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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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redsniper
Germany8 Posts
i always get crushed when my first 2 helions are out .. wall in done there if i smell all in so here my questions : -how can i stop 2hatch bane/ling all in ? banelings crush my bunker even if scv repair and then speedlings finish me off cause of the 2 helion timing ! i got a wall in there ! -how can i defend 2 hatch early zergling attack ? i often die by facing 6-8 zerglings when my rax is building reactor and factory is in production when i only got 2-3 marines in my bunker ?? greets redsniper | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On June 14 2013 05:16 ( bush wrote: Simple question: In TvZ, most of the time my option is MMM + Hellbats, should i upgrade their armor or their attack? I see players like Demuslim and he always goes for armor upgrade but i dont understand why. Does the armor upgrade make Hellbats much more tanky or what? Yeah basically. Hellbats do a lot of damage no matter the upgrade, the armor helps them stay alive longer and they have high HP. Hellbats have +2 against light for every upgrade, since it won't decrease the number of attacks it takes to kill lings, armors better. It's kind of like protoss always getting +1 armor first because of zealots if they aren't going double forge. Worth noting though, +3 attack hellbats 1shot +3 armor lings, but +2 attack hellbats still need 2 shots | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 14 2013 05:32 redsniper wrote: hi im a high diamon player and got a brig struggle with TvZ and the counter timings to my first cc! i always get crushed when my first 2 helions are out .. wall in done there if i smell all in so here my questions : -how can i stop 2hatch bane/ling all in ? banelings crush my bunker even if scv repair and then speedlings finish me off cause of the 2 helion timing ! i got a wall in there ! -how can i defend 2 hatch early zergling attack ? i often die by facing 6-8 zerglings when my rax is building reactor and factory is in production when i only got 2-3 marines in my bunker ?? greets redsniper | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On June 14 2013 05:32 redsniper wrote: hi im a high diamon player and got a brig struggle with TvZ and the counter timings to my first cc! i always get crushed when my first 2 helions are out .. wall in done there if i smell all in so here my questions : -how can i stop 2hatch bane/ling all in ? banelings crush my bunker even if scv repair and then speedlings finish me off cause of the 2 helion timing ! i got a wall in there ! -how can i defend 2 hatch early zergling attack ? i often die by facing 6-8 zerglings when my rax is building reactor and factory is in production when i only got 2-3 marines in my bunker ?? greets redsniper Please, post the replay. We can not help you without watching it and checking your BO. I suppose you are going for CC first and the supposed counter are hellions, but need to see the timings. Personally have been forced to completely change my BO, because of every Zerg going all kind of early aggression and actually I am safe,whatever he tries to do.Check this: http://drop.sc/341635 http://drop.sc/341636 | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On June 14 2013 05:52 Dvriel wrote: Please, post the replay. We can not help you without watching it and checking your BO. I suppose you are going for CC first and the supposed counter are hellions, but need to see the timings. Personally have been forced to completely change my BO, because of every Zerg going all kind of early aggression and actually I am safe,whatever he tries to do.Check this: http://drop.sc/341635 http://drop.sc/341636 lol waht league is this. User was warned for this post | ||
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redsniper
Germany8 Posts
got nothing to do with cc first bro but ty | ||
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redsniper
Germany8 Posts
http://drop.sc/343092 | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
Indeed, it is 2base baneling bust. I dont think cc first is that of a difference. Yes, its a a wol video but still usefull. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
Its mid Diamond. The build is an old Bombers from wol.you only need the opening and from there transition into 4M as usual.i havent seen any T on pro level be able to defend this without losing too much.3CC is too greedy and zerg got the perperfect tools to punish it.if innovatio wasnt able,,neither we.. | ||
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redsniper
Germany8 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 14 2013 06:45 redsniper wrote: its very different cause first off all i only got a rax and a factory by the time the attack is coming so i would have to cancel the reactor or left it behind and floating off with the 2 buildings sarfice my bunker which i build at the front for a wall in with supply depots and start bulding 2 new rax there .. but the time window is to big for zerg to just attack when i m flying over with rax and factory They talks about zergstrats on the meta show of artosis, select, illusion and ognis this week (terranepisode). Theognis said he just standard builds tanks to hold all the shitty allins. Maybe watch that episode, could be or situation is discussed in this episode  | ||
