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The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 102

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
June 16 2013 23:17 GMT
#2021
On June 17 2013 07:16 HanSomPa wrote:
How do I identify a Zerg 2 base allin from a 3 base allin?


Check for a third. If he has a third, it's not 2-base all-in. Retreat from there and RE-check the third once it's been up a little bit. No Drones? 3-base all-in using the third for more production.
vovinam
Profile Joined June 2013
China10 Posts
June 17 2013 00:47 GMT
#2022
how do you usually react to nexus first on a 4 players map id you scout them last?
( if open with gas)

i didn't see/ couldn't find from the OP
Vari
Profile Joined September 2010
United States532 Posts
June 17 2013 01:24 GMT
#2023
I'm having trouble right now tvp, I'm doing reaper expand and then reactor/fac to do marine/mine drop

there's a timing where my bunker isn't done, marines aren't popped, and a zealot and stalker can show up if they chrono. even if I rushed the bunker there'd be nothing in it, and if I make one up my ramp I can be contained.

this is with these toss players expanding pretty quickly as well.

currently I'm thinking I'll just get gas at 15 and skip the reaper, but it's so useful for scouting proxies when necessary, seeing if they expand... it's a scary thing to skip with the amount of options protoss have for opening aggression.


I am making everything as quickly as possible, it's done a lot in pro games and they somehow get away with it every time but I don't know what mistake I could be making here.

There is certainly the possibility I'm just screwing it up something awful but I figured I'd ask here if this is a known weakness, or a known weakness for people not executing it quite right.

thanks
Stroke Me Lady Fame
A Wild Sosd
Profile Joined September 2012
Australia421 Posts
June 17 2013 07:39 GMT
#2024
Anyone wanna point me in the right direction with this replay?
http://drop.sc/344313
TvP
Bomber | TaeJa | Life | Scarlett I Twitter: @SosdSC2
Ambre
Profile Joined July 2011
France416 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 07:50:45
June 17 2013 07:48 GMT
#2025
On June 17 2013 16:39 A Wild Sosd wrote:
Anyone wanna point me in the right direction with this replay?
http://drop.sc/344313
TvP


Nvm.
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
Complain
Profile Joined October 2012
Israel29 Posts
June 17 2013 09:16 GMT
#2026
On June 17 2013 10:24 Vari wrote:
I'm having trouble right now tvp, I'm doing reaper expand and then reactor/fac to do marine/mine drop

there's a timing where my bunker isn't done, marines aren't popped, and a zealot and stalker can show up if they chrono. even if I rushed the bunker there'd be nothing in it, and if I make one up my ramp I can be contained.

this is with these toss players expanding pretty quickly as well.

currently I'm thinking I'll just get gas at 15 and skip the reaper, but it's so useful for scouting proxies when necessary, seeing if they expand... it's a scary thing to skip with the amount of options protoss have for opening aggression.


I am making everything as quickly as possible, it's done a lot in pro games and they somehow get away with it every time but I don't know what mistake I could be making here.

There is certainly the possibility I'm just screwing it up something awful but I figured I'd ask here if this is a known weakness, or a known weakness for people not executing it quite right.

thanks


reaper is cool to open with , but against protoss you dont need it to be your first unit .

you can play with your build alittle bit , try to make 12 rax 13 gas , 1st marine and right after that a reaper , it will still scout for any early timing he goes and for expansion openings , but you should be more carefull with it because it came later.

im opening with this build for a long time now and i expand at my main. i dont like the idea of him rushing me and my cc is building on the low ground , sometimes it'll get canceled . so i can suggest you to build it in your main , and if you find him aggresive early just put 1 bunker under the ramp of your main or behind the wall , if he contains it'll delay his expansion by much and you can stay 1 base until you get medivacs to push out ! gl
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 18 2013 14:42 GMT
#2027
On June 06 2013 09:54 mau5mat wrote:
Hey Dwf, wondering if you could answer some questions regarding TvP. At the minute, it is my worst matchup by far, and is holding me back from making that final push to Masters. I have a hard time getting an 'edge' in this matchup, and I have a hard time settling on a build. What I mean is, I will generally try to be aggressive with the main poke, and try to drop to keep momentum. What happens more often than not, is I don't do enough damage with dropping, and I feel behind. I feel behind because I can't seem to punish Protoss players greed, or I have a hard time identifying greed that is not Nexus first, or Nexus before Cybercore Define greed? The MSC has drastically changed the standards for Protoss' "greed" in PvT..

