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govie
9334 Posts
On June 25 2013 20:43 korsarz wrote: this was my last game as a terran. i'm switching to toss to faceroll every scrub&pro (doesn't really matter bcoz toss can faceroll anyone, anywhere and anytime). this race is a J-O-K-E http://drop.sc/345934 Ingamerage.. evolved to post forumrage?^^  | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
this was my last game as a terran. i'm switching to toss to faceroll every scrub&pro (doesn't really matter bcoz toss can faceroll anyone, anywhere and anytime). this race is a J-O-K-E http://drop.sc/345934 Hf getting raped by drops and silly stuff, protoss is of course easier to play in gold but I'm pretty sure you'll have as hard as a time to deal with quite a lot of thing ^.^ As a side note, blink/MSC all ins are still really hard to deal with damn. I lost to one yesterday and felt helpless, and Taeja just lost to one on stream on Neo planet S while having 2 (nearly 3) spead out bunkers up and a tank, guy just blinked in sniped the tank, denied 3rd bunker and cya x_x | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:22 geokilla wrote: This build seems like it's impossible to defend against a Baneling bust though. Am I correct in assuming so? I know the metagame forces you to play fast 3CC right now, but at the same time, I just lost to a Baneling Bust on ladder. Oh.. the replay: http://drop.sc/345833 You didn't check with your Reapers if he was mining gas beyond 100. You made only 4 Hellions instead of 6 Hellions + 2 Mines. You didn't make a Bunker lowground. You need to produce Marines from your lab rax to fill said Bunker. Beware with the depots, you make too many of them and thus are forced to cut units because you're mineral-starved. Be more active with your units, his Tower doesn't control the lateral paths so he can sneak units. On June 25 2013 20:43 korsarz wrote: http://drop.sc/345934 Don't give up! You didn't build extra production (your rax were full and your money was still stockpiling) and this made you lose, otherwise you would have been in a commanding position even after he defended your push. Make sure to leave your Reaper near his expand to see his Nexus as soon as possible, this way you will see he's not going for a real all-in (in this case his build was unreadable because it was beyond bad, but well, you could have landed your natural earlier with that information). Just transition to 5 rax on 2 bases then 7-8 when you have your third saturated. On June 25 2013 06:31 Marathi wrote: I pinched this build a month or two ago from someone in this thread and I was just wondering if people still use it. It seems to work ok, but it feels a bit all-in. Also I don't know what order to throw down extra rax, what addons, ebays, starport, third, etc. I feel like if I get countered by muta I am absolutely fucked! Here is the BO: + Show Spoiler + 12 rax (2 marines before you start reactor) 13 gas 15 OC @100Gas Fact @50Gas Reactor on Rax @400Mins CC @100% Reactor swap to Fact x2 Hellions > TL on Rax Armory x2 Hellions Deny creep spread and get map control with hellions, try to get idea of unit composition Next 100Gas on Stim and begin Marauders @100% Armory begin Hellbat production Push with Marauder/Hellbat ball, about 6 hellbats and 4-5 marauders I think there is a second gas in there somewhere, normally about 19 (maybe I should put 2 in each instead of 3, 3 probably overkill until a bit later) as I struggle to get armory and stim off 1 gas that fast. I really don't know what step to take next, should I start 3rd CC once I push out? Should I throw down 2 extra rax first? Or x2 eBay then two rax? Should I swap fact and barracks around so I can get a Thor and marines so I am safe vs muta? I am looking to transition into MMMM from this. Can someone gief a hand  Edit: This is the original post from May + Show Spoiler + On May 02 2013 22:52 duxx wrote: This TvZ build is quite nice, i win alot of games in master league with it (me playing vs a zerg on the new short rush distance map) the build is like 12 rax (2 marines before u start reactor) 13 gas 15 orbital @100 gas start factory @50 gas reactor on rax @100% reactor -> switch to factory 2 hellions, tech lab on rax armory 2 more hellions Push with 4 hellions stim + marauder production hellbats Push with hellbats/marauders (suggested amount is 6 hellbats and 4-5 marauders~) the amount depends on what you scout and what you think is a good timing to hit. If that didnt kill him, go ahead and transition to bio play with mines or hellbats Third, +2 rax and dual EB, then 5 rax (total). Check for example TaeJa vs TLO, Star Station, HSC VII. TaeJa went Tanks because TLO was playing Roaches, but just let the fact on the reactor to produce Mines and you should be fine for 4M and muta defence (+ Turrets). Note that the build requires a certain amount of damage to equalize. | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
