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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
I saw a post on sc2 forums about it and someone said that he pictures a babysitter figure reading a newspaper and just saying every 17 seconds 'build probe' have you improved after this? how so? how is it any differant from having a friend teaching you how to play? how does it differ your play from looking up a build/playstyle? what progress thus far have you made because of it? discuss | ||
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EyesOnMe
57 Posts
I was gonna buy a coaching session...but no. i started in silver and the highest i got was high diamond, and if i focused just a little more I could've reached low masters. Basically, for some people it may help, but....personally i dont think so. if you have the desire and willingness to improve, you will improve whether or not you get coached. you get advice from communities like TL | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
For example, i've seen many (low league) players overmaking stalkers in pvp, which to them is fine (hey i'm keeping my money low!), but is quite a big mistake. Additionally, having an efficient, well thought build that you know inside and out, having it's pros and cons etc explained by a coach can help a player in how he "feels" ingame, since now he will have more goals than simply "build units", he will have benchmarks to compare to, etc. Figuring out a build isn't as easy as just copying stuff from one or a few replays because you will rarely have enough games to study all the various strategies an opponent might do against your new build, and a lower league player's game understanding is likely not as good so he won't spot some pros and cons of certain builds. Finally, tons of people just need help with their mindset. I had a few students with the worst cases of ladder anxiety, due to been obsessed with the "YOU MUST IMPROVE ONLY DO MACRO BUILDS ALLINS TAKE NO SKILL" crap that's being going around for ages. I talked to them a bunch during and after the coaching sessions, and eventually they were able to overcome that too. On the other hand you can't fix outright bad macro by sitting for a few hours with minigun or whatever. You just need to put in the time and play a lot of games (for the most part), because at the end of the day people improve simply by sitting down and playing a ton of games. | ||
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ETisME
12351 Posts
I helped two friends getting into Gold league, just a month after they were placed in bronze. Both are inexperience in RTS and has pretty poor mechanics. I taught them a simple build, 3 gate robo. Tell them what to do (when to move out, when to get an expansion, where to position his army) Explain why these actions are good. Reminds him of upgrades, worker production etc. I also helped them to review some replays and explain what he could have done better and what was the biggest issue of that game. Sometimes if I sit next to them telling them what to do for almost every action, they can even beat Plat players, while they practising on their own, they can match up against mid gold players and making significantly better decisions than before as well as starting to get a better tempo of the game. So it's pretty helpful imo. But there are things you can learn by just watching and playing consistently, as I have taught myself everything about starcraft. | ||
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
Getting advice from a stronger player on your specific game and where it's going wrong cannot POSSIBLY fail to help you. The question is not "Does it help?". The question is "Does it help enough to be worth it?" In my opinion, it doesn't. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
I don't know about masters-GM level, i have been tempted in the past, because i wonder if i have the same problem :/ | ||
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Meldrath
United States620 Posts
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On March 04 2013 17:11 FireMonkey wrote: Okay so to new players it helps, we've established that. What about experienced players so say platinum players plat is not experienced lol coaching is useful up to high masters and past that even pros have team coaches and stuff you can't fix mechanics just by one or two coaching sessions, but a coach can point out to you what sort of mechanical problems you may not even know you had and where you need to focus your efforts on improving; same goes for strategy and game knowledge. it's really hard to take a step back and view your own play dispassionately and a coach is useful for that. | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
On March 04 2013 17:23 Orek wrote: It is hard to find a field in life where a decent coach cannot help a student. If it is free, and no deep commitment is needed, I'd say why not try it. However, when it comes to "paying for coaching," then cost-benefit becomes an issue. Personally, I think today's pro coaching is generally overpriced and not worth the money, but ultimately it's up to students how much they think is worth it. I'd say until you get to master league, paying for coaching is waste of money. Free coaching can provide enough tips. I absolutely agree that free coaching is worth it. I'm not sure how much coaching helps, but an hour of coaching > an hour on the ladder. | ||
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romelako
United States373 Posts
