EPTI'm trying to find a VOD of a pro gamer holding these attacks while doing this opening but haven't had any luck.
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 108
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Vies
Australia57 Posts
I'm trying to find a VOD of a pro gamer holding these attacks while doing this opening but haven't had any luck. | ||
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
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mygodsnameiskyle
Canada33 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:27 govie wrote: #1 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Definitions #2 see below 1. Search day9, demuslim fast +1/+1 study it, train it, and eventually win with it in tvp (easy buildorder for tvp). Its more economical, better upgrades for your troops and gives u a nice basis from which u can get better. 2. Against any race scouting is important. Knowing what too look for and howto react is important (but learning a build+solid macro atm is more important then scouting and adjusting to it). Dont forget that ur ment to loose 50% of the games u play.. u cant win every game. I would suggest scouting for proxies against protos and see his base early and slowley everything will line up. Questions if not answered in OP can be answered in this thread.. 3. Have fun when losing, gg out, watch replay and write 1 thing u did good and 1 thing u could have done better (like scvproduction, spending, engaging, searching for proxies etc). Next game focus on doing that 1 bad thing better and watch replay after if it was better. Thats how i got a better bit by bit. #3 liquidpedia+this thread+watch vods and streams of the pro's (also day9 is good) Thanks! I am busy reading pretty much everything on this site... it's a little overwhelming, but hopefully I can absorb most of it! Thanks to all! | ||
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mygodsnameiskyle
Canada33 Posts
On June 26 2013 12:34 mygodsnameiskyle wrote: Thanks! I am busy reading pretty much everything on this site... it's a little overwhelming, but hopefully I can absorb most of it! Thanks to all! FYI: Played today T(ME)vP and actually won! He brought in void rays into my mineral line I had enough marines to handle. I worked on my macro during the battle and built turrets behind my minerals to stop the second wave. Built some vikings to deal with any more. Figured he would go ground after the heavy air so I got a ton of marauders, marines and medivacs. Walked over, killed his stalkers and zealots and he gg'd! Thanks for the help. On my way to silver... hopefully. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On June 26 2013 10:53 Vies wrote: So I'm thinking of learning the hellbat drop follow up to 14 CC in TvZ, where you get 2nd gas right after the double OC. I am wondering how do you react to a fast ~10 roach push or roach/baneling attack when you have invested gas + mineral into armory + starport? I'm trying to find a VOD of a pro gamer holding these attacks while doing this opening but haven't had any luck. The followup to 14CC TvZ if you choose hellbat drops isn't a double gas right after the expansion. 10 supply 14 cc 15 barracks 16 gas is the basic build order. Get 2 marines, once they are finished and you have 100 gas start the factory (should be before 2nd marine finishes). After the second marine you can get the reactor. Get 2 hellions, the armory and a second gas. You can go up to 4 hellions and I think thats what most pros do when playing this build. The two hellions will provide you with information that are crucial. You will spot incoming roach attacks. Personally I would follow up the second gas with a starport but a techlab on the barracks (not going for double hellbat drops) to have some safety against roach or roach/bane as you can get marauders. You can also allow yourself to send 2 hellbats with a drop while he attacks you which will make his reinforcements bound to his base. Nonetheless, no matter how good you are, its tricky to hold so good luck | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 26 2013 15:04 mygodsnameiskyle wrote: FYI: Played today T(ME)vP and actually won! He brought in void rays into my mineral line I had enough marines to handle. I worked on my macro during the battle and built turrets behind my minerals to stop the second wave. Built some vikings to deal with any more. Figured he would go ground after the heavy air so I got a ton of marauders, marines and medivacs. Walked over, killed his stalkers and zealots and he gg'd! Thanks for the help. On my way to silver... hopefully. U will have some slumbs too. If so, go back to the basics, get the buildorder spot on, practise scouting etc. To help u a bit more, When i started out i lost to alot of 1 or 2 base allins. MrLlamma is a hero thread help me out alot. Yes, it's a bit outdated but the basics still stand. I suggest that after u get the buildorder spot on, and scout every game, u look at this thread and see what ur scouting for so u can prepare. It helped me so much too understand allins for every race and how to prepare (it was for a buildorder that looks quite similar to the demuslim build, so this information lines up pretty well). But thats step 2, when u can scout+do the build properly. | ||
