EPTPlus I'm actually curious to see what you guys are saying. If someone did post replays and i missed them then my bad
How to beat Skytoss with Zerg - Page 6
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Buff345
United States323 Posts
Plus I'm actually curious to see what you guys are saying. If someone did post replays and i missed them then my bad | ||
|
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
And no, defending for 20 minutes so I could build my deathball is also not fun, maybe it wins games but it is not fun (as is WoL now). HotS could have fixed both early game and late game but did shit. Zergs are still a shadow of a fun race they were in BW. | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 25 2013 04:48 TheNewerBakery wrote: this one just isn't true. The voids will be fighting corruptor-ultra, those are armored. Overcharge has 16 damage vs armored, no overcharge is 10 vs armored. Even more if we are talking about late game with ultras and actually a fight (that means the protoss has left his cannoned up base) you can safely expect him to have +3 air. That means 19 damage with overcharge and 13 without. How is that half the damage?The Overcharge Bait - This is designed to help vs Void Rays. Move your army into the Protoss', but move away at the last moment. This should cause the Protoss player to activate the Overcharge ability on his Void Rays. As soon as the ability wears off, move back in and engage. This almost half's a Void Ray's DPS. | ||
|
MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
I feel this composition should require lots of bases and there for it would be split to defend. Maybe a change of map layout to make thirds harder to secure for protoss? only 1 gas at third? I'm not sure the answer really but I think having a slower economy or forcing the army to split will help. 3 bases is just too easy to turtle on. | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 25 2013 23:49 ShamW0W wrote: those are pretty good suggestions imo. Well done. I can also suggest making hydra insta-shot unit (no projectice) is also an option. Somebody did a test long time ago in WoL making hydras the same as marines (damage, health, size) but with no instant-shot and it required +2 upgrades (or even 3?) to even it outActually sums up my thoughts fairly well. My current thinking for potential Zerg AA buffs without going nuts would be: - Hydralisk starts with +1 range (Happy to get into the details about WHY if needed. Mainly, helps mid-game vs. Terran compositions without having to nerf the early game advantage Reapers give into the ground. Also makes Hydras more viable as effective defensive units vs. early pushes. Leads into my next proposal on why it's relevant to Skytoss.) - Grooved Spines moved to Hive tech and improved to give Hydras +2 Range (Hydras are now able to effectively add DPS to late-game Zerg compositions) - Corruption changed to an ability similar to Spirit Link from WC3 which chains units together, sharing damage across them all (effectively gives Zerg an AOE way to deal with massed air without requiring complete re-designs of units) With these changes you'd see improvements on the holes that the Infestor previously filled in WoL (which made it too strong) while not making any one strategy too powerful from the Zerg. | ||
|
Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On February 26 2013 02:57 MrMatt wrote: I can't help but feel that this problem has less to do with the units and more to do with the explosive 3 base economy. This is a perfect example of a composition that should be hard to get to but with current economy and map layout it is just too easy to sit on three base and max out/slowly take 4th. I feel this composition should require lots of bases and there for it would be split to defend. Maybe a change of map layout to make thirds harder to secure for protoss? only 1 gas at third? I'm not sure the answer really but I think having a slower economy or forcing the army to split will help. 3 bases is just too easy to turtle on. agreed. actually they should also make naturals more wide open. why not make gateway expand, lingspeed or roaches and helions or more marines/bunker necessary to hold naturals vs aggessions? would all slow down economy and make for much MUCH better games. | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 26 2013 02:57 MrMatt wrote: I can't help but feel that this problem has less to do with the units and more to do with the explosive 3 base economy. This is a perfect example of a composition that should be hard to get to but with current economy and map layout it is just too easy to sit on three base and max out/slowly take 4th. I feel this composition should require lots of bases and there for it would be split to defend. Maybe a change of map layout to make thirds harder to secure for protoss? only 1 gas at third? I'm not sure the answer really but I think having a slower economy or forcing the army to split will help. 3 bases is just too easy to turtle on. it still doesn't fix the problem that late game zvp is way too hard. There should be options for every stage of the game. | ||
|
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 25 2013 05:09 Decendos wrote: this will work at low level. at higher level this wont work...at all. hydras get destroyed by carriers etc. theres not even need for storm but with storm its even more onesided. feedback prevents any abduct, corruptors are NOT the best AA unit (they get destroyed by storm and voidrays), roaches...no comment, mutalisks...no comment. only thing you got right is ultras. the best way to deal with skytoss is an ultra queen infestor corruptor army with 230/200 supply with the "spore-trick". something like 5 ultras, 15 infestors, 15 queens, 30 corruptors has the best chance to fight airtoss. the thing is, while toss a-moves and after that just controls his HT to feedback and storm you have to: a-move ultras, corrupt, focus fire with corruptors, transfuse, fungal, spam mass IT, fungal again, transfuse again etc. and all that while mircoing your corruptors out of storm. but if you got the sick APM to do all that you have a small chance to fight skytoss + HT. this only works vs low numbers of carriers. once P reaches 8+ carriers its just gg. So it's like broodlord/infestor? The biggest problem I've had going skytoss is being too confident in the early-midgame, and getting rolled by ling/hydra pushes. | ||