He can attack your harass SCV too, but to win that he has to attack a bit and then wait for his shields to regen, then also just switch SCVs with a full health one. And meanwhile you can continue building your buildings freely. Filling your entire mineral line with pylons should be pretty much impossible: you simply should have marine out by the time he has the resources to do that. Maybe it is possible if he really cuts alot of corners, but then you shouldn't have any kind of defense in his base. Probably more important, to place a row of cannons in your mineral line, his probe is in your mineral line: surrounded by your SCVs. Select a bunch mining around him, attack him. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 25 2013 22:34 stratmatt wrote: How am I supposed to beat a potoss player who scouts me right off the bat and harasses my supply depot building scv, blocks my ramp w a pylon, and then fill my entire mineral line with more pylons? It takes way too long to clear it out with my early marines and I gotta be wary of a cannon rush. After I killed his originl pobe and started killing hte pylons, he send anotherand cannons my natural. I expand and thro down some more raxes but it takes way too long to clar up. In te meantime he ges into secret expo mode with a doubl proxy robo and seriously, this kinda shit makes the game not fun to play.... LOL. when harvesters harras, i know there gonna do early harras stuff. When i see the scoutingharvester comming i Hotkey a scv to key 1. If he harrases my buildingscv's, i can react faster and chase him away. No scv's killed. If the probe try pylons in your mineralline, u could have killed that probe right there. Select workers and kill him, u allready had a near surround right there. Your mistake. The problems isnt the pylons or potential cannons, its the probe that creates them. U need to kill it or chase him away | ||
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korsarz
29 Posts
On June 25 2013 21:29 Nimix wrote: Hf getting raped by drops and silly stuff, protoss is of course easier to play in gold but I'm pretty sure you'll have as hard as a time to deal with quite a lot of thing ^.^ As a side note, blink/MSC all ins are still really hard to deal with damn. I lost to one yesterday and felt helpless, and Taeja just lost to one on stream on Neo planet S while having 2 (nearly 3) spead out bunkers up and a tank, guy just blinked in sniped the tank, denied 3rd bunker and cya x_x Ingamerage.. evolved to post forumrage?^^ I had better macro, better scouting, avoided his storms, killed his workers, killed templar archives with unfinished storm, destroyed a few pylons, gateways, one forge, had bigger army, had better position. I dealt TONNES of dmg, distracted his attention and lost to ONE SINGLE mistake of bad rallying my units. Seriously - I would like to hear constructive critique, except for bad rallying and failed attempt at taking 3rd. I'm helpless. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:00 korsarz wrote: I had better macro, better scouting, avoided his storms, killed his workers, killed templar archives with unfinished storm, destroyed a few pylons, gateways, one forge, had bigger army, had better position. I dealt TONNES of dmg, distracted his attention and lost to ONE SINGLE mistake of bad rallying my units. Seriously - I would like to hear constructive critique, except for bad rallying and failed attempt at taking 3rd. I'm helpless. I answered above. | ||
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mygodsnameiskyle
Canada33 Posts
I am trying to learn/ get better at SC2 HoS. I only just got the game when the expansion came out and I didn't really play a lot of SC1. So lots of times people throw out acronyms that I have no idea what they are talking about. So #1 - is there a place that has all the acronyms? #2 - I am continually getting served in bronze league. I usually try to stick to a standard opening of 9-supply 11-barracks 14-supply (to wall off) 14-gas when the second supply is done I'll make the second barracks then the next gas and factory. When I have 2 or 3 tanks I'll build my expansion but most of the time (especially against Protoss) I get rushed and it's over. I even when and played Protoss for a bit thinking that it was obviously the better race. But that didn't work out either. When reviewing my plays, I find that I rarely scout and when I do, I rarely know what to do when I see something. If I see flyer then I can build turrets but other than rushing to get my vikings out or a thor if I get there. Any suggestions? #3 - Is there a map of "this is good against that" Trying to not get