EPTIt seems like viking/thor/hellbat/tank 2 base pushes work quite well at the semi pro level and TBH seems like it may have some potential in the future (with fast ghosts to deal with immortals archons) because thor/hellbat is SO tanky.
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 103
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
It seems like viking/thor/hellbat/tank 2 base pushes work quite well at the semi pro level and TBH seems like it may have some potential in the future (with fast ghosts to deal with immortals archons) because thor/hellbat is SO tanky. | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On June 19 2013 09:17 S7EFEN wrote: Is mech inferior at a diamond/low masters level TvP? I REALLY cannot play 200/200 army battles with lots of bio/marines vs toss as my computer suchs a bit. I play bio and I end up pulling SCVs as they storm switch vs standard play (which works well but I don't like having to win on a timer) and I have some success late game if I can outmacro really hard (ie, 20 ghosts, 15-20 vikings) but without a ton, ton of ghosts and vkings one slight lag and I lose all my marines. It seems like viking/thor/hellbat/tank 2 base pushes work quite well at the semi pro level and TBH seems like it may have some potential in the future (with fast ghosts to deal with immortals archons) because thor/hellbat is SO tanky. Mech is weaker than bio but I think it's still viable. Alot of terrans play mech vs toss and seems to get decent results on the ladder. If you have no other choice because your computer lags alot when playing bio, go for mech but if you can play bio efficiently, stick to bio. On June 19 2013 04:29 bvb wrote: How do you beat the Protoss deathball? No matter how well I play, I still lose. I can be up 2 bases and still lose it's ridiculous. They can switch between mass collossi and mass templar relatively easily, and making that switch for Terran is really time-consuming. In a protoss army with 3-4 collossi, ~6 HTs, a few archons, few stalkers, and mass speedlots, what is the ideal composition? How do you even micro? The range of EMPs are so short and one micro misstep and I'll lose my entire army. So frustrating. Should I go marines at all? What is the top priority in such a fight. I've tried varying my opener and I've found a 15 CC -> 3 rax to give me the best results. I've tried a few of the korean builds involving mines but I find you have to be surgical with them in order to maximize their usage. What do you guys think of the 15 CC build? I'm a ~1300 pt masters if it matters. Thanks for any help! TvP late game is the worst match-up ever made. Here's my gameplan : -> Do you build, whatever it is -> Do the 10 minutes 2 medivac poke, check if he's going collossi or templars If he's going collossi -> get 6 vikings, push with all your main scvs. If you went for fast upgrades, push when 2-2 comes out, if you didn't, push when you get 6 vikings If he's going templar -> Get third base, ghost academy, hellbats (because templars first means alot of zealots) and push before he can tech to collossi. If he doesn't spread his templars (well at 1300pts master, he is the worst protoss ever if he don't spread them) carpet emp his army and a+move your way to victory. He he does spread them, micro your ghost effectively to win the game, you can also pull scvs with this push but it will much less effective due to archons and storms. That's the way I used to play when I was in mid-masters last season, the only games I lost were when getting 2 base all-inned or when I pushed too late. | ||
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TAAF
Switzerland226 Posts
On June 17 2013 09:47 vovinam wrote: how do you usually react to nexus first on a 4 players map id you scout them last? ( if open with gas) i didn't see/ couldn't find from the OP What do you do with the gas? Are you getting a reaper (12/12)? Gas first mines/hellions? Because I don't really understand your problem against a nexus first. If you get a reaper the toss might as well leave the game right away, nothing toss has at that point can take the reaper out. 1 Base reactor hellions or 1 base mine drops of gas first also most likely kills nexus first if executed correctly. But you should maybe write down some more information about your build next time. | ||
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Ducksuck
Germany1 Post
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DragonKing132
7 Posts
My question hasn't been answered yet so I'll ask it again. As a terren, what should i do against 2 bas roach openings. | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On June 20 2013 02:20 Ducksuck wrote: How do I deal with unscouted fast dts? In my last game, I didnt have enough scans for them If you're lucky, raise the depots from your main and repair them with scv, get a tower behind thoses depots. That should do the trick. If he somehow get into your main, well, I think you lost. | ||
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TAAF
Switzerland226 Posts
