give back some support<3
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On July 08 2013 20:40 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 20:29 Sissors wrote:On July 08 2013 16:22 NarutO wrote:On July 08 2013 15:56 Sissors wrote:On July 08 2013 03:49 PerryHooter wrote:
Hi. I'm new to playing terran, and platinum, and in a recent TvT I managed to contain him on three bases in a bio-tank vs bio-tank game, and I tried a skyterran transition.
I ended up having my 4-5 BC's getting killed by him stimming 20 to 30 marines under it, so my question is, is it possible to completely transition into air or do you still need tanks to keep the air army alive vs mass marines? PDD obviously won't help. Or is there a critical amount of BC's you need before you can engage a bio-tank player with them? In a direct fight BCs > marines, at least population wise. However what is important are upgrades. Since both BCs and marines have relatively low attack, but high (combined) attack speed, upgrades are very important. BCs themselves have way more to worry about vikings. What marines are good against vs battlecruisers is largely killing expansions with their mobility. So you will want PFs there, possibly with 2 tanks or so as added defense. In a direct fight , marines>BCs by far. If you have no AoE, marines shred everything to pieces. You need raven HSM, tanks or mines, otherwise mass marine medivac or even MMM (marinemedivacmines) will own you hard. That just isn't true. To be sure I just tried it in the unit tester, equal population of marines vs battlecruisers -> battlecruisers shred marines, it isn't even close. (Both fully upgraded). Also with medivacs added and the case where battlecruisers don't just yamato them away the battlecruisers still win easily population wise. Cost wise it is a different story obviously. Although then it also depends if you are minerals or gas starved. So you are saying 12 supply of battlecruisers beat 12 supply of marines? Well obviously, but that is more than just an artificial case.
Maybe at your much higher level, but I have seen it happen often enough, mass battlecruisers in long games (and nop, I am not bronze  ). However in my first post I specifically mentioned population wise, you responded with that it is not true, I check it with unit tester, and now you reply that that is obviously the case. That is imo a bit weird.
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On July 09 2013 02:22 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:20 Smackzilla wrote:On July 08 2013 19:14 govie wrote:In rescent events this weekend on teamliquid i was disgusted by the fact that in the notable player section of the WCS qualifiers thread our terran hero's, our blueposters in helpmethread and the only master/GM players that try to help noobterrans out, were not listed as notable... wtf...^%&$#$ Ofcourse i became angry and so channelled this anger in "gimping" a supportflyer. Hopefully every terran that ever asked for help in this thread cheers for them in the next WCS challenger qualifierevents and gets them on the notable list, they deserve it! Dudes u can do it! just 2rax everygame Wait, when are/were they playing? Next weekend if i am correct, in wcs EU challenger qualifers!! (2 days) If not present to support make a pic specially for them.. feel that love baby yeah, time to give back some support<3
I'll definitely catch that, even if I have to wake up early.
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I have a question that stems from a day9 daily. He kept talking about three command center builds? What exactly is that?
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Late game tvt baffles me. Whenever I go BCs I always lose. But whenever my opponent goes BCs I too always lose. lol it's a lose-lose situation for me.
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On July 09 2013 09:03 KingofGods wrote:
Late game tvt baffles me. Whenever I go BCs I always lose. But whenever my opponent goes BCs I too always lose. lol it's a lose-lose situation for me.
There are very specific situations where you want to start a Battlecruiser transition:
1. Mech versus mech, stalemated situation with either no bases under contains or limited contains. This is, for example, when both sides are massing Tank/Hellbat with the lines basically shuffling back and forth and sufficient Hellbat drop defense to make harassment difficult. The first person to begin the air transition (typically with a good Viking count and at least 3-4 Ravens for support beyond the heavy damage of the Battlecruisers) typically takes an advantage here.
2. Mech versus bio, the map is again stalemated, and you have scouted a massing of Starports by the opponent, indicating they want to catch you with the air switch. You need to either kill them now or make the transition yourself; the plus to matching their transition is that you likely have your own Ship/Vehicle armour upgrades very much ahead of his.
3. Mech versus mech, you cause damage to your opponent to put them behind, but they succeed in getting a heavy Tank count and lots of Sensor/Missile defense which is cost-inefficient to break. Here you can simply fast-track the sky transition and there's very little he can do about it.
Okay, so what happens if he starts a mech versus mech or bio versus mech BC transition (where you are playing mech) and he is ahead of me in that regard?
Well, you need to first push back against his air transition while keeping a heavy ground force to take advantage of when you do defeat an air army so you can either re-max on heavy mech or do a ninja switch to air of your own. The best tool for this is to strike some of your Tank/Hellbat force (go try to snipe some bases and dump supply for this that way), and replace with mass Widow Mine/Thor. Put your Thors in HIP mode to target down the Battlecruisers from distance, and get Drilling Claws for the Mines. Mass widow Mine with the claws upgrade wrecks Battlecruiser/Viking if you can get it set. For a demonstration of this, go search on YouTube for Flash/Fantasy on Neo Planet S from Proleague. Flash does a 3-base Battlecruiser rush and almost cripples Fantasy, but Fantasy just builds an army of Mines and melts the air force, letting his Tank/Thor force walk in and easily win.
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Is it a good idea to not make vickings when the protoss is getting phoenixes, but goes for the templar tech ? Investing in more ghosts and more medivacs instead ?
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since the free coaching thread is dead and nobody even responds, can someone that is at least masters at terran help coach me? really need help esp vs zerg (plat/dia terran here)
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EPT