Just like how, say, a piano tutor will teach a student through the material they provide. They'll tell them what they need to learn and what songs to play/practice. Then in between their meeting times, the student has things he/she needs to learn and practice. The coach/tutor will not do the learning for you, but he/she is simply there to guide you through the improvement process, making it much more effective than studying things on your own. Everyone has the capability to get to Master league if they practice a lot, watch professional players and read guides. However, the flaws in their gameplay are for them to find. These flaws aren't always obvious and takes a lot of games to really figure out what's wrong and fix it. Sometimes people are ignorant of their mistakes, so it's the job of the coach/tutor to point out these flaws so the student can progress the right way. From a Starcraft 2 standpoint, coaching is the same as any other sport/hobby that one would get coached in. A coach can instantly point out wrong decisions made by the player and provide an explanation for said decision. He/she can also guide the student with what to focus on in practice (macro over micro) and even provide builds that can help get the student on the right track. All in all, if you're interested in coaching, don't be afraid to ask. There are plenty of people that will be willing to coach you for free and provide you the same amount of feedback a professional player would. Chances are the differences between the Master league coaches and the GM coaches are their greater mechanical skill and nuances in decision-making. If you're Diamond and below, most of your losses will be attributed to macro, and one does not need to pay someone to tell them to macro better. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On March 04 2013 17:11 FireMonkey wrote: Okay so to new players it helps, we've established that. What about experienced players so say platinum players I think coaching gets more helpful the better you play. I don't think to get into plat you need any more than watch 5 day9 dailys. But from there it gets increasingly harder. Someone who is a lot better will spot your mistakes until you are close to his level and maybe even after you are better than him so I think it is always helpful. Also if you want to safe time and not spend 8-10hours researching you can just take 2 lessons and probably have the same or better effect. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
If you play 5 games a week and get coaching from me you will not see significant improvement. Although the players that ACTUALLY want to improve, and play a decent amount of games a day (5+) see significant improvement. Not all, because that would be unrealistic, but most do, and I often get messages days/weeks after saying how much it helped, how much they have improved etc etc. I don't think it's helpful for people who have played a total of 20-30 games of starcraft, at least not really worth the money. Coaching is a shortcut for players, is it necessary? No, but it is without a doubt helpful. | ||
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Dogsi
Indonesia298 Posts
That said, I don't think it's worth it. Unless you are really shooting for GM, I don't think it's necessary. Making masters is just a matter of putting in a few hundred games and learning from your mistakes. | ||
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vijeze
Netherlands719 Posts
On March 04 2013 19:48 Dogsi wrote: Like all competitions, coaching does matter quite a bit. However, you won't improve much at all from a single session. It's about a significant amount of practice and coaching. That said, I don't think it's worth it. Unless you are really shooting for GM, I don't think it's necessary. Making masters is just a matter of putting in a few hundred games and learning from your mistakes. I disagree, personally. I find it terribly hard to break to masters from Diamond. I have about 1500 wins as toss, and watch most of my replies. I find it really hard to improve further from here. | ||
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KirA_TheGreaT
France204 Posts
Paying pro player for some coaching... why not, but their prices are too high. There are top masters coaching for better prices and they can help you as much as a pro player. I think coaching is worth it for people who play a lot but doesn't improve. A coach can teach you the way to play, and to win. Right now i have 900 points in master but i'm pretty sure one hour of coaching by a grandmaster would help me break into top master. Thing is, i have my pride and i want to do it by myself  | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 04 2013 19:27 ROOTMinigun wrote: I probably coach more than any player (that I know of at least) . If you play 5 games a week and get coaching from me you will not see significant improvement. Although the players that ACTUALLY want to improve, and play a decent amount of games a day (5+) see significant improvement. Not all, because that would be unrealistic, but most do, and I often get messages days/weeks after saying how much it helped, how much they have improved etc etc. I don't think it's helpful for people who have played a total of 20-30 games of starcraft, at least not really worth the money. Coaching is a shortcut for players, is it necessary? No, but it is without a doubt helpful. From the man himself. Coaching won't make you macro and micro well, you have to put the effort in yourself to learn that, coaching aids in how you think about the game so will have more significant results from players of a higher level. Of course however there is variance per person. | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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