on tilt after a few losses, but most of the time I lose it after 3 losses and just go kill the ai on medium. Thanks in advance | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:59 mygodsnameiskyle wrote: New to team liquid! Watched Day[9]'s daily 100 and thought that I should come here. I am in bronze league for 1v1 silver on 2v2 (but my friend is in diamond, so he carries me a bit). Against ai I can hold on "Hard/harder" but I lose quite a bit in Harder. I am trying to learn/ get better at SC2 HoS. I only just got the game when the expansion came out and I didn't really play a lot of SC1. So lots of times people throw out acronyms that I have no idea what they are talking about. So #1 - is there a place that has all the acronyms? #2 - I am continually getting served in bronze league. I usually try to stick to a standard opening of 9-supply 11-barracks 14-supply (to wall off) 14-gas when the second supply is done I'll make the second barracks then the next gas and factory. When I have 2 or 3 tanks I'll build my expansion but most of the time (especially against Protoss) I get rushed and it's over. I even when and played Protoss for a bit thinking that it was obviously the better race. But that didn't work out either. When reviewing my plays, I find that I rarely scout and when I do, I rarely know what to do when I see something. If I see flyer then I can build turrets but other than rushing to get my vikings out or a thor if I get there. Any suggestions? #3 - Is there a map of "this is good against that" Trying to not get on tilt after a few losses, but most of the time I lose it after 3 losses and just go kill the ai on medium. Thanks in advance #1 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Definitions #2 see below 1. Search day9, demuslim fast +1/+1 study it, train it, and eventually win with it in tvp (easy buildorder for tvp). Its more economical, better upgrades for your troops and gives u a nice basis from which u can get better. 2. Against any race scouting is important. Knowing what too look for and howto react is important (but learning a build+solid macro atm is more important then scouting and adjusting to it). Dont forget that ur ment to loose 50% of the games u play.. u cant win every game. I would suggest scouting for proxies against protos and see his base early and slowley everything will line up. Questions if not answered in OP can be answered in this thread.. 3. Have fun when losing, gg out, watch replay and write 1 thing u did good and 1 thing u could have done better (like scvproduction, spending, engaging, searching for proxies etc). Next game focus on doing that 1 bad thing better and watch replay after if it was better. Thats how i got a better bit by bit. #3 liquidpedia+this thread+watch vods and streams of the pro's (also day9 is good) | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:59 mygodsnameiskyle wrote: New to team liquid! Watched Day[9]'s daily 100 and thought that I should come here. I am in bronze league for 1v1 silver on 2v2 (but my friend is in diamond, so he carries me a bit). Against ai I can hold on "Hard/harder" but I lose quite a bit in Harder. I am trying to learn/ get better at SC2 HoS. I only just got the game when the expansion came out and I didn't really play a lot of SC1. So lots of times people throw out acronyms that I have no idea what they are talking about. So #1 - is there a place that has all the acronyms? #2 - I am continually getting served in bronze league. I usually try to stick to a standard opening of 9-supply 11-barracks 14-supply (to wall off) 14-gas when the second supply is done I'll make the second barracks then the next gas and factory. When I have 2 or 3 tanks I'll build my expansion but most of the time (especially against Protoss) I get rushed and it's over. I even when and played Protoss for a bit thinking that it was obviously the better race. But that didn't work out either. When reviewing my plays, I find that I rarely scout and when I do, I rarely know what to do when I see something. If I see flyer then I can build turrets but other than rushing to get my vikings out or a thor if I get there. Any suggestions? #3 - Is there a map of "this is good against that" Trying to not get on tilt after a few losses, but most of the time I lose it after 3 losses and just go kill the ai on medium. Thanks in advance To add to govie's already stellar advice, I'd suggest watching a lot of streams, especially those with commentary such as DeMusliMs and IdrA's (even if he's playing zerg he gives good advice about the game) as well as watching competitions and videos on youtube. There are a few good youtube guides to help players get from bronze - x league, such as Apollos, FilterSC's and some others. The most important thing is not to give up, I got into the game on release found it really hard as I lost to a lot of people who had played beta, quit and went back to WoW for some months. Got REALLY fed up of WoW and came back to SC2 and was even further behind than before but slowly and surely over the seasons my rank improved, the league I was in got better, etc | ||
