How to beat Skytoss with Zerg - Page 6

On February 25 2013 04:48 TheNewerBakery wrote:
The Overcharge Bait - This is designed to help vs Void Rays. Move your army into the Protoss', but move away at the last moment. This should cause the Protoss player to activate the Overcharge ability on his Void Rays. As soon as the ability wears off, move back in and engage. This almost half's a Void Ray's DPS.

On February 25 2013 23:49 ShamW0W wrote:


Actually sums up my thoughts fairly well. My current thinking for potential Zerg AA buffs without going nuts would be:

- Hydralisk starts with +1 range (Happy to get into the details about WHY if needed. Mainly, helps mid-game vs. Terran compositions without having to nerf the early game advantage Reapers give into the ground. Also makes Hydras more viable as effective defensive units vs. early pushes. Leads into my next proposal on why it's relevant to Skytoss.)

- Grooved Spines moved to Hive tech and improved to give Hydras +2 Range (Hydras are now able to effectively add DPS to late-game Zerg compositions)

- Corruption changed to an ability similar to Spirit Link from WC3 which chains units together, sharing damage across them all (effectively gives Zerg an AOE way to deal with massed air without requiring complete re-designs of units)

With these changes you'd see improvements on the holes that the Infestor previously filled in WoL (which made it too strong) while not making any one strategy too powerful from the Zerg.

On February 26 2013 02:57 MrMatt wrote:
I can't help but feel that this problem has less to do with the units and more to do with the explosive 3 base economy. This is a perfect example of a composition that should be hard to get to but with current economy and map layout it is just too easy to sit on three base and max out/slowly take 4th.

I feel this composition should require lots of bases and there for it would be split to defend. Maybe a change of map layout to make thirds harder to secure for protoss? only 1 gas at third? I'm not sure the answer really but I think having a slower economy or forcing the army to split will help. 3 bases is just too easy to turtle on.

On February 26 2013 02:57 MrMatt wrote:
I can't help but feel that this problem has less to do with the units and more to do with the explosive 3 base economy. This is a perfect example of a composition that should be hard to get to but with current economy and map layout it is just too easy to sit on three base and max out/slowly take 4th.

I feel this composition should require lots of bases and there for it would be split to defend. Maybe a change of map layout to make thirds harder to secure for protoss? only 1 gas at third? I'm not sure the answer really but I think having a slower economy or forcing the army to split will help. 3 bases is just too easy to turtle on.

On February 25 2013 05:09 Decendos wrote:
this will work at low level. at higher level this wont work...at all. hydras get destroyed by carriers etc. theres not even need for storm but with storm its even more onesided. feedback prevents any abduct, corruptors are NOT the best AA unit (they get destroyed by storm and voidrays), roaches...no comment, mutalisks...no comment. only thing you got right is ultras.

the best way to deal with skytoss is an ultra queen infestor corruptor army with 230/200 supply with the "spore-trick". something like 5 ultras, 15 infestors, 15 queens, 30 corruptors has the best chance to fight airtoss. the thing is, while toss a-moves and after that just controls his HT to feedback and storm you have to: a-move ultras, corrupt, focus fire with corruptors, transfuse, fungal, spam mass IT, fungal again, transfuse again etc. and all that while mircoing your corruptors out of storm. but if you got the sick APM to do all that you have a small chance to fight skytoss + HT. this only works vs low numbers of carriers. once P reaches 8+ carriers its just gg.

On February 25 2013 06:15 KingLumps wrote:
Good luck engaging a toss when his voids aren't charged. Any smart toss player just retreats if you back off when he activates his voids, only a bronzey would engage after wasting his charge.

Your basic strat sounds like 'let the toss mess up then you win', not too solid a strat...

On February 26 2013 03:34 ProfessionalNoob wrote:
....Except his army is slow as fucking and corruptors are much much faster. You also have fungal so you can always force an engagement as zerg if you want. I feel like the main problem with a lot of zergs now is that with the fungal nerf, they just don't make infestors. They're still really freaking good...it's not like void rays can really dodge fungals, they're not that fast.

On February 26 2013 03:34 ProfessionalNoob wrote:


....Except his army is slow as fucking and corruptors are much much faster. You also have fungal so you can always force an engagement as zerg if you want. I feel like the main problem with a lot of zergs now is that with the fungal nerf, they just don't make infestors. They're still really freaking good...it's not like void rays can really dodge fungals, they're not that fast.

On February 26 2013 03:33 Crownlol wrote:


So it's like broodlord/infestor?
.

On February 26 2013 03:38 Grapefruit wrote:
HA, all you guys just suck ass, I just figured out how to beat Toss 100%.

All you need to do is Neural Parasite a Probe, build a Nexus and there you go, just a few steps up the tech tree and you can just win by making more Tempests and VRs than him. Easy as that.

You can thank me later.

On February 26 2013 04:00 tisalgado wrote:
Completely theorycrafting here... but has someone experimented with mass spores mid map (the way mass spines worked in WOL)... it is a mineral only 0 suply that maybe could help dealing with that? I know you'd eventually have to engage, and tempests outrange them badly, but it'd take a while to go though a spore festor field...

not sure if time would help, since engaging that deathball sill feels impossible, but that's a thought

On February 26 2013 04:09 Henk wrote:
Perhaps having a hive upgrade for hydras that gives +3 range against air?

Something similar has been suggested here, but that was vs air and ground, which might be a bit too much.

Backing off after void rays popped their charge just isn't worth it, because tempests+voidrays will have gotten so many shots off, your army will be too weak to attack again before another the cooldown has been reset.

Maybe allowing blinding cloud to affect air units would help?

On February 26 2013 04:09 Henk wrote:
Perhaps having a hive upgrade for hydras that gives +3 range against air?

Something similar has been suggested here, but that was vs air and ground, which might be a bit too much.

Backing off after void rays popped their charge just isn't worth it, because tempests+voidrays will have gotten so many shots off, your army will be too weak to attack again before another the cooldown has been reset.

Maybe allowing blinding cloud to affect air units would help?