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DieStar
Poland81 Posts
On June 26 2013 10:53 Vies wrote: So I'm thinking of learning the hellbat drop follow up to 14 CC in TvZ, where you get 2nd gas right after the double OC. I am wondering how do you react to a fast ~10 roach push or roach/baneling attack when you have invested gas + mineral into armory + starport? I'm trying to find a VOD of a pro gamer holding these attacks while doing this opening but haven't had any luck. You should have techlab on barracks right after switchs reactor/fact, recruit 2 marauders and you are pretty safe against 10 roaches marauders (in bunker [repair]) + hellbats are enough. In this strategy make like 5~marauders stim pack and 8~~ hellbats then you can do very good timing attack while you take 3 exp, only 1 rax, just after 3rd cc you add +4 rax and you have 5 gogo to mid game  Good Luck! __________________ GM Terran | ||
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surreal1600
United States33 Posts
On June 26 2013 04:14 KF91 wrote: Hi, I recently started laddering again (After about a year break of playing one season in Gold for WoL); and I've been placed in Silver. I've been faced with a lot of TvT matchups lately, and I've been having a lot of indecisiveness in my games where I don't know if I should go for a fast expand, or quick drops, or if I should be defending against a timed push, etc. This leads to a really convoluted build order where I try to do everything at once (Fast expand, early tanks, blahblah). I can usually fend off cheese builds easily, but I tend to get rolled in macro-based matches (I find it very hard to break their base) I want to focus on improving my mechanics, so I was wondering: - What is a safe approach to take in TvTs in my level? - How do I break their base and "go for the win"? - If I'm at 200/200, what should be my primary goals? As a silver terran, I face the same issues. So what I do play offline games vs the AI to memorize my build. This lets me concentrate on aggression when I play a 1vs1. For advice I found these sites helpful : http://day9.tv/archives/?q=terran http://terrancraft.wordpress.com/ http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/ http://ggtracker.com/players/459463/Surreal Edit : This thread has a lot of good advice. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418865 | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 26 2013 10:53 Vies wrote: I'm trying to find a VOD of a pro gamer holding these attacks while doing this opening but haven't had any luck. Sound vs Kane, Bel'shir Vestige, Red Bull Training Grounds. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
1) What mix/count do you want for your barracks as far as reactors and tech labs? 5 and 5? 2) Before the ultra switch, how should you prepare and position yourself to be ready? Naked raxes? Build tech labs ahead of time? 3) How many medivacs are too many? 4) If there are lots of spines at the expansions, how should you adjust your drops? Bigger drops with marauders? Stop dropping and contain and expand all over with PFs? 5) What's the production priority? Marauders > medivacs > mines > marines? 6) What about working in some other tech like ravens and banshees? What about a corrupter response? 7) What's the best way to scout the ultra switch? Drops drops drops? Scan for hive and assume ultras? 8) Should you build marauders before you see the ultra cavern? Before you see hive even when there are no roaches? (sorry if some of these questions are too open-ended/situational) | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On June 27 2013 00:27 Smackzilla wrote: Assuming 4M with three saturated bases and zerg getting ultras (and infestors if possible), I have a few questions: 1) What mix/count do you want for your barracks as far as reactors and tech labs? 5 and 5? 2) Before the ultra switch, how should you prepare and position yourself to be ready? Naked raxes? Build tech labs ahead of time? 3) How many medivacs are too many? 4) If there are lots of spines at the expansions, how should you adjust your drops? Bigger drops with marauders? Stop dropping and contain and expand all over with PFs? 5) What's the production priority? Marauders > medivacs > mines > marines? 6) What about working in some other tech like ravens and banshees? What about a corrupter response? 7) What's the best way to scout the ultra switch? Drops drops drops? Scan for hive and assume ultras? 