On June 20 2013 02:30 DragonKing132 wrote: Hello again, My question hasn't been answered yet so I'll ask it again. As a terren, what should i do against 2 bas roach openings. Always get a wall (supply depots/1 bunker) against zerg IMO. Once you see the roach attack get 2-3 more bunkers up behind your wall and start marauder production. Don't be afraid of pulling SCVs to tank damage and repair the bunker. Most 2 base attacks from zerg are pretty allin, so if you hold without taking too much damage you will most likely be ahead. Edit: I'm guessing you are going for a normal reaper/expand with hellion follow up or CC first into hellions. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 20 2013 02:35 wag_ wrote: If you're lucky, raise the depots from your main and repair them with scv, get a tower behind thoses depots. That should do the trick. If he somehow get into your main, well, I think you lost. 1. U have to delay the damage dealt by the dt-assault with scans and your army; 2. U need detection or a wall with repairing scv's until u have detection after the dt's are not in ur main. Building an e.bay + turret costs approx 60 seconds and building a raven cost 60 seconds too providing u have a starport. The problem with the e.bay+turret is that most protos wont let u finish an e.bay in construction and some turrets after if the dt's are allready in your main. If u allready have an ebay or a starpot or building one when the attack hits, ur still in it. So, or turrets or "a raven by cancelling gasheavy research and/or production if needed" is most logical (safe) options after the wall is up. I believe even that a raven is a better option then placing turrets when ur wall is down or against the "tails 2 base dt/warsprism build" if u didnt scout it. U cant build like 7 turrets, which also means automatic loss and with the tails build, stim wont finish anyway, they will kill the techlab. So if the wall holds try turrets, if the wall is down after the initial attack or its a 2base dt build and u didnt kill the warprism, cancel gasheavy research if needed until 200 gas and go for a raven, dont worry it will finish. They cant kill production, army and a starport within 60 seconds. Yes, u will be delayed with either option, but ur still alive, have some scv's, 1 or 2 orbitals, mules and are teching up. Protos will most likely be on 1 base or the tailsbuild (2 base), so yes, u will be passive (with maybe cancelled research if no turrets) but alive and could still win even (with some fair engagements). | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
In the most recent game I scout double gas with 9depot SCV (one assimilator complete the other nearly complete) I didn't count how much gas had been mined or the workers on the gas, which is something I need to work on. But I noticed he only had 1 pylon in his base so I assumed he would be going oracles. I rally my marines to my mineral line ready to defend vs oracles when my SCV which is looking for the proxy stargate gets caught by a MsC and a stalker and gets killed, I immediately place bunker and move my marines back to the front but it's too late and my depots fall, etc, etc. Basically a lot of the time when I do this build vs double gas it feels very coinflippy where my marines are placed to defend vs early aggression. If they're not in the mineral line I lose too many SCVs to oracles. If they're in the mineral line when an MsC poke comes it's very hard to get a bunker up and defend. What else can I look out for to try and figure out which is which. Also is it worth going ebay before CC if I spot double gas and get a turret down at min line and ramp? | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On June 20 2013 08:10 Marathi wrote: When going 15gas reactor expand build in the OP I am having a lot of trouble vs Protoss trying to figure out whether they're going for MsC poke or proxy oracles. In the most recent game I scout double gas with 9depot SCV (one assimilator complete the other nearly complete) I didn't count how much gas had been mined or the workers on the gas, which is something I need to work on. But I noticed he only had 1 pylon in his base so I assumed he would be going oracles. I rally my marines to my mineral line ready to defend vs oracles when my SCV which is looking for the proxy stargate gets caught by a MsC and a stalker and gets killed, I immediately place bunker and move my marines back to the front but it's too late and my depots fall, etc, etc. Basically a lot of the time when I do this build vs double gas it feels very coinflippy where my marines are placed to defend vs early aggression. If they're not in the mineral line I lose too many SCVs to oracles. If they're in the mineral line when an MsC poke comes it's very hard to get a bunker up and defend. What else can I look out for to try and figure out which is which. Also is it worth going ebay before CC if I spot double gas and get a turret down at min line and ramp? If you go 15 gas and make that scouting read, you can put your Bunker at the ramp, put exactly 1 Marine in there, and rally all the rest to the mineral line. Try to find the proxy so you know the general direction the Oracles will come from. If he uses the MsC to pressure your front and is trying to use that as bait, simply put a couple of SCVs on repair and rally any Marines after 6 at the mineral line to your Bunker. Eventually you can push it back. Expand on the high ground, get either Factory tech for Widow Mines, or the E-bay for early upgrades and Turrets. Slowly take your natural and transition normally. