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[L][D]HotS Terran Mech Resources/Q&A - Page 19

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Doc Brawler
Profile Joined November 2011
United States260 Posts
October 19 2013 20:39 GMT
#361
On October 18 2013 18:39 AlaxWayLaxed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2013 17:42 llIH wrote:
Is it possible to mech vs protoss? I really want to. Though I see so many pro players and streamers lose when they do it. It typically ends up with a massive air toss army with HTs guarding them.

Openers could be CC first-bunker-reactor hellion?


Yes it is possible to mech against protoss. They are by far the hardest race to use mech against however.

End game you want to have a large raven count. Pdd is our best counter to tempest and hsm is very effective against the protoss ground army due to the nature of its deathball style (lots of clumping means lots of aoe). The best comp i have seen for late game is raven (counter mass tempest with pdd/ mass void with hsm + detection) Ghost (enough to emp imortals sheild/archon and snipe ht) Seigetanks for land aoe, Thors for AA aoe dmg, and hellbats as a buffer against mass chargelots. Its an extremely late game finicky build to achieve and pull off, but it is incredibly effective. Terran has all the units to be able to build a perfect reactionary build to the protoss army. I myself have only got that late game comp due to the matches rarely lasting long enough but It is incredibly powerful composition against protoss.

I have found a very agressive 1-1-1 opener that works well against toss.

12 rax (non stop marine production when done)
13 gas
15 oc
@100 gas factory
@100% factory add starport and tech lab
@100% tech lab build tank
@100% starport add tech lab
@100% tech lab build raven

Continue building tanks and marines and push out when raven is at 90 ish energy with 12 ish marines and 3 tanks. Pull 5-8 scvs to repair tanks and build bunkers in front of the enemy natural. Building one viking to snipe msc is useful.

At this point any excess minerals should be used for cc built bake at base. If it is a long ish seige at thier natural it is possible to build 2 ccs back at base. This will mean we can trade our late expand with a double expand against the toss early expand. (sorry don't have vods to properly explain this).

Build bunkers in front of enemy natural while seige tanks up with in range ( a very map dependant factor for this build.) use raven energy for PDD which counters plantary nexus and hold seige untill nexus is killed. Scvs on auto repair to keep bunkers and tanks alive for as long as possible.

After pulling back from destroying their natural go into standard late game seige compositions. At all times remember that toss can use warp prisms to drop us. Keep some forces at home while seiging in order to deal with wp harras. Heavy raven count recomended for the late game.

This is just my style of TvP playing mech atm


Does this hold off agressive oracle + stalker msc rush? out of curriousity, what league are you doing this build, id like to try it!
I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds
Sissors
Profile Joined March 2012
1395 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-19 22:05:50
October 19 2013 22:03 GMT
#362
@Alax, not strange you rarely get to the late game comp is you all-in every toss you see

But late game you can have as many ravens as you want, they won't actually kill tempests, they can only block their shots. Personally I just go for a few ravens for PDD and observer killing, they don't need real-time information on what my army is doing. While HSM can be very effective against clumped up toss ground army, they are also very well counterable by toss. If you launch from max range he just walks back a bit, otherwise he feedbacks all ravens. And stalkers can just blink away.

Personally I have always at least 10 vikings with me, even if the toss has no air and no colossi. If needed I land them during fights, although of course that isn't exactly effective. But imo you really want them vs colossi, you dont want to try to kill speed prisms with HSMs, and of course in case of an air transition of the toss having already a bunch of vikings is invaluable: If the toss goes voids for some reason HSMs work also reasonably, but vs tempests you need something to actually damage them.

My general strat is opening cloakshees, harass the toss, in general killing probes and I make it a point to deny his third. Behind that I simply get my 200/200 mech army, mainly siege tanks + hellbats + vikings + ghosts, with a few ravens and thors added for diversity.
Metalcore1993
Profile Joined November 2012
New Zealand92 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-20 00:08:20
October 19 2013 22:41 GMT
#363

Does this hold off agressive oracle + stalker msc rush? out of curriousity, what league are you doing this build, id like to try it!


For those wondering, i'm Diamond Level terran. So far i have been able to hold of the first oracle and the early msc + stalker pushes with just the marines pumped from the barracks non stop once its completed. Once the first seige tank pops out at 5:40 ish its deals with the stalker and the marines can deal with the msc. I have not had any trouble with the attacks toss can do do that hit between 5-6 mins, its the later ones at 7 + that have been a real pain for me so far but im still learning.

2nd gas is on 16. While you have the factory building and oc building use those minerals you mine to get that extra gas down. (i don't write out build orders very often). This is most effective on maps where the natural does not have a ramp, eg yeonsu, frost etc. I have done it on akilon alot but its tricky getting good bunker placements.

On October 20 2013 07:03 Sissors wrote:
@Alax, not strange you rarely get to the late game comp is you all-in every toss you see



I just like agressive openings. Playing agressive opening with mech is stronger than playing defensive i find in tvp. Im shit at scouting so i have to rely on something agressive to keep me alive from all ins (and if not an all in, something to catch me back up). I always get vikings as well, Like you said having 10 or so is crucial. Great for sniping obs making using ghost emp easy as well.

