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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On June 22 2013 15:55 jae7cho wrote:Hello does anyone know how to stop this when I go CC first? I feel really lost in TvZ going 15 CC  I think I kind of screwed up with my fact time because I had no hellions before hellbats to scout and see whats up but other than that is there something else I can do? http://drop.sc/345362
I think you are playing too greedy. 1 rax into 3 CC if way too greedy. You are just lucky that he went blindly 3 hatch before pool or you would have died at 8:00.
If you wanna get 3 CCs early I suggest that you build your 3rd CC after factory because thats still really early.
10 Depot
14 CC
15 Barracks (only build 2 marines)
16 Refinery
18 OC x2
20 Bunker
21 Factory
22 Reactor on barracks
23 Depot
26 CC(3)
This makes you stay safe because of earlier tech and you MUST build something from your factory before hellbats! Hellions at least, or a few WM or even a siege tank if you scout an all in.
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On June 21 2013 05:29 SneakMind wrote:Can you guys help me out here? I feel like I played well but I got freaking steamrolled.......... http://drop.sc/345167Things I did: -dropped destroying his cyber core and his colossus production... and saved the drop -dropped with widow mines, got a full hit, and saved it... -empd every single one of his templars in the last engagement -sniped his third Stuff I did wrong -stimmed very... very... late in the last engagement -screwed up that timing attack at like 13 minutes.. I don't really know how to deal with forcefields?? was it wrong to even attack then? -Got supply blocked a couple times But the thing is even with what I did wrong I really feel like I did enough to win!?!?
I see that you are afraid of proxies but when you see that he got an expo you don't really need to worry about them so you can send the reaper to harass probes instead.
I don't like your CC placement, try to build it close to the natural because you are losing A LOT of time when you have to fly over the entire base instead of just lifting it from high ground to low ground.
I like that you are harassing with marine, medivac WM but this harassment should happen directly when you have 1 medivac, 2 WM and 4 marines (in your case 7:40) but you choose to wait until 9:15 before you harass.
Your first big mistake is the engagement at 13 min. You should treat colossus lasers the same way you treat storm from HTs, NEVER stand in those lasers. When you see that he forcefields your army just back away and try to maybe drop him instead and don't engage again until you have the right amount of vikings (3 vikings per colossi).
Your multipronged attack at 16 min was very good, you denied a lot of tech and sniped his third.
Oh man! Losing your third like that is really sloppy, just lift it and send your SCVs to your natural.
You lost the game at 22 min because of bad army composition, you only had 4 viking against 3 colossi where you should have had at least 9. Great EMPs though, sorry it wasn't enough :/
Try to overbuild vikings 1 game to see the difference when you deny all the colossi really fast. That will make you realize how important those colossi are for Protoss.
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I got big problems dealing with swarm hosts. Is there any easy way to deal with them while expanding. (micro and multitask is not a problem for me)
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When going 2 reaper fe into reac-fact + 3rd cc, how do you respond to a zerg looking to bane bust you off 2 bases, with a minimal number of drones (17).
I have 2 games for reference. The first game, he streamed lings into my nat as I was trying to wall off. The second, he pulled back once I got the tank out, but I felt my defense could have been much cleaner.
game 1 http://drop.sc/345404
game 2 http://drop.sc/345406
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On June 22 2013 23:37 typhoonn wrote:
I got big problems dealing with swarm hosts. Is there any easy way to deal with them while expanding. (micro and multitask is not a problem for me)
i have exactly the same problem
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How to play vs Infestor/Ling/Bane an old school WoL comp. Is it better to switch to Marine Tank. Or stay on 4M? I find that if i stay on 4M i cant decrease Infestor count. and they have like 30 fungals even if i have Mvp micro i cant split. I found ravens to be somewhat of an answer but is there a better one?
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How do you guys respond when seeing a zerg go roach-hydra? I feel like mixing in tanks and going more marauder heavy is a good response, but do you guys handle it differently? For example, not making tanks and getting out more bio instead, with lots of medivacs?
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On June 23 2013 05:01 Jay Arell wrote:
How do you guys respond when seeing a zerg go roach-hydra? I feel like mixing in tanks and going more marauder heavy is a good response, but do you guys handle it differently? For example, not making tanks and getting out more bio instead, with lots of medivacs?