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On June 20 2013 08:24 Jazzman88 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 20 2013 08:10 Marathi wrote: When going 15gas reactor expand build in the OP I am having a lot of trouble vs Protoss trying to figure out whether they're going for MsC poke or proxy oracles. In the most recent game I scout double gas with 9depot SCV (one assimilator complete the other nearly complete) I didn't count how much gas had been mined or the workers on the gas, which is something I need to work on. But I noticed he only had 1 pylon in his base so I assumed he would be going oracles. I rally my marines to my mineral line ready to defend vs oracles when my SCV which is looking for the proxy stargate gets caught by a MsC and a stalker and gets killed, I immediately place bunker and move my marines back to the front but it's too late and my depots fall, etc, etc. Basically a lot of the time when I do this build vs double gas it feels very coinflippy where my marines are placed to defend vs early aggression. If they're not in the mineral line I lose too many SCVs to oracles. If they're in the mineral line when an MsC poke comes it's very hard to get a bunker up and defend. What else can I look out for to try and figure out which is which. Also is it worth going ebay before CC if I spot double gas and get a turret down at min line and ramp? If you go 15 gas and make that scouting read, you can put your Bunker at the ramp, put exactly 1 Marine in there, and rally all the rest to the mineral line. Try to find the proxy so you know the general direction the Oracles will come from. If he uses the MsC to pressure your front and is trying to use that as bait, simply put a couple of SCVs on repair and rally any Marines after 6 at the mineral line to your Bunker. Eventually you can push it back. Expand on the high ground, get either Factory tech for Widow Mines, or the E-bay for early upgrades and Turrets. Slowly take your natural and transition normally. Ok so would you delay CC for fact/ebay? Cheers man | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On June 20 2013 02:30 DragonKing132 wrote: Hello again, My question hasn't been answered yet so I'll ask it again. As a terren, what should i do against 2 bas roach openings. Be more specific, what build are you doing? | ||
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kckkryptonite
1126 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
I will open up with select's build against zerg of rax, reactor factory, 2 more reactor raxes, starport. and move out when stim and 2 medivacs are ready. I probably won't go CC first though since CC first never works for me against protoss. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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TheBaLinOne
Germany16 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 20 2013 11:50 kckkryptonite wrote: Did anyone catch that BO Flash used to open into Hellbat/MMM in the OSL Ro32 Group A Flash vs RagnaroK BO? CC (hg) rax gas gas (4'10) bunk fact reactor port Armory lab (stim then Marauders). 4 Hellions before starting Hellbat/Medivac production. 7'40 rax rax + third gas. 9' EB, lab + reactor on extra rax once they're done. Couldn't catch the timing of the third, but it was late (he landed the third at 13'30). | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On June 20 2013 15:55 A Wild Sosd wrote: I dont understand how I beat mech with bio. I drop on tanks and hellbats kill everything. I catch him unsieged he sieges and hellbats keep me back while his tanks kill everything. Its so frustrating when I am able to deny his third for such a long time push his mid game pushes back maintain an upgrade lead and he still can walk up to my door with hellbats and tanks and win. Are you taking extra bases yourself whilst denying his third? Also make sure he's not getting any sneaky bases as the extra gas will help his army a lot. Once you get your extra bases make sure you ramp up your production so you can keep the pressure on him and re-max faster than the slower mech | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:52 TheBaLinOne wrote: At the moment, i have some problems with zergs. I open up with fast 3rd CC build with 2 reapers and up to 6 hellions, but after that, the zerg always overruns me with lings or something. I cant really do that much damage on him, since i cant afford to lose my hellions , which often is the case when im on creep. any tips here? If he has a lot of lings you definitely don't want to engage on creep. If you want to harass his mineral line send a pair of hellions in whilst keeping the others near the edge of creep. But generally you don't want to be suiciding them, you should he denying creep spread and forcing lings instead of drones. Make sure you are walling up your natural ramp with a bunker or two and some mines and or hellbats to defend vs aggression from lings. As the zerg has built them hr won't want to waste them doing nothing do he will likely go a speedling attack or a baneling bust. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On June 18 2013 23:42 TheDwf wrote: If you mean Reaper reactor CC EB +1 into 3 rax Medivacs (sorry I have no time to check videos), yes it's a very good build. You can consider it the HotS version of gasless 1 rax FE into 3 rax Medivacs. I didn't watch the linked daily exactly but I know DeMuslim was saying the basic BO is: 10 Depot 12 Rax 12 Gas Reaper -> Reactor CC Depot Ebay -> +1 Rax -> Tech -> Stim Factory -> Reactor Gas Port <=> Factory (+1 armor / CB shields somewhere around here) Gas CC @ 2 medivacs However after spending maybe 10-15 games doing this build I feel the mid game push with 2 medivacs is simply way too weak. I have nothing but marines with +1/+1 but they still get absolutely destroyed by any number of Colossus. Even if they go 1cnr build. So I recently tripped it up and did basically what you were implying. I add 2 raxes before Factory, both with tech labs, and produce some extra marauders and push with a stronger mid game. My third is slightly delayed and my +1 armor is also a bit gas starved but I feel with the composition I can push around the Protoss army more and deny his third far easier. I have a better success rate with this build. I'm wondering if it is just my own personal inability to handle 200vs200 battles in TvP even if my 200 army is better upgraded and I have a better eco behind it. | ||
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