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terranimbastimamove
United States81 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:08 terranimbastimamove wrote: Hi everyone I'm top masters terran very solid APM, macro and micro. I have a huge problem with PvT mid-game. Pretty much every game I play protoss always goes double forge and always trys to hit a timing with either collosus or zealot/archon. I've been experimenting with triple CC double eng bay because I thought that since protoss who does this build against me normally plays SUPER DUPER greedy (no units until 8 minutes) and I've noticed that even though I'm very close behind them on upgrades I still die to their timing if I fight them in the open. I've tried all builds and no matter how early i get my upgrades they seem to ALWAYS be ahead I guess due to chrono boost? Even if i hold their timing I usually don't have enough money to get ghosts to counter their templar that they usually will get after timing fails. HELP ANYONE PLEASE I AM ABOUT TO QUIT SC2 BECAUSE OF PROTOSS It sounds like the tod build, tod is an progamer for the xmg team and caster at ESL for WCSEU. He also goes for that doubleupgrade style. If u know if its either collosi or templar... The OP states...... : + Show Spoiler + In general is it better to have the 5 Rax before 3rd CC or the 3rd CC after 3 Rax? 5 rax has a better game against Colossi as first AoE tech (because you can get Vikings on 2 bases, unlike Ghosts), while Zealots/Archons/Immortals and/or Storm with a superior armor upgrade makes it very hard to press on even when you have the supply advantage. See MarineKing vs Seed, Star Station, MLG Showdowns. How to play against Templars? Templar in general are more defensive, stop drops [more] easily, and make it hard to press into their base even with a supply advantage. The downside is templar have no offensive potential for a long time and the templar player gets slaughtered if he tries to push out across the middle because then he can't land a storm and gets kited all day. See Marineking vs Parting from the KSL Finals on Daybreak for an example of this, or Taeja vs MC on Entombed from Asus. Versus Templar players you definitely want to add a 4th cc very quickly and focus on all your tech upgrades because they can't threaten much. In general you want to add a ghost academy as soon as you get a whiff of templar, because if they have templar and you have no ghosts you can't really threaten/attack much. Should I go marauder heavy against templar tech? You certainly don't want to be Marauder-heavy against Templar tech as they always come with Charge Zealots, and Marauders are terrible against Zealots. You want lots of Marines with some Ghosts and a handful of Marauders; having a high Medivac count also matters a lot. See Bomber vs Grubby, Ohana, IEM Cologne VII; and Bomber vs Squirtle, Metropolis, Red Bull Battlegrounds. What is a good time to get Ghosts in a standard game, where the Protoss is going for forge/templar tech? It is somewhat a stylistic choice and map dependent but in general you want ghosts sooner than later. You first want your 3rd cc, 5th rax, and double ebay/armory before even considering ghosts. You can't really attack the Protoss beyond a certain point without ghosts, as storm and feedback are just too strong defensively. On the other hand, getting ghosts will limit your mobility and harass potential a good amount, which is why Marineking, an initiative based player, will delay them as long as he can. Usually once you have the above pre reqs and you see templar its worth it to grab the academy and research energy upgrade, but you don't want to start massing ghosts until later on unless you feel the game will be very passive. 4-6 is a good amount for midgame pressure options, as too many will leave you with too small of an army. If u like the answers given plz support TheDwF and gift him some tl+, haha | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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KF91
Canada221 Posts