Banshess are something i need to try more. May be a good midgame choice for harrassment, will have to try it out.

Ok, Heres a vod of a game i just played doing that build and how i played out the game. Now i played like shit in this game so no need for comments about me being bad and doing shit wrong, i already know. Some protoss wont go for ht and if they do like in this case you can see the damage ravens can do. esp to clumped up air units.

http://drop.sc/362628
https://twitter.com/MetalcoreSC2 http://www.twitch.tv/metalcore1993
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
October 20 2013 11:29 GMT
#364
Im also curious how you would handle a proxy stargate - oracle.
Metalcore1993
Profile Joined November 2012
New Zealand92 Posts
October 20 2013 11:45 GMT
#365
On October 20 2013 20:29 llIH wrote:
Im also curious how you would handle a proxy stargate - oracle.


I have a few games where i come up against that but i play even worse in those. Basically from a 12 rax you can get 5 marines up to deal with the oracle in time. If they do a follow up attack after the oracle it can be difficult to hold. Comes down to scouting and adding bunkers if need be. If i loose to many marines i tend to not attack and just expand behind it as pdd is great for defense as well.
https://twitter.com/MetalcoreSC2 http://www.twitch.tv/metalcore1993
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
October 20 2013 14:03 GMT
#366
How early does the oracle hit with or without proxy approximately?
If going defensive mech. Would it be time to get engi+1turret before it hits or is that completely out of time?
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
October 20 2013 14:36 GMT
#367
Am I the only one who lost faith in Mech Sc2 ? I don't even want to play sc2
@taefoxy
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
October 20 2013 14:39 GMT
#368
On October 20 2013 23:03 llIH wrote:
How early does the oracle hit with or without proxy approximately?
If going defensive mech. Would it be time to get engi+1turret before it hits or is that completely out of time?


I think the fastest oracle I have seen is 5:30.. You could get a turret, but 250 minerals so early will pretty much kill you if he decides to do another dedicated allin. And it is really hard to tell, TvP early game is really coinflippy. So I think it is better to get fast Widow Mine, that is at least "fighting unit" and it 1shots Oracle in case he is not careful. Mostly Protoss players are looking for Widow Mine and won't take the bait, but well, you didn't die to proxy Oracle. :-)
BurningRanger
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany303 Posts
October 20 2013 15:26 GMT
#369
I think I've seen somewhere that even 5:15 is possible with Proxy Oracle.
I wouldn't recommend the early ebay and turrets either. If you get the feeling an Oracle could be coming, you can better throw a Bunker in the mineral line and put a marine in. That's a lot cheaper (and by the way: the effective range is bigger, because the Bunker is larger).
My Livestream: http://www.twitch.tv/burningranger | My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/BurningR4nger
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
October 20 2013 15:35 GMT
#370
Thank you both. That widow mine. I forgot about that.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-20 15:46:24
October 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#371
Why didn't you link Avilo's guide in the OP? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411400
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
October 20 2013 16:31 GMT
#372
On October 21 2013 00:45 Salient wrote:
Why didn't you link Avilo's guide in the OP? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411400


Because this is Mech resources thread while Avilo's guid is for Bio.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12740 Posts
October 20 2013 16:55 GMT
#373
Just in case someone missed it, happy just played mech against nerchio in iem qualifier eu, game 2.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
October 20 2013 17:16 GMT
#374
On October 21 2013 01:55 ETisME wrote:
Just in case someone missed it, happy just played mech against nerchio in iem qualifier eu, game 2.


Vod? :O
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 20 2013 17:40 GMT
#375
On October 21 2013 01:55 ETisME wrote:
Just in case someone missed it, happy just played mech against nerchio in iem qualifier eu, game 2.


did he win? and how early did nerchio scout it?
TL+ Member
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
October 20 2013 20:29 GMT
#376
On October 21 2013 02:40 ReachTheSky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 01:55 ETisME wrote:
Just in case someone missed it, happy just played mech against nerchio in iem qualifier eu, game 2.


did he win? and how early did nerchio scout it?


Yes, he won.. He opened blue flame hellions, I think Nerchio realised pretty quickly. He also played mech vs Dimage game 2 and also won..
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
October 21 2013 01:34 GMT
#377
Can some1 link up those happy game? I can't access WCS site ;( add to op asap
@taefoxy
TameNaken
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Australia361 Posts
October 22 2013 06:15 GMT
#378
Happy vs Nerchio. Mech

http://www.twitch.tv/pughydude/b/471890672

starts around 2:20:00
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
October 22 2013 09:25 GMT
#379
http://www.twitch.tv/pughydude/b/471890672?t=139m0s puts you at this right point in time instantly :-)!
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
October 22 2013 10:04 GMT
#380
I dont think Nerchio realised Mech too early, he needed to use Ling Bane Muta to defend, it looked like he was powering really hard against bio, which backfired.

http://www.twitch.tv/pughydude/b/471890672?t=25m0s Mech vs LiquidRet
Summary: + Show Spoiler +
Same Blueflame Hellion opener. Ret scouts mech seconds before Blueflame hits. Damage isn't game-ending. Really late third (starts just before 13m) for Happy, Ret going Roach Hydra, Happy messes up on the engagement, loses natural, gg's.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
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