|
ProfessionalNoob
United States75 Posts
On February 25 2013 06:15 KingLumps wrote: Good luck engaging a toss when his voids aren't charged. Any smart toss player just retreats if you back off when he activates his voids, only a bronzey would engage after wasting his charge. Your basic strat sounds like 'let the toss mess up then you win', not too solid a strat... ....Except his army is slow as fucking and corruptors are much much faster. You also have fungal so you can always force an engagement as zerg if you want. I feel like the main problem with a lot of zergs now is that with the fungal nerf, they just don't make infestors. They're still really freaking good...it's not like void rays can really dodge fungals, they're not that fast. | ||
|
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
All you need to do is Neural Parasite a Probe, build a Nexus and there you go, just a few steps up the tech tree and you can just win by making more Tempests and VRs than him. Easy as that. You can thank me later. | ||
|
Saumure
France404 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:34 ProfessionalNoob wrote: ....Except his army is slow as fucking and corruptors are much much faster. You also have fungal so you can always force an engagement as zerg if you want. I feel like the main problem with a lot of zergs now is that with the fungal nerf, they just don't make infestors. They're still really freaking good...it's not like void rays can really dodge fungals, they're not that fast. You mean like terrans don't make ghosts anymore after it got nerfed? | ||
|
Neverblink
United States31 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:34 ProfessionalNoob wrote: ....Except his army is slow as fucking and corruptors are much much faster. You also have fungal so you can always force an engagement as zerg if you want. I feel like the main problem with a lot of zergs now is that with the fungal nerf, they just don't make infestors. They're still really freaking good...it's not like void rays can really dodge fungals, they're not that fast. Feedback would say "Hello". Mothership core will allow you to see these incoming and feedback in time | ||
|
Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
yes it is at least as OP as BL infestor WAS. BL infestor sucks in HOTS. oh and as stupid as BL infestor. so yeah obv no one wants another imba army. | ||
|
tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
not sure if time would help, since engaging that deathball sill feels impossible, but that's a thought | ||
|
Communism
United States176 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:38 Grapefruit wrote: HA, all you guys just suck ass, I just figured out how to beat Toss 100%. All you need to do is Neural Parasite a Probe, build a Nexus and there you go, just a few steps up the tech tree and you can just win by making more Tempests and VRs than him. Easy as that. You can thank me later. This guy is a genius! Please make a guide post about this, this is by far the most viable way to deal with Skytoss I have seen. | ||
|
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:00 tisalgado wrote: Completely theorycrafting here... but has someone experimented with mass spores mid map (the way mass spines worked in WOL)... it is a mineral only 0 suply that maybe could help dealing with that? I know you'd eventually have to engage, and tempests outrange them badly, but it'd take a while to go though a spore festor field... not sure if time would help, since engaging that deathball sill feels impossible, but that's a thought Tempests have 15 range, and the Toss is in no hurry to kill you. It will take time, but he will kill all you Spores without losing anything. | ||
|
Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
Something similar has been suggested here, but that was vs air and ground, which might be a bit too much. Backing off after void rays popped their charge just isn't worth it, because tempests+voidrays will have gotten so many shots off, your army will be too weak to attack again before another the cooldown has been reset. Maybe allowing blinding cloud to affect air units would help? | ||
|
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:09 Henk wrote: Perhaps having a hive upgrade for hydras that gives +3 range against air? Something similar has been suggested here, but that was vs air and ground, which might be a bit too much. Backing off after void rays popped their charge just isn't worth it, because tempests+voidrays will have gotten so many shots off, your army will be too weak to attack again before another the cooldown has been reset. Maybe allowing blinding cloud to affect air units would help? I really would prefer 1 Supply Hydras with Dark Swarm. | ||
|
tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:09 Henk wrote: Perhaps having a hive upgrade for hydras that gives +3 range against air? Something similar has been suggested here, but that was vs air and ground, which might be a bit too much. Backing off after void rays popped their charge just isn't worth it, because tempests+voidrays will have gotten so many shots off, your army will be too weak to attack again before another the cooldown has been reset. Maybe allowing blinding cloud to affect air units would help? blinding cloud on air would work against that... problem is it would work against everything in the game... how would you ever beat broodlord hydra viper? | ||
|
Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
I don't care if it works or not, I just wanna see corruptors holding umbrellas. | ||
| ||