I recently started laddering again (After about a year break of playing one season in Gold for WoL); and I've been placed in Silver. I've been faced with a lot of TvT matchups lately, and I've been having a lot of indecisiveness in my games where I don't know if I should go for a fast expand, or quick drops, or if I should be defending against a timed push, etc. This leads to a really convoluted build order where I try to do everything at once (Fast expand, early tanks, blahblah). I can usually fend off cheese builds easily, but I tend to get rolled in macro-based matches (I find it very hard to break their base) I want to focus on improving my mechanics, so I was wondering: - What is a safe approach to take in TvTs in my level? - How do I break their base and "go for the win"? - If I'm at 200/200, what should be my primary goals? EDIT: I realize there are some general TvT strategies on the OP, but they all seem to depend on some early harass, but I don't think I need to depend on harass at my skill level | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:08 terranimbastimamove wrote: Hi everyone I'm top masters terran very solid APM, macro and micro. I have a huge problem with PvT mid-game. Pretty much every game I play protoss always goes double forge and always trys to hit a timing with either collosus or zealot/archon. I've been experimenting with triple CC double eng bay because I thought that since protoss who does this build against me normally plays SUPER DUPER greedy (no units until 8 minutes) and I've noticed that even though I'm very close behind them on upgrades I still die to their timing if I fight them in the open. I've tried all builds and no matter how early i get my upgrades they seem to ALWAYS be ahead I guess due to chrono boost? Even if i hold their timing I usually don't have enough money to get ghosts to counter their templar that they usually will get after timing fails. HELP ANYONE PLEASE I AM ABOUT TO QUIT SC2 BECAUSE OF PROTOSS Replays please. On June 26 2013 03:45 bypLy wrote: question: what is the best opener vs random on a 4 player map like whirlwind? 1 rax FE. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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fastr
France902 Posts
Recently I've been dealing with hellbat drops with a 1 reaper expend into fast factory that allows me to have 2 siege tanks (1 per mineral line) when the drop occurs, and it has helped me to defend it without being behind. But after that point, I just don't know. Even when playing greedy and getting away with it, (fast 3rd cc, fast double upgrades), dropping a lot, denying expension, taking a lot of bases myself, heavy marauder army, I feel i absolutely cant engage straight up the mech army unless the opponent does a big positional blunder, and even then it's rarely cost effective. Do I have to base trade every meching player? Do I have to mech myself? I hate it, it doesnt suit my playstyle at all (macro, multitask oriented). Any suggestions? | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On June 26 2013 06:18 fastr wrote: Hi! I'm a diamond terran player .Looking for general insight here. My question is simple: Is bio just not viable anymore in TvT? Recently I've been dealing with hellbat drops with a 1 reaper expend into fast factory that allows me to have 2 siege tanks (1 per mineral line) when the drop occurs, and it has helped me to defend it without being behind. But after that point, I just don't know. Even when playing greedy and getting away with it, (fast 3rd cc, fast double upgrades), dropping a lot, denying expension, taking a lot of bases myself, heavy marauder army, I feel i absolutely cant engage straight up the mech army unless the opponent does a big positional blunder, and even then it's rarely cost effective. Do I have to base trade every meching player? Do I have to mech myself? I hate it, it doesnt suit my playstyle at all (macro, multitask oriented). Any suggestions? I don't know if bio is still viable but Taeja was still playing it at homestory cup VII, going for gas first 5 reapers off of 2 rax, then going expand into 3 rax medivacs here against kas If you want specific help you could share some replays. When you say the mech doesn't suit your playstyle I have to mention that mech is also very macro oriented with a lot of multitask (drops and hellion plays). | ||
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fastr
France902 Posts
On June 26 2013 07:45 Carmine wrote: I don't know if bio is still viable but Taeja was still playing it at homestory cup VII, going for gas first 5 reapers off of 2 rax, then going expand into 3 rax medivacs here against kas + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLxAh7LKQdQ If you want specific help you could share some replays. When you say the mech doesn't suit your playstyle I have to mention that mech is also very macro oriented with a lot of multitask (drops and hellion plays). Thank you for the VOD, will look into it. You're right about the macro and multitask involved with a mech play, I guess I just don't like the whole dynamic of the hellbats/tanks/medivacs/vikings composition, I just love marines! | ||
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