My games usually go something like this;

1. I scout proxy What kind of proxy? If proxy Oracle, don't overestimate your lead if you hold it. If he simply goes 1gS expand you're slightly ahead but you should not try to end the game with 5 rax or something like that. It's better to proceed as usual, go 3 rax third and reap the benefits of his later third with a strong timing (when Protoss is in a bad or worse than usual position, building and holding their third is their weakness). --> I hold proxy and feel ahead --> I try and pressure --> I lose to deathball

2. Game proceeds macro --> I try and pressure--> I lose to deathball

If I can't win before a point, I feel like I have lost the game.

I have a hard time being aggressive, if my first initial attempts at aggression fail, or are swatted away without much effort, I feel I am on a timer and a razors edge, which makes me play nervously, which compounds in a twitchy, terrible engagement, or throwing units at the Protoss in the form of drops, to try and achieve something to even the score.

Another number of things I have noted, I'm always at a upgrade disadvantage standard, do I get upgrades the normal route, e.g. Engibay(1) gets +1, and halfway through Armor +1, add on Engibay(2) and Armory? Adding second EB + Armory when +1 armor is at 95/160 is standard indeed, but how late you will be on upgrades compared to Protoss' armor depends on when you build that first EB; for example if you go Reaper expand into EB you will be 2 minuts ahead of a standard WoL EB timing for a 3 rax Medivacs. Overall, faster EBs are required on HotS since Protoss can get (much) earlier forge(s). I seem to have trouble getting the gas for the tech I want midgame, I go fairly Marauder heavy Define Marauder-heavy? If it's truly the case, know that Marauder-heavy better fits for heavy midgame harass based on raids and drops, so you have to inflict damage or you will end up with a worse composition against mass Zealots., which obviously cuts into my gas (Do I want to go more Marine heavy, with only a few Marauders?), and I am unsure of when to take my 4th Gas. (which I presume is build dependent, but is there a general time?) Fourth gas depends on builds orders, and particularly how early you make your Armory. Generally I get my fourth gas when I start my Starport (but again, this is because I play "early" Armories). For example, if you play Reaper reactor expand EB +1 → 3 rax Medivacs, you get your second gas between 6'15 and 6'30, third one around 7'30 (shortly after Factory) and fourth at ~8'30 (shortly after Starport). I'm also unsure of the ideal medivac count I want Anywhere between 6 and 12, cutting after the 3rd and 4th Medivac to make Vikings for Collosus tech doesn't seem to do enough, or is that just me being bad? No it's standard. You can stay on 4 Medivacs the whole game against committed Colossus path if you intend to all-in with SCVs/bio/Vikings. Is substituting Hellbats for Marines viable outside 1-2 base gimmickry? No Do I want to play passive with my army when I reach max No, to try and keep a favorable position for an engagement for instance? Do I cut producing army to get Viking/Ghost tech so I don't max too early? Don't max fast on a "bad" composition if you have no timing with it, e. g. maxing with like 30 Marauder 40 Marines 6 Vikings no Ghost against 4 Colossi 5 HTs will likely result in a disaster. Aim at having the appropriate max in the first place, otherwise you will likely lose the first engagement, which results in a loss or a painful death animation. If I do max early on an inferior composition, do I want to trade with drops, or multi-pronged ground aggression to free up supply? Are drops worth it? I have seen a lot of pro's favor keeping the Medivacs with the main army so they don't have to afford buying Medivac/Viking at the same time to make up for lost drops, is this common? Yeah, don't commit Medivacs if you want to get rid of some Marines or Marauders. Kill them yourself.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks in advance.

I tried to answer all your questions but to help you better, I would need to know precisely the build order(s) you use—or a typical replay if you have.



On June 09 2013 08:08 Kid-Fox wrote:
Would it be wise to blindly build at least 2 turrets in your mineral lines in tvp mid-late game once you know the protoss has twilight council?

