EPT[D] Does coaching actually help? - Page 9
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Gobbex
Norway4 Posts
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HotStuffs
2 Posts
I don't feel like starcraft is that different from any sport or profession - all of these require: a) a solid foundation b) experience -Basketball players spend tons of time practicing thousands of shots from every position, but consolidate that by playing alot of games. Both drills and experience playing real games make a better basketball player. -Doctors spend two years of medical school going over basic anatomy, physiology, and pathology. They then spend the next two years out on the wards - giving treatment to real patients. You need both a solid knowledge foundation and actual experience with patients to become a successful doctor. -Starcraft players, especially if they are new, can spend a good amount of time just practicing macro and micro basics, but need to put that to good use by actually laddering. They need both foundation and experience. So basically, train a bit on your own with custom games, AND play ladder. You don't have to just do one - why is this issue painted so black and white? | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On March 25 2013 06:40 PanzerElite wrote: Justagame is so right. Ladder is inefficient. simple scenario;"x wants better marine splitting vs banes" --> ladder, gets to practice splitting if opponent is zerg and if opponent makes banes. If splitting fails miserably you die instantly. = almost no time invested into practicing splitting, yep very efficient way to improve. --> custom game, marine split challenge. efficient spending of time to improve splitting. Omg this sounds insane?!~~ lol just lol. If you want gosu marine control it's just stupid to mass ladder games to achieve that goal. It's far more efficient to spamm custom games/retake control with a friend/ teammate and play the same situation over and over again. How else does flash play a ridiculous amount of games a day? Ladder? Nah I'd say customs with teammate's. It's like playing guitar or piano. If you want to improve efficiently you do repetitive exercises to improve that specific technique. Foreign = noob league in comparison with Koreans. I think you miss the big point. That is getting actually better in Starcraft 2. You base your arguments on this simple scenario "x wants better marine splitting vs banes" . I base my arguments on "I want to be better in Starcraft 2". There is no better way to get better then queing like 20-30 games in a row on ladder. You can train your splitting to death, but unless you dedicate to laddering, you are going to get absolutely CRUSHED the second you play an actual real game of Starcraft 2. Also, by playing ladder game, you drill certain things like marine splitting. But while only drilling how to split effectively, you don't practice how to play SC2. Of course, if you are like diamond-master league player and you know (or you are pointed out by someone) you have some big issue that is hurting you a lot, you can actually go ahead and train this specific thing. But overall, what I said is what is going to get you better I believe since this is what I was doing and what got me from platinum to top8 masters. See I play drums. I can spend whole week training paradiddles and rudiments and then I play at concert and I'm just not satisfied with my performance. I mean, I played this part with paradiddle break perfectly, but guess what? Nobody noticed (even I), because my overall performance was not good enough. No go ahead and play 50 live concerts. You don't have to play your paradiddle break perfectly, but oh boy, you are going to be a way better drummer. Notice that it's hard to compare SC2 to drumming, but you can see the pattern. edit: I absolutely agree with the post above mine. Could have saved my time writing my post, lol... | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:40 Everlong wrote: I think you miss the big point. That is getting actually better in Starcraft 2. You base your arguments on this simple scenario "x wants better marine splitting vs banes" . I base my arguments on "I want to be better in Starcraft 2". There is no better way to get better then queing like 20-30 games in a row on ladder. You can train your splitting to death, but unless you dedicate to laddering, you are going to get absolutely CRUSHED the second you play an actual real game of Starcraft 2. Also, by playing ladder game, you drill certain things like marine splitting. But while only drilling how to split effectively, you don't practice how to play SC2. Of course, if you are like diamond-master league player and you know (or you are pointed out by someone) you have some big issue that is hurting you a lot, you can actually go ahead and train this specific thing. But overall, what I said is what is going to get you better I believe since this is what I was doing and what got me from platinum to top8 masters. See I play drums. I can spend whole week training paradiddles and rudiments and then I play at concert and I'm just not satisfied with my performance. I mean, I played this part with paradiddle break perfectly, but guess what? Nobody noticed (even I), because my overall performance was not good enough. No go ahead and play 50 live concerts. You don't have to play your paradiddle break perfectly, but oh boy, you are going to be a way better drummer. Notice that it's hard to compare SC2 to drumming, but you can see the pattern. edit: I absolutely agree with the post above mine. Could have saved my time writing my post, lol... You must be a bad drummer lol. In practice, it's important to spend about half of your time on technical exercises and practicing difficult runs slowly. You should only be playing straight through pieces a handful of times during an entire practice session. This will help you improve much faster than simply trying to play a full piece over and over. Your technique will also be stronger so that each time you encounter new music, you can pick it up more easily and more fluidly because your hands can already do it. Likewise, in Starcraft, you should practice your macro, build order, and mechanics in custom games AND THEN put them together with micro and decision making in ladder games. I'm not saying that ladder games aren't important, but they will not improve your base skill as quickly as practicing specific mechanics in isolation. If you ONLY mass ladder, your improvement will definitely not be as fast, and there's a very good chance you'll start to stagnate. EDIT: If you agreed with the post above you, you probably should have actually agreed with him in your post. I basically just repeated what he said. | ||
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0mg_t1red
Russian Federation104 Posts
 I really enjoy playing starcraft and teaching ppl) So if u want to improve and ready to invest some money I will be glad to help you! I coach bronze – diamond players (8$ per hour). So maybe you will just try and find out :pLessons include: -replay analysis -improving mechanics -most suitable BO for every matchup and MOAR :D For any additional information contact me: email vaniagolushko@gmail.com skype Omg-_-t1red User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26455 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:14 SC2John wrote: You must be a bad drummer lol. In practice, it's important to spend about half of your time on technical exercises and practicing difficult runs slowly. You should only be playing straight through pieces a handful of times during an entire practice session. This will help you improve much faster than simply trying to play a full piece over and over. Your technique will also be stronger so that each time you encounter new music, you can pick it up more easily and more fluidly because your hands can already do it. Likewise, in Starcraft, you should practice your macro, build order, and mechanics in custom games AND THEN put them together with micro and decision making in ladder games. I'm not saying that ladder games aren't important, but they will not improve your base skill as quickly as practicing specific mechanics in isolation. If you ONLY mass ladder, your improvement will definitely not be as fast, and there's a very good chance you'll start to stagnate. EDIT: If you agreed with the post above you, you probably should have actually agreed with him in your post. I basically just repeated what he said. You can't practice everything in isolation, playthroughs are good, ladder is good too. Also people learn things differently anyway, with music I practice pretty much every new technique at full speed, or close to full speed and 'clean it up'. People chastise me and give the 'practice slowly and speed up' speech, which doesn't work for me at all. I end up stuck at a certain tempo and my muscle memory is totally locked in to that. There seems to be this obsession with 'my way is the right way' on here, but people do learn things differently, I don't really think practicing everything in isolation will increase your base skill quicker than ladder and doing 'everything' in a proper game. Ladder will find the flaws in your play, and custom games or specific practice routines can help fix them, then go back and ladder if you so desire, only for it to expose you to some other flaws you were previously unaware of. A lot of Starcraft is making 'reads' of builds, and ladder is the absolute best tool to teach that, if nothing else. Ladder also forces you to confront the unknown. I would definitely extoll the virtues of custom games vs practice partners to work out the viability of some builds, but I do feel certain familiarity with your partners does make it imperfect too. | ||
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Orbry
Russian Federation3 Posts
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Eiskaffee
Germany31 Posts
2 Pro tips with wich everyone can get into master and above -build drones -keep da moneyz low The rest will just come. Its really just about mechanics. | ||
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