From the OP
+ Show Spoiler +On March 24 2013 05:25 TheDwf wrote:
Marines/Marauders/Tanks/Medivacs. WoL game, but watch Flash vs EffOrt, Ohana, SPL. For a HotS game, see MMA vs Vibe, Star Station, ATC (reactive 3 fact Tanks).
4M is not impossible to play against Roaches/Hydralisks, and you will have no troubles if you have the advantage and/or the initiative via drop play, but you may be vulnerable in some windows because it takes time to get enough Marauders and Medivacs to fight on equal terms with Zerg. A compromise can be to produce Tanks on your second Lab Factory as displayed by Last at the MLG.
TheDwf wrote:
Due to the production asymmetry between Terran and Zerg, assuming an even game it takes too much time to build enough Marauders/Medivacs to start fighting on equal terms against Roaches/Hydralisks, which leads to the existence of windows of vulnerability in which Zerg has simply too many Roaches/Hydralisks for your army to handle, even if you're actively working towards a higher Marauder/Medivac count. Two games to examine this vulnerability are Ryung vs YuGiOh, Newkirk Precinct, ATC [starts at 13'05 and goes on the next VOD] and Flash vs Soulkey, Star Station, Code S. In both games Zerg overextended and ended up losing their advantage (and subsequently the game), but they did have one after they forced their Terran opponent to sacrifice all their SCVs at the third to hold the Roaches/Hydralisks timing. Naturally, short distances (close spawns, certain maps) only make things worse.
Additionally, Mines are not as helpful against roaches/hydras as they are against lings/banes/mutas, since they have to move towards the opponent (unless you're defending at home of course) and burrow in front of a ranged wall of beefy units (since Roaches are supposed to be at the front) as opposed to the fragile, clumpy melee swarm of lings/banes/mutas rushing towards them when engaging the Terran army.
Hence the Tank; while not being tremendously efficient at first when in low numbers, they help secure your position when carefully positioned (particularly on high grounds overhanging the third if the map layout allows it), and allow you to build an army which will stomp Roaches/Hydralisks when fighting at the appropriate timings (see below).
Switching from Mine production to Tanks is not harder than swapping your fact reactor with a lab rax, and getting Vehicle Weapons instead of mech armor. I recommend getting 3-4 lab rax to build a healthy Marauder count, while producing Tanks out of 2 or even 3 fact lab later.
Since you build Tanks, the logical next step for Zerg is to get Vipers, which is why you want to hit a timing before them (which, negatively, also means that as long as your opponent has no Hive, you have no need to rush into a premature attack and you can passively keep building your Tank count until your army is unbeatable by his first army). This timing is critical as you want to hit neither "too early" (when lacking the critical Tank count + ranged mass to prevail) nor "too late," when Zerg has several Vipers with enough energy ready to nullify your Tanks and disrupt the position of your bio troops. An example of the immediate disaster which can occur if you hit "too early" can be found in ThorZaIN vs Stephano, Neo Planet S, Dreamhack.
Basically, waiting ~170-180 supply and 6+ Tanks is better to engage. If you can wait longer (against late Hives) and afford to max before with 8-10 Tanks, don't hesitate.
As bio/Tanks vs roaches/hydras/(infests) is a ranged war, make sure you get a wide concave before engaging.
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On June 23 2013 05:01 Jay Arell wrote:
How do you guys respond when seeing a zerg go roach-hydra? I feel like mixing in tanks and going more marauder heavy is a good response, but do you guys handle it differently? For example, not making tanks and getting out more bio instead, with lots of medivacs?
The post TheDwf made about this is a pure beauty and sums everything very well. You might also want to drop the zerg alot more since there will be no mutalisks and roach/hydra is way slower than zerglings.
Edit : Just wanna add, if you play against a zerg and you know he will be going roach/hydra or heavy roach play (for example in a BO3), I recommend you to do the MVP 2 Base all-in he did against Stephano. It shuts down roach play quite hard and is less micro intensive than doing it against zergling/baneling.
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If I kill a P's first stalker when he pokes should I run 5 or 6 marines into his nat looking for probes or sentrys?