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
right now my layout is thus - groundarmy - 1 medvacs -2 vikings -3 as i see the dudes do in some streams. when ghosts come out they take 2 and medvacs go with the army on 1 while 4,5,6 are all production. im wondering whats the fastest way to take a loaded medvac OUT of a control group. right now i load up the dropship, select the control group, shift click the loaded ship to take it out of the group, then reset the hotkey. then i have to click the loaded ship and send it off. this can all a bit tedious and takes a bit of time if my units are all stacked up and i click the empty medvacs or somthing. somtimes i mess this process up and when i engage his army i find the 2 or 3 drops i had around his bases are all flying into his army when i a-moved the control group xD. someone plz tell me there is a easyer, more precise way edit: and when managing multiple drops, do you usually have hotkeys for each?? im using everything up to 7 already, so i usually just manage the drops with the mini map. is this a bad habit for the long run? double edit: what are you guys using space bar for? i already have the f keys set to main and expo locations so a base camera is pretty useless. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On June 14 2013 06:35 redsniper wrote: here is the replay with my problem it always happens like this or i even scout the ling bane all in earlier buti would have to cancel the bunker and then build 3or4 rax for a save wall in ???? cant believe that http://drop.sc/343092 Did you watch the GSL finals? Soulkey recover from 0-3 using such a cheese strategy against the stupid 3CC build done by Innovation every game. Progamers die to this pretry much.In your case, you could abandon natural and Wall in your main ramp,savaging the bunker,maybe trying to build another one up there,but still witl banes would be almost imposible to defend. I consider it BO loss. I posted you some replays and maybe you consider you "too good" for them,but at least you wont die if you use the BO showed there. There are 3CC as well, and early upgrades. I dont uderstand what is the problema with that BO and why yours(innovation) is better or safer... | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
The folks in diamond and masters don't just have spending skill and saturation at that level, but they also army control, unit composition, scouting, and adaptation at that level as well. If a person has diamond macro but is bronze/silver in all the other skills, what league should they expect? High gold perhaps? Now, let's say that person could get out of gold a couple of ways: achieving masters level macro or achieving gold level army control and composition. Which do you think the player can achieve first? Moral of the story: sure macro is the most important thing, but that doesnt make the other skills irrelevant. At some point in your development as a player, the lowest hanging fruit on the road to improvement are going to be things other than macro. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 14 2013 14:59 Smackzilla wrote: @govie, re: stuck in gold The folks in diamond and masters don't just have spending skill and saturation at that level, but they also army control, unit composition, scouting, and adaptation at that level as well. If a person has diamond macro but is bronze/silver in all the other skills, what league should they expect? High gold perhaps? Now, let's say that person could get out of gold a couple of ways: achieving masters level macro or achieving gold level army control and composition. Which do you think the player can achieve first? Moral of the story: sure macro is the most important thing, but that doesnt make the other skills irrelevant. At some point in your development as a player, the lowest hanging fruit on the road to improvement are going to be things other than macro. Totally agree. I got the scouting part under control, gives me some more wins for sure. And armycontrol im already looking for better concaves and such (engage --> retreating 5 cm --> better concave --> fairer engagement). I still need to work at more controlgroups and micro intensive units, but i dont think for reaching plat those two will hold me back too much. Season just started and im 17-8 with 200 points. I need to quadruple that to get promoted (800 points is what battle.net says for promotion). So maybe i didnt play enough games during seasons to get promoted. Storms are the most difficult spell to play against for me as terran (although still good winrate against Protos thx to kiting). So ill start training myself to use some ghosts in every matchup (nukes are funny). Practise makes perfect | ||
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korsarz
29 Posts