8) Should you build marauders before you see the ultra cavern? Before you see hive even when there are no roaches? (sorry if some of these questions are too open-ended/situational) 1) / 2) I don't have a fix count, but I usually have 4 reactors, 1 techlab for the midgame stages and I add more barracks as the game continues. I usually end up having 4/5 techlabs and rest reactors. As said I build techlabs beforehand! 3) I think above 10 is too many, but that is also depending on your economy and personal style. 4) Depends on what he is playing. If he is playing muta/ling/bane, don't drop as much. You can do 2 medivac drops to pull him out of position or pull him out of position with your army to drop, I'd never drop more than 2 medivacs against such a mobile army, as it might go very bad. Against ultras you can drop bigger squads, 2-3 medivacs, with addition of marauders. 5) The core of your army is Marine/Marauder and depending on what he is playing, marines or marauders have priority over anything else. Medivacs and mines are units you shouldn't lose as much, but not having medivacs is also crucial to you. I'd say Marine=Marauder>Medivac>Mines, reason being you cannot heal if you don't have units and mines can be negated, marine/marauder are constant and guaranteed damage 6) I like biomine the most. It has most mobility and against ultras, good drops should be key. 7) Drops and scan, you should always know when its coming and what he is up too. There really is no reason not to in TvZ. 8) Really depends on the style you use, lots of good players like bio/mine without marauders, as marauders have terrible DPS against non-roaches. Marines are better in everything besides soaking up damage. If you are not spot on with micro though, you will easily lose lots of marines all the time so its better to add marauders at least a few, if you are not very good with your control. I'd add marauders occasionally, but not before I scout the hive and especially not as many against muta/ling/bane. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
Usually whilst I am harassing with my banshees I build up marine/tank army then push for the game. But in this game he goes for a hellbat drop which I defend with minimal losses (I scout double gas and not many gas units, despite not seeing armory figured he was going hellbats) which I defend with pretty minimal losses, but he scouts my allin. The replay is here: http://drop.sc/346281 Now for me I think the problem was where I sieged and how I didn't use my air dominance to my advantage. See images in spoiler + Show Spoiler + Where I initially sieged up, giving a big archway to the natural which probably would've been good vs zerg or protoss as they would've had to attack me down the ramp. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R7NFRrw.jpg) His second tank comes into play, which put a big hurting on my reinforcements and my siege line - poor viking positioning could've saved the tank nearest to my opponents. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pxuc9ec.jpg) Now, this is my proposed siege positioning with estimated tank range - This way I could've cut any reinforcements off his main to nat ramp and killed some production and supply depots, as well as stopping him from setting his own siege line up on the high ground. Would this be a good place to siege?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qNBqxzE.jpg) I am only a bit anal about the engagements because I LOVE the 1/1/1 marine/tank allin. I still think cloak banshee openers are viable in HotS and I really want to get the 'art' of this allin down to a tee. So any advice would be fantastic Also another quick question, assuming everything goes plain sailing in BO which should hit first hellbat drop or cloakshee? Assuming both went 12rax/13gas. As I don't think this dudes build was the most efficient or he messed it up in some way as I nearly pulled my army away thinking the hellbat drop wasn't coming. | ||
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DigitalEMP
Canada1 Post
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Frij
Canada9 Posts
On June 27 2013 07:09 Marathi wrote: Ok guys, just lost a TvT which I think I lost purely on my positioning and the engagement. I do a 2/1/1 allin in TvT which I normally open with cloakshees, but because he scouted my starport I decided to go for vikings and combat shields hoping he would've wasted some minerals in turrets on his mineral line (but in this case he didn't even respond to the potential banshee - typical!). Usually whilst I am harassing with my banshees I build up marine/tank army then push for the game. But in this game he goes for a hellbat drop which I defend with minimal losses (I scout double gas and not many gas units, despite not seeing armory figured he was going hellbats) which I defend with pretty minimal losses, but