Yes.



On June 11 2013 07:26 awakenx wrote:
Hm, maybe I should ask a better question, because usually by the time the protoss is supposed to get their third their all-in already pretty much hits. I want to know what are the telltale signs that Protoss is not aiming for a 3rd and is trying to kill you with a 2 base timing push/all-in. That's probably what's been bothering me lately rather than 1 base all-ins.

You can't know for sure, that's the trick.



On June 11 2013 13:13 Whatson wrote:
TheDwf (or anybody else for that matter) what do you think about the reaper FE build that day9 did a daily on? I asked a couple of friends on the ladder and there was a lot of mixed feelings on it.

+ Show Spoiler +
It's been linked a couple of times already but
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-583-demuslim-tvp/


EDIT: As in, about the same as a regular reaper FE/CC first or worse?

If you mean Reaper reactor CC EB +1 into 3 rax Medivacs (sorry I have no time to check videos), yes it's a very good build. You can consider it the HotS version of gasless 1 rax FE into 3 rax Medivacs.



On June 11 2013 15:10 Type|NarutO wrote:
Hey folks!

I try to help as often as possible, but this time I do need some help. I encountered the ghost from the past in Terran vs Protoss. Phoenix/Colossus. First of all, its a very good meta since it does shut down hellbat drops or any drop harass hard, furthermore it became a lot stronger because phoenix now got a range upgrade and the MSC is there for timewarp, so you cannot spread/stim your bio as well to at least minimize colossi damage or stutter step something forward.

Well, and here's my problem. First of all he was greedy as shit, but he meta-gamed hard. He expected mine drop I guess and I was playing reaper FE into mine drop. I don't need to deal damage, because I have my 3rd behind it, but damage is always nice. Well I forced a photon overcharge without losing anything and continued to hellbat drop. Didn't do massive damage, didn't lose anything.

His build was a 1 gate expansion 2 gas mothershipcore and a forge to get 2 defensive cannons. He added robo, support bay etc and got a few units and took a relatively early 3rd base. While I believe it would have been very 'EASY' to punish with a blind standard WoL bio and 2 medivac build, I believe in the current state of the game it was nearly unpunishable for me. Ofcourse I am not a perfect player but lets get to the later game.

Phoenix and colossi, both massive amounts. I lost a 200/200 engagement dropping 100 supply in less than a second without storm. BelShire is a great map for it, since there is no room to move around or have a good concave. I shift-ed all colossi with my 16 vikings, but phoenix RAPE vikings. In WoL I sometimes used to build 1-2-3 thors to shoot down phoenix, didn't do this time, but my question is... how do I encounter it?-_- It seemed nearly impossible to beat. Ofcourse I know I am far from a top Terran nowadays and this is no balance whine, where's the mistake or how should I approach that composition?

He was 'lacking' upgrades (defence, shields) but got +3 vs my 3-2 I think.

On June 11 2013 15:57 Type|NarutO wrote:
Not even half of his colossus died. he had 8-10 colossus and at least 20 phoenix. I had 16 vikings but was maxed out. If I switch to all-air, he can probably switch to all ground and win. Well, I think figuring out beforehand and doing something in the first place should be the goal-_- meh.

Lucky you if you encountered this horror only once so far. I would say there are two approaches against Phoenixes/Colossi:
a) kill him before critical mass, e. g. Illusion vs Macsed, Akilon Wastes, WCS America. Was probably not possible in your case, which leads us to:
b) build mass Vikings on dual reactor port with a few Mines to set a trap against his Phoenixes when an engagement occurs. An example of such a trick can be found in Bogus vs Bong, Korhal Floating Island, SPL. And when I say "mass" Vikings, I do say mass. If he truly had 8-10 Colossi and at least 20 Phoenixes, you needed like 25-30 Vikings. No joke; if you have less you will simply get stomped (as you saw). If he has only or mostly Phoenixes as an anti-air (i. e. no/few stalks and no Archon/no Storm), just retreat your bio and let your Vikings kill everything (Phoenixes first, then Colossi). When the Colossus count is reduced to bearable numbers (i. e. 3-4 or less), you can unleash your bio.



