The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 102

On June 06 2013 09:54 mau5mat wrote:
Hey Dwf, wondering if you could answer some questions regarding TvP. At the minute, it is my worst matchup by far, and is holding me back from making that final push to Masters. I have a hard time getting an 'edge' in this matchup, and I have a hard time settling on a build. What I mean is, I will generally try to be aggressive with the main poke, and try to drop to keep momentum. What happens more often than not, is I don't do enough damage with dropping, and I feel behind. I feel behind because I can't seem to punish Protoss players greed, or I have a hard time identifying greed that is not Nexus first, or Nexus before Cybercore Define greed? The MSC has drastically changed the standards for Protoss' "greed" in PvT..

My games usually go something like this;

1. I scout proxy What kind of proxy? If proxy Oracle, don't overestimate your lead if you hold it. If he simply goes 1gS expand you're slightly ahead but you should not try to end the game with 5 rax or something like that. It's better to proceed as usual, go 3 rax third and reap the benefits of his later third with a strong timing (when Protoss is in a bad or worse than usual position, building and holding their third is their weakness). --> I hold proxy and feel ahead --> I try and pressure --> I lose to deathball

2. Game proceeds macro --> I try and pressure--> I lose to deathball

If I can't win before a point, I feel like I have lost the game.

I have a hard time being aggressive, if my first initial attempts at aggression fail, or are swatted away without much effort, I feel I am on a timer and a razors edge, which makes me play nervously, which compounds in a twitchy, terrible engagement, or throwing units at the Protoss in the form of drops, to try and achieve something to even the score.

Another number of things I have noted, I'm always at a upgrade disadvantage standard, do I get upgrades the normal route, e.g. Engibay(1) gets +1, and halfway through Armor +1, add on Engibay(2) and Armory? Adding second EB + Armory when +1 armor is at 95/160 is standard indeed, but how late you will be on upgrades compared to Protoss' armor depends on when you build that first EB; for example if you go Reaper expand into EB you will be 2 minuts ahead of a standard WoL EB timing for a 3 rax Medivacs. Overall, faster EBs are required on HotS since Protoss can get (much) earlier forge(s). I seem to have trouble getting the gas for the tech I want midgame, I go fairly Marauder heavy Define Marauder-heavy? If it's truly the case, know that Marauder-heavy better fits for heavy midgame harass based on raids and drops, so you have to inflict damage or you will end up with a worse composition against mass Zealots., which obviously cuts into my gas (Do I want to go more Marine heavy, with only a few Marauders?), and I am unsure of when to take my 4th Gas. (which I presume is build dependent, but is there a general time?) Fourth gas depends on builds orders, and particularly how early you make your Armory. Generally I get my fourth gas when I start my Starport (but again, this is because I play "early" Armories). For example, if you play Reaper reactor expand EB +1 → 3 rax Medivacs, you get your second gas between 6'15 and 6'30, third one around 7'30 (shortly after Factory) and fourth at ~8'30 (shortly after Starport). I'm also unsure of the ideal medivac count I want Anywhere between 6 and 12, cutting after the 3rd and 4th Medivac to make Vikings for Collosus tech doesn't seem to do enough, or is that just me being bad? No it's standard. You can stay on 4 Medivacs the whole game against committed Colossus path if you intend to all-in with SCVs/bio/Vikings. Is substituting Hellbats for Marines viable outside 1-2 base gimmickry? No Do I want to play passive with my army when I reach max No, to try and keep a favorable position for an engagement for instance? Do I cut producing army to get Viking/Ghost tech so I don't max too early? Don't max fast on a "bad" composition if you have no timing with it, e. g. maxing with like 30 Marauder 40 Marines 6 Vikings no Ghost against 4 Colossi 5 HTs will likely result in a disaster. Aim at having the appropriate max in the first place, otherwise you will likely lose the first engagement, which results in a loss or a painful death animation. If I do max early on an inferior composition, do I want to trade with drops, or multi-pronged ground aggression to free up supply? Are drops worth it? I have seen a lot of pro's favor keeping the Medivacs with the main army so they don't have to afford buying Medivac/Viking at the same time to make up for lost drops, is this common? Yeah, don't commit Medivacs if you want to get rid of some Marines or Marauders. Kill them yourself.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks in advance.

On June 09 2013 08:08 Kid-Fox wrote:
Would it be wise to blindly build at least 2 turrets in your mineral lines in tvp mid-late game once you know the protoss has twilight council?

On June 11 2013 07:26 awakenx wrote:
Hm, maybe I should ask a better question, because usually by the time the protoss is supposed to get their third their all-in already pretty much hits. I want to know what are the telltale signs that Protoss is not aiming for a 3rd and is trying to kill you with a 2 base timing push/all-in. That's probably what's been bothering me lately rather than 1 base all-ins.

On June 11 2013 13:13 Whatson wrote:
TheDwf (or anybody else for that matter) what do you think about the reaper FE build that day9 did a daily on? I asked a couple of friends on the ladder and there was a lot of mixed feelings on it.

+ Show Spoiler +

EDIT: As in, about the same as a regular reaper FE/CC first or worse?

On June 11 2013 15:10 Type|NarutO wrote:
Hey folks!

I try to help as often as possible, but this time I do need some help. I encountered the ghost from the past in Terran vs Protoss. Phoenix/Colossus. First of all, its a very good meta since it does shut down hellbat drops or any drop harass hard, furthermore it became a lot stronger because phoenix now got a range upgrade and the MSC is there for timewarp, so you cannot spread/stim your bio as well to at least minimize colossi damage or stutter step something forward.