he scouts my allin. The replay is here: http://drop.sc/346281 Now for me I think the problem was where I sieged and how I didn't use my air dominance to my advantage. See images in spoiler + Show Spoiler + Where I initially sieged up, giving a big archway to the natural which probably would've been good vs zerg or protoss as they would've had to attack me down the ramp. His second tank comes into play, which put a big hurting on my reinforcements and my siege line - poor viking positioning could've saved the tank nearest to my opponents. Now, this is my proposed siege positioning with estimated tank range - This way I could've cut any reinforcements off his main to nat ramp and killed some production and supply depots, as well as stopping him from setting his own siege line up on the high ground. Would this be a good place to siege?I am only a bit anal about the engagements because I LOVE the 1/1/1 marine/tank allin. I still think cloak banshee openers are viable in HotS and I really want to get the 'art' of this allin down to a tee. So any advice would be fantastic Also another quick question, assuming everything goes plain sailing in BO which should hit first hellbat drop or cloakshee? Assuming both went 12rax/13gas. As I don't think this dudes build was the most efficient or he messed it up in some way as I nearly pulled my army away thinking the hellbat drop wasn't coming. From my own play in Plat, a cloak banshee will hit the hellbat players base about the same time he's loading up his vac. However, I've taken to doing banshee before cloak when I know hellbats are on the way simply because the hellbat build really sucks at shooting up and the extra few seconds are nice. I've also found a huge amount of synergy between 2 mine/4 marine drops into banshees in TvT (techlab onto port right after first Vac pops) simply because often times the mines will leave a few SCVs with 5 health that the marines weren't able to clean up, so banshee 1 shots them. It's very all-in-ish though as it's pretty hard to expo behind cloakshees, especially after first doing a mine drop. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
Look at 3:05 in the video (~4:15 in game time) Troll build by QXC, but I often see 2 gas, sometimes with 2 workers, sometimes with 3, and 2 pylons before I have to leave with a scouting SCV. If they used any chrono on units, you have to leave sooner. Sometimes they expand, sometimes they don't. Everyone keeps saying that I just need to scout better to hold all these bullshit Protoss all-ins, but if you don't open reaper, how can you know what he is doing without getting a lucky scan? And if you open reaper, how do you not die to proxy oracle or many other things without being as good as DeMuslim and can hold everything with 1 barracks and an engineering bay? (His is a really awkward bumpy build, even he gets supply blocked all the time with it because nothing lines up well, and +1 armor is worthless vs Protoss, IMO) If they park a stalker/MSC in front of their natural at 4:30, you can't know, even if you hide an SCV perfectly and run it back in at 5 minutes because they can just snipe it. They could be proxy SG, DTs, double expo, immortal bust, delayed 4 gate... anything. What am I missing? | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
Also, explain what you mean when you say that +1 armor is useless vP | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On June 27 2013 15:17 KingofGods wrote: My goal this season has been to keep average unspent resources below 900. I am doing okay with that (average 928), but problems arise when I reach max, especially when meching tvt and I float a lot of resources. Any suggestions what I should do? I don't want to carelessly through away units just to keep my resources down. What I usually do is build non stop cc's but even that doesn't use up resources fast enough lol. Barracks barracks barracks, although it's nice to keep a bank when you hit late game. after a certain number of rax, you risk screwing yourself over if you have 0 bank and 23 rax. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 27 2013 15:17 KingofGods wrote: My goal this season has been to keep average unspent resources below 900. I am doing okay with that (average 928), but problems arise when I reach max, especially when meching tvt and I float a lot of resources. Any suggestions what I should do? I don't want to carelessly through away units just to keep my resources down. What I usually do is build non stop cc's but even that doesn't use up resources fast enough lol. take more bases faster and prioritize mining gas with the scv's u have. The longer a game goes on, gas gets more important. every bit of gas u can steal from outside bases is a small win lategame. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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