On June 15 2013 03:15 Aquila- wrote:
In TvP, when the Protoss starts with templer and archon tech off 2 base, I cant really afford to get medivacs and upgrades and ghosts, cutting upgrades is obviously bad, so should I cut some starport production to get ghosts up quickly? Or should I try to get a third first with gas running and then get ghost? Thanks!

Yes, generally you want to wait your third running before adding Ghosts. A higher Medivac count is necessary against zeal/archons/storm anyway.



On June 17 2013 09:47 vovinam wrote:
how do you usually react to nexus first on a 4 players map id you scout them last?
( if open with gas)

i didn't see/ couldn't find from the OP

Depends on your build. If you opened with some kind of 1-1-1 Marines/Mines/Medivac pressure, it will be better for you since Nex first has a later robo.



On June 17 2013 10:24 Vari wrote:
I'm having trouble right now tvp, I'm doing reaper expand and then reactor/fac to do marine/mine drop

there's a timing where my bunker isn't done, marines aren't popped, and a zealot and stalker can show up if they chrono. even if I rushed the bunker there'd be nothing in it, and if I make one up my ramp I can be contained.

this is with these toss players expanding pretty quickly as well.

currently I'm thinking I'll just get gas at 15 and skip the reaper, but it's so useful for scouting proxies when necessary, seeing if they expand... it's a scary thing to skip with the amount of options protoss have for opening aggression.


I am making everything as quickly as possible, it's done a lot in pro games and they somehow get away with it every time but I don't know what mistake I could be making here.

There is certainly the possibility I'm just screwing it up something awful but I figured I'd ask here if this is a known weakness, or a known weakness for people not executing it quite right.

thanks

1) SCV scout to check if Protoss gets a Zealot and sends him right away towards your base.
2) Send your Reaper to attack the Zealot so he has to retreat until his first Stalker comes, thus slowing down his progression.
3) Meanwhile, prepare a Bunker at home, which should be ready when the Stalker arrives at your ramp.

Assuming good execution there is no way you should take damage from a standard gate 13, even with chrono'ed units. Maybe you're facing 10 gate or you're not executing the build order properly. Your two first Marines should be out at ~4'50. Building your CC highground for extra safety is also an option.
azngamer828
Profile Joined July 2008
United States137 Posts
June 18 2013 14:57 GMT
#2028
hey everyone, i think i posted this question some time ago but did not really get a decent answer
was wondering if anyone could help me this time around as well as a follow-up question
maybe even THEDWF can help

here are my questions:
1) in a TvZ match up, is it better to go 4M or MMMH when facing against a unit composition of ling/bling/muta or are both ways ok?
i prefer going MMMH because i like splitting marines whereas i dont really prefer mines only because they have to be microed before burrowed in order for them to not all die clumped together to huge baneling splashes but just wondering whats more effective or if they are both equal

2) IF the MMMH is better, how many marauders should you normally make at a time (how many tech labs is preferred on rax)?
i prefer to make maybe 3 marauders at a time before zerg goes up to ultralisk

hope the questions are clear and awaiting everyone's answers

*** Thanks THEDWF for making this thread ^^
Pew Pew
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 18 2013 15:11 GMT
#2029
On June 18 2013 23:57 azngamer828 wrote:
hey everyone, i think i posted this question some time ago but did not really get a decent answer
was wondering if anyone could help me this time around as well as a follow-up question
maybe even THEDWF can help

here are my questions:
1) in a TvZ match up, is it better to go 4M or MMMH when facing against a unit composition of ling/bling/muta or are both ways ok?
i prefer going MMMH because i like splitting marines whereas i dont really prefer mines only because they have to be microed before burrowed in order for them to not all die clumped together to huge baneling splashes but just wondering whats more effective or if they are both equal

2) IF the MMMH is better, how many marauders should you normally make at a time (how many tech labs is preferred on rax)?
i prefer to make maybe 3 marauders at a time before zerg goes up to ultralisk

hope the questions are clear and awaiting everyone's answers

*** Thanks THEDWF for making this thread ^^

You're welcome!