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On June 22 2013 23:37 typhoonn wrote:
I got big problems dealing with swarm hosts. Is there any easy way to deal with them while expanding. (micro and multitask is not a problem for me)
A good way to deal with swarm hosts is to avoid dealing with them at all. Siege tanks and widow mines help to defend against them along with planetarys as expansions, but unless you catch them un-sieged or separated from the main army they can be very cost inefficient to attack into. That being said they are very immobile units and unless your opponent has nyduses all over the map they will be vulnerable to 2+ medivac drops, whether the drops are killing expansions, tech, drones or just diverting your opponents attention away from macroing or being aggresive while you are, they are doing their job. Just remember to not completely just sack the drops unless you are notably ahead, and even then its best to pick-up and queue drop somewhere else.
On June 23 2013 00:13 Corsica wrote:
How to play vs Infestor/Ling/Bane an old school WoL comp. Is it better to switch to Marine Tank. Or stay on 4M? I find that if i stay on 4M i cant decrease Infestor count. and they have like 30 fungals even if i have Mvp micro i cant split. I found ravens to be somewhat of an answer but is there a better one?
Drop a lot and you can sometimes even hit a timing before they have infestors out and do TONS of damage if they forget banelings or you catch their units out of position.
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How do you actually follow up to a defense against 7RR? I recently played a match and lost when the zerg did that against my reaper FE. I scouted it easily because it has no way to hide the warren, but I might have lost a few too many scv's defending. In general though, I feel like the terran will be behind most of the time because the zerg can be super greedy afterwards.
Ex: Zerg does 7RR, terran must defend, zerg double expands and by the time terran can attack, zerg has too much economy.
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On June 23 2013 17:34 Kid-Fox wrote:
How do you actually follow up to a defense against 7RR? I recently played a match and lost when the zerg did that against my reaper FE. I scouted it easily because it has no way to hide the warren, but I might have lost a few too many scv's defending. In general though, I feel like the terran will be behind most of the time because the zerg can be super greedy afterwards.
Ex: Zerg does 7RR, terran must defend, zerg double expands and by the time terran can attack, zerg has too much economy.
Did you make marauders? A few bunkers with marauders in them should shut it down hard. Cancel whatever the rax is making as soon as you see it and by the time it hits you should have 2 or 3 marauders which is more than enough provided you see when the push is coming with the reaper which will allow you time to have the SCVs ready to repair. Also make the bunker(s) in range of the ramp so that he cannot just walk roaches up your ramp. Even if you do lose some SCV's it shouldnt matter as you should still be on about equal footing with the Z in workers. Just follow it up with either a fast 3rd CC or some hellbats and push across the map with them.
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On June 23 2013 12:34 A Wild Sosd wrote:
If I kill a P's first stalker when he pokes should I run 5 or 6 marines into his nat looking for probes or sentrys?
I would say no, it's often not worth sacrificing marines in the beginning of a game. Just be happy that you gained a small advantage and save your marines till the 10 min push instead.
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On June 20 2013 08:43 Marathi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 08:24 Jazzman88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 20 2013 08:10 Marathi wrote:
When going 15gas reactor expand build in the OP I am having a lot of trouble vs Protoss trying to figure out whether they're going for MsC poke or proxy oracles.
In the most recent game I scout double gas with 9depot SCV (one assimilator complete the other nearly complete) I didn't count how much gas had been mined or the workers on the gas, which is something I need to work on. But I noticed he only had 1 pylon in his base so I assumed he would be going oracles.
I rally my marines to my mineral line ready to defend vs oracles when my SCV which is looking for the proxy stargate gets caught by a MsC and a stalker and gets killed, I immediately place bunker and move my marines back to the front but it's too late and my depots fall, etc, etc.
Basically a lot of the time when I do this build vs double gas it feels very coinflippy where my marines are placed to defend vs early aggression. If they're not in the mineral line I lose too many SCVs to oracles. If they're in the mineral line when an MsC poke comes it's very hard to get a bunker up and defend.
What else can I look out for to try and figure out which is which. Also is it worth going ebay before CC if I spot double gas and get a turret down at min line and ramp? If you go 15 gas and make that scouting read, you can put your Bunker at the ramp, put exactly 1 Marine in there, and rally all the rest to the mineral line. Try to find the proxy so you know the general direction the Oracles will come from. If he uses the MsC to pressure your front and is trying to use that as bait, simply put a couple of SCVs on repair and rally any Marines after 6 at the mineral line to your Bunker. Eventually you can push it back. Expand on the high ground, get either Factory tech for Widow Mines, or the E-bay for early upgrades and Turrets. Slowly take your natural and transition normally. Ok so would you delay CC for fact/ebay? Cheers man
EDIT: Nevermind decided to change my build to Bomber's reaper FE, see if I have any better success with that.