Thanks, any feedback is MUCH appreciated. I know that I make tons of mistakes, my BOs are far from being good (well, that depends - stockpiling 500 is utter stupidity - but that doesn't happen very often). I'm just trying to say that with "chaotic builds, bad macro, lack of scouting etc" I am able to beat low platinum zergs/terrans. But I cannot beat mid gold toss (again - not always). I guess I just hit my "skill cap" for Toss and I won't never go up in TvP. It requires much more effort to win than any another MU. I had a perfect BO for WoL (Filtersc 1rax fe) but I cannot figure out how open in Hots. I've tried Demuslim +1 but it requires a lot of multitasking and it's only 2 rax. Dunno - gotta read the first post here. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On June 14 2013 17:19 korsarz wrote: @ Whatson, Drviel Thanks, any feedback is MUCH appreciated. I know that I make tons of mistakes, my BOs are far from being good (well, that depends - stockpiling 500 is utter stupidity - but that doesn't happen very often). I'm just trying to say that with "chaotic builds, bad macro, lack of scouting etc" I am able to beat low platinum zergs/terrans. But I cannot beat mid gold toss (again - not always). I guess I just hit my "skill cap" for Toss and I won't never go up in TvP. It requires much more effort to win than any another MU. I had a perfect BO for WoL (Filtersc 1rax fe) but I cannot figure out how open in Hots. I've tried Demuslim +1 but it requires a lot of multitasking and it's only 2 rax. Dunno - gotta read the first post here. Personally I think this is one of the best openings in TvP: 12 rax 15 ref 15 OC 17 CC @50 gas reactor this build gives you a fast expo, safety vs oracles and with proper scouting and reacting safety vs stalker/msc early pressure. Follow up with a mine or mine and marine drop and the minimum you can do is halt mining time whilst he clears mines. Then depending how much you like tvp lategame you can allin with scvs and Vikings (if you scout colossi) or be in a good position to take a third. A lot of other players are opening fast reaper and playing reactive with the info the collect, but id find it hard vs early oracles (though I don't use that opener so can't say for sure) | ||
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redsniper
Germany8 Posts
no one got eny advise how to stop this ?? i dont need feedback like your second helion was late or why u build 2 more scv´s i need some fundamental advise what to do in this situation the only thing i see is blocking the choke with rax but cant play that every TvZ and he could fool me anyway .. pls im really suffering from this .. is CC first the standard Bo at this moment ?? greetz | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On June 14 2013 21:30 redsniper wrote: and again ! http://drop.sc/343251 no one got eny advise how to stop this ?? i dont need feedback like your second helion was late or why u build 2 more scv´s i need some fundamental advise what to do in this situation the only thing i see is blocking the choke with rax but cant play that every TvZ and he could fool me anyway .. pls im really suffering from this .. is CC first the standard Bo at this moment ?? greetz I wrote it some post before: CC first is not standart now. Only because Innovation make it posible,doesnt mean, the rest of us can. Just stop doing it. There is no way to stop it with your actual BO. I ve see today people like MKP,Select,Painuser and SC NOT going CC first. Not anymore. On Whirlwind is so obvius,that you will lose every single game by BO loss. As you could see,even beaing able to scout it(usually no,because they got speedlings at 6:00 min),you cant stop it. Is it so difficutl for you to use another BO or insted of 3CC make 2 rax? SC was doing this,no 3cc and early 2 rax to defend. He was even going reactor hellion expand as in WoL with the CC on low ground. There is no standart TvZ BO at the moment, because of the game still evolving. Some try mech,other reaper expand.1CC, reactor hellion, widow mine drop, hellbat drop.... | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On June 14 2013 17:05 govie wrote: Totally agree. I got the scouting part under control, gives me some more wins for sure. And armycontrol im already looking for better concaves and such (engage --> retreating 5 cm --> better concave --> fairer engagement). I still need to work at more controlgroups and micro intensive units, but i dont think for reaching plat those two will hold me back too much. Season just started and im 17-8 with 200 points. I need to quadruple that to get promoted (800 points is what battle.net says for promotion). So maybe i didnt play enough games during seasons to get promoted. Storms are the most difficult spell to play against for me as terran (although still good winrate against Protos thx to kiting). So ill start training myself to use some ghosts in every matchup (nukes are funny). Practise makes perfect I won't be surprised if you get promoted soon. Its all about your MMR, not your current points. I had bonus pool last season, got demoted at the start of this season, and then went 4-2 and got promoted back into my league. Things are in a weird state of flux now that blizzard tweaked things this season. Storm is scary, for sure. Dig through Demuslim's streams for some TvP. His control vs. templars is a thing of beauty. Sometimes he's anticipating the templars as they come forward and then backing up before the storms even hit. | ||
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