1) 4M is better (but also harder to play). Personally I am not convinced by bio/Hellbats as a staple midgame composition against lings/banes/mutas (see the quote below), though it seems playable in low-medium supply fights. In 160+ supply fights I think Zerg wins every time if he has the right amount of Banelings and Mutalisks (e. g. Hack vs EffOrt, Atlas, Code A RO48) and doesn't headbutt your Hellbat wall with his Zerglings.

On April 23 2013 23:59 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 02:42 FirstGear wrote:
I have no idea if its actually viable, but demuslim seems to favour a marine hellbat composition tvz vs ling bane on his stream when I've been watching. I don't know if he was just experimenting though. I quickly clicked through the VODS I was last watching for examples:

http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390478259 - game being played about 35 mins in, game 49 mins in & the last game that continues onto the next broadcast (http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390511822 see 15 seconds in) i think.
Note times are example of heavy hellbat use with marines tvz rather than when the game starts.

On an unrelated note, TheDwf the work you do on this thread is amazing. Its incredibly helpful, thanks :-)

Thanks.

I watched the VODs and I am not convinced by this Marines/Hellbats thing. You lack the "critical ranged AoE threshold" which gives Zerg nightmares when too many Mines (or Tanks) are on the field, and since Hellbats are melee-like units they're not helpful against Banelings (plus they don't one-shot Zerglings before +3 attack mech, by which time Zerg should be on Hive anyway). Increased strain will thus be put on the shoulder of Marines to deal with Zerg's army, especially as you're spending a third of your income to build units that don't help against mass Banelings/Mutalisks (Tanks don't shoot air either, but their ability to kill Banelings from afar makes it so more Marines remain to fight large Mutalisks fleet). Additionally, Hellbats don't have Stim, so you will inevitably perform inferior splits with them. In the Akilon Wastes game, Stephano had no troubles building a commanding lead despite having average engagements and fighting offcreep. If Zerg doesn't lead the charge with his Zerglings right into the Hellbats wall I don't see this having much chances against an army with 15+ Mutalisks and 25+ Banelings on creep.

2) Yes, 2-3 Marauders at most per round of production by midgame (same with 4M). Usually it's 2.
tianGO
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina591 Posts
June 18 2013 16:43 GMT
#2030
Hey guys. Are there any decent allins/cheeses vs protoss?
I play macro in tvz and tvt, but I absolutely despise tvp. I tried different strategies , but I just don't enjoy playing the matchup very much.
In wol I used to do 111 style allins, and had like 65% win ratio (mid masters), but that stuff doesn't work in hots.

Thanks.
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 18 2013 16:46 GMT
#2031
On June 19 2013 01:43 tianGO wrote:
Hey guys. Are there any decent allins/cheeses vs protoss?

If you talk about 1-base things, no.
tianGO
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina591 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 16:54:28
June 18 2013 16:54 GMT
#2032
Thanks fot the quick reply!
It doesn't have to be necessarily 1 base. Maybe some 2 base strong timing pulling scvs?
I just don't want to play late game tvp.

"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
tenklavir
Profile Joined November 2010
Slovakia116 Posts
June 18 2013 16:56 GMT
#2033
On June 19 2013 01:54 tianGO wrote:
Thanks fot the quick reply!
It doesn't have to be necessarily 1 base. Maybe some 2 base strong timing pulling scvs?
I just don't want to play late game tvp.


Best time to do that is when they're trying to transition from storm to collos or vice versa, especially if they're being greedy about it with 2x forge or colossi with no range
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 18 2013 17:03 GMT
#2034
On June 19 2013 01:54 tianGO wrote:
Thanks fot the quick reply!
It doesn't have to be necessarily 1 base. Maybe some 2 base strong timing pulling scvs?
I just don't want to play late game tvp.

Yes, against Colossi (≠ single Colossus without range into Templars) you can play 2- or 3-bases SCVs/bio/Vikings all-ins. But there's no such thing against Zealots/Archons/Storm, though you can try to hit the timing in which they're starting their first Colossi, or simply try to dismantle them with drops so they don't reach lategame. 2-bases bio/Tanks all-ins can vaguely work too, especially if your harass was somewhat successful, but if that's not the case and your opponent is playing Zealots/Archons/Immortals you will get smashed hard.
VAGZ
Profile Joined September 2010
574 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 17:07:03
June 18 2013 17:06 GMT
#2035
Hi terran friends, I'm about to pick up SC2 again after some while and just wanted to make sure, is the info listed in the OP updated and still relevant?