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Anyone writed down the build Sound used on redbull training ground 2 mins ago against Demuslim on whirlwhind ? That was so sick, constant pressure.
It was :
- 1 base widow mines drop into cloak banshees into a quick marine tank push when he saw he did a lot of damages. He was doing it on 1 base so the widow mine drop was really fast (like at 6:00).
On the ladder alot of terrans aren't scv scouting and expect to know everything with the 6:20 scan, with the build he used, the drops hit before the scan happen. Using this could really break the meta of hellbats drops since you're pretty fucked if you're don't have an ebay + enough marines and most hellbat drop builds aren't including any ebay (you add it when you scout your opponent) nor an high number of marines (the maximum is 4 to 6 I think)
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How should I respond to a double gas steal vs a Zerg?
Searching gave me this :
2) As the opponent has no gas he's forced to build only mineral things, so it forces them into a bioball build, which is much easier to handle for zerg than terran mech.
But then it forces mass marines, right?
I guess spling/bling with double gas steal would own Terran
Ive won all my TvZs where i get banebusted, just put marauders after the depos and your essentially walled again
And finally this :
And as Day9 says
"If he's doing something weird, just go fucking kill him"
So should I take the natural's gas and tech to marauders and prepare to defend?
My replay if anyone is curious :
http://ggtracker.com/matches/3557134
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On June 24 2013 12:02 surreal1600 wrote:
How should I respond to a double gas steal vs a Zerg?
Build on your geyser. Or hold position a scv on it.
Once he takes the first one, the second drone should probably clue you in.
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On June 24 2013 08:46 wag_ wrote:
Anyone writed down the build Sound used on redbull training ground 2 mins ago against Demuslim on whirlwhind ? That was so sick, constant pressure.
It was :
- 1 base widow mines drop into cloak banshees into a quick marine tank push when he saw he did a lot of damages. He was doing it on 1 base so the widow mine drop was really fast (like at 6:00).
On the ladder alot of terrans aren't scv scouting and expect to know everything with the 6:20 scan, with the build he used, the drops hit before the scan happen. Using this could really break the meta of hellbats drops since you're pretty fucked if you're don't have an ebay + enough marines and most hellbat drop builds aren't including any ebay (you add it when you scout your opponent) nor an high number of marines (the maximum is 4 to 6 I think)
I just looked this up, then tried it on ladder twice and won both games with it. Here is the build as I wrote it down:
10 SD
12 Rax -> constant marine production
12 Gas
15 OC
16 Factory -> mines x2
Gas (2)
100% factory -> starport -> medivac
SD
Drop with 2 mines 4 marines
Reactor Rax
Techlab factory
techlab starport -> banshee & cloak
Make a tank after 1st banshee for defense
2nd banshee
2nd tank
push after / during banshee harass with all marines and 2 + tanks
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So the OP didn't address this... What am I supposed to do after going Reaper Expand into Hellions and 3CC against Zergs? Is there a specific build guideline I should follow? How am I supposed to defend against Roach Bane all in with this build? Bunkers simply don't build fast enough when I scout this, and even if I do manage to get them up in time "They see me rolling..."
Against Protoss, what's a good mid game composition against Storm? Protoss can literally storm their way to a win against me, so I have to hit before storms. The fact that if I try to macro up for a minute, they can just mass High Templars for Storms doesn't help my situation either. I understand TvP is a patience game and hope you get a favorable engagement, but Terran is very weak in late game TvP unless you have very good micro.
Against Terrans, is there a way to counter a meching Terran? Hellbats can buffer so much damage it's not remotely funny. I've caught a meching Terran off guard a couple times through drops, but all they ahd to do was have Hellbats soak up the damage while seiging up their tanks. I know that bio cannot trade mech head on and all that stuff, and you should go for an air transition early on, while expanding like crazy.
Right now, I'm in the biggest slump of my life with a score of 13 wins and 27 losses in Diamond. If I lose anymore, I'm honestly going to go crazy and might quit this game. The BMers don't help either when I ask for a pause and they simply refuse the game, or you have faggots that think it's cool to say GTFO while map hacking their way to a win.
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EPT