Well, and here's my problem. First of all he was greedy as shit, but he meta-gamed hard. He expected mine drop I guess and I was playing reaper FE into mine drop. I don't need to deal damage, because I have my 3rd behind it, but damage is always nice. Well I forced a photon overcharge without losing anything and continued to hellbat drop. Didn't do massive damage, didn't lose anything.

His build was a 1 gate expansion 2 gas mothershipcore and a forge to get 2 defensive cannons. He added robo, support bay etc and got a few units and took a relatively early 3rd base. While I believe it would have been very 'EASY' to punish with a blind standard WoL bio and 2 medivac build, I believe in the current state of the game it was nearly unpunishable for me. Ofcourse I am not a perfect player but lets get to the later game.

Phoenix and colossi, both massive amounts. I lost a 200/200 engagement dropping 100 supply in less than a second without storm. BelShire is a great map for it, since there is no room to move around or have a good concave. I shift-ed all colossi with my 16 vikings, but phoenix RAPE vikings. In WoL I sometimes used to build 1-2-3 thors to shoot down phoenix, didn't do this time, but my question is... how do I encounter it?-_- It seemed nearly impossible to beat. Ofcourse I know I am far from a top Terran nowadays and this is no balance whine, where's the mistake or how should I approach that composition?

He was 'lacking' upgrades (defence, shields) but got +3 vs my 3-2 I think.

On June 11 2013 15:57 Type|NarutO wrote:
Not even half of his colossus died. he had 8-10 colossus and at least 20 phoenix. I had 16 vikings but was maxed out. If I switch to all-air, he can probably switch to all ground and win. Well, I think figuring out beforehand and doing something in the first place should be the goal-_- meh.

On June 15 2013 03:15 Aquila- wrote:
In TvP, when the Protoss starts with templer and archon tech off 2 base, I cant really afford to get medivacs and upgrades and ghosts, cutting upgrades is obviously bad, so should I cut some starport production to get ghosts up quickly? Or should I try to get a third first with gas running and then get ghost? Thanks!

On June 17 2013 09:47 vovinam wrote:
how do you usually react to nexus first on a 4 players map id you scout them last?
( if open with gas)

i didn't see/ couldn't find from the OP

On June 17 2013 10:24 Vari wrote:
I'm having trouble right now tvp, I'm doing reaper expand and then reactor/fac to do marine/mine drop

there's a timing where my bunker isn't done, marines aren't popped, and a zealot and stalker can show up if they chrono. even if I rushed the bunker there'd be nothing in it, and if I make one up my ramp I can be contained.

this is with these toss players expanding pretty quickly as well.

currently I'm thinking I'll just get gas at 15 and skip the reaper, but it's so useful for scouting proxies when necessary, seeing if they expand... it's a scary thing to skip with the amount of options protoss have for opening aggression.


I am making everything as quickly as possible, it's done a lot in pro games and they somehow get away with it every time but I don't know what mistake I could be making here.

There is certainly the possibility I'm just screwing it up something awful but I figured I'd ask here if this is a known weakness, or a known weakness for people not executing it quite right.

thanks

On June 18 2013 23:57 azngamer828 wrote:
hey everyone, i think i posted this question some time ago but did not really get a decent answer
was wondering if anyone could help me this time around as well as a follow-up question
maybe even THEDWF can help

here are my questions:
1) in a TvZ match up, is it better to go 4M or MMMH when facing against a unit composition of ling/bling/muta or are both ways ok?
i prefer going MMMH because i like splitting marines whereas i dont really prefer mines only because they have to be microed before burrowed in order for them to not all die clumped together to huge baneling splashes but just wondering whats more effective or if they are both equal

2) IF the MMMH is better, how many marauders should you normally make at a time (how many tech labs is preferred on rax)?
i prefer to make maybe 3 marauders at a time before zerg goes up to ultralisk

hope the questions are clear and awaiting everyone's answers

*** Thanks THEDWF for making this thread ^^

On April 23 2013 23:59 TheDwf wrote:

Thanks.

I watched the VODs and I am not convinced by this Marines/Hellbats thing. You lack the "critical ranged AoE threshold" which gives Zerg nightmares when too many Mines (or Tanks) are on the field, and since Hellbats are melee-like units they're not helpful against Banelings (plus they don't one-shot Zerglings before +3 attack mech, by which time Zerg should be on Hive anyway). Increased strain will thus be put on the shoulder of Marines to deal with Zerg's army, especially as you're spending a third of your income to build units that don't help against mass Banelings/Mutalisks (Tanks don't shoot air either, but their ability to kill Banelings from afar makes it so more Marines remain to fight large Mutalisks fleet). Additionally, Hellbats don't have Stim, so you will inevitably perform inferior splits with them. In the Akilon Wastes game, Stephano had no troubles building a commanding lead despite having average engagements and fighting offcreep. If Zerg doesn't lead the charge with his Zerglings right into the Hellbats wall I don't see this having much chances against an army with 15+ Mutalisks and 25+ Banelings on creep.

On June 19 2013 01:43 tianGO wrote:
Hey guys. Are there any decent allins/cheeses vs protoss?

On June 19 2013 01:54 tianGO wrote:
Thanks fot the quick reply!
It doesn't have to be necessarily 1 base. Maybe some 2 base strong timing pulling scvs?
I just don't want to play late game tvp.

On June 19 2013 02:06 VAGZ wrote:
Hi terran friends, I'm about to pick up SC2 again after some while and just wanted to make sure, is the info listed in the OP updated and still relevant?