Also what are some good terran pros that you can recommend learning from? like mainly build orders and stuff. Is Mvp really good still? He has always been my favorite.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 18 2013 17:12 GMT
#2036
On June 19 2013 02:06 VAGZ wrote:
Hi terran friends, I'm about to pick up SC2 again after some while and just wanted to make sure, is the info listed in the OP updated and still relevant?

It hasn't been updated in a while, but most of the things are still relevant. Just ask if you have doubts. Yes, you can still study Mvp, and you can also learn a lot from top KeSPA Terrans such as Bogus (Innovation) or Flash.
tianGO
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina591 Posts
June 18 2013 17:38 GMT
#2037
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
What about that build MVP used in WCS? A timing push with siege tanks, stim, shields and +1 bio weapons I believe.
I watched some vods and seems a nice build, but rather specific, I don't know if it works in all the maps, or maybe its terrible against certain builds.

The problem is I don't play much time so I kinda always neglected tvp because it's my least favorite matchup. I just want something simple and effective lol.
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
bvb
Profile Joined March 2013
22 Posts
June 18 2013 19:29 GMT
#2038
How do you beat the Protoss deathball? No matter how well I play, I still lose. I can be up 2 bases and still lose it's ridiculous. They can switch between mass collossi and mass templar relatively easily, and making that switch for Terran is really time-consuming. In a protoss army with 3-4 collossi, ~6 HTs, a few archons, few stalkers, and mass speedlots, what is the ideal composition? How do you even micro? The range of EMPs are so short and one micro misstep and I'll lose my entire army. So frustrating. Should I go marines at all? What is the top priority in such a fight.

I've tried varying my opener and I've found a 15 CC -> 3 rax to give me the best results. I've tried a few of the korean builds involving mines but I find you have to be surgical with them in order to maximize their usage. What do you guys think of the 15 CC build?

I'm a ~1300 pt masters if it matters. Thanks for any help!
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
June 18 2013 20:24 GMT
#2039
On June 19 2013 04:29 bvb wrote:
How do you beat the Protoss deathball? No matter how well I play, I still lose. I can be up 2 bases and still lose it's ridiculous. They can switch between mass collossi and mass templar relatively easily, and making that switch for Terran is really time-consuming. In a protoss army with 3-4 collossi, ~6 HTs, a few archons, few stalkers, and mass speedlots, what is the ideal composition? How do you even micro? The range of EMPs are so short and one micro misstep and I'll lose my entire army. So frustrating. Should I go marines at all? What is the top priority in such a fight.

I've tried varying my opener and I've found a 15 CC -> 3 rax to give me the best results. I've tried a few of the korean builds involving mines but I find you have to be surgical with them in order to maximize their usage. What do you guys think of the 15 CC build?

I'm a ~1300 pt masters if it matters. Thanks for any help!


Read OP for question 1, 2 , 3
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
June 18 2013 21:17 GMT
#2040
On June 19 2013 04:29 bvb wrote:
How do you beat the Protoss deathball? No matter how well I play, I still lose. I can be up 2 bases and still lose it's ridiculous. They can switch between mass collossi and mass templar relatively easily, and making that switch for Terran is really time-consuming. In a protoss army with 3-4 collossi, ~6 HTs, a few archons, few stalkers, and mass speedlots, what is the ideal composition? How do you even micro? The range of EMPs are so short and one micro misstep and I'll lose my entire army. So frustrating. Should I go marines at all? What is the top priority in such a fight.

I've tried varying my opener and I've found a 15 CC -> 3 rax to give me the best results. I've tried a few of the korean builds involving mines but I find you have to be surgical with them in order to maximize their usage. What do you guys think of the 15 CC build?

I'm a ~1300 pt masters if it matters. Thanks for any help!


CC first is 14CC, not 15CC, I like it, the thread on TL is really informative, but I prefer Reaper --> Reactored Marines/Mines/Medivac pressure into bio aggression.

Thanks for the answer btw TheDwf!
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