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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
It is just so strong timing that not even wall + hellbats, few tanks and 1-2 Thors behind can't hold it. I was thinking that going 2 armory to get as fast upgrades and producing maybe 1 or 2 rounds of Hellbats from tech-labbed factories could be the solution. Since those timings are incredibly chargelot heavy and I can't get enough high tech units in time to deal with it. Any ideas, replays or general advices? | ||
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Creager
Germany1893 Posts
On October 17 2013 15:40 AlaxWayLaxed wrote: I know everything you just said...... So stick to tanks end game. Sweet as, dealing with vipers, spire tech and infestor tech is easy as, Just need to get more efficient in my matches so i can out trade zerg on large maps in long 30-1 hour games Exactly. Another good move is adding rather early Starport(s) and slowly buildig up a viking count, mix in maybe a raven or two, as it helps with mutas (less thors -> more tanks) and likely prevents him from teching to brood lords. If he then tries to outsmart you by building mass roaches or is doing a hard ultra switch, you can use these vikings to bust a base and/or hunt his overlords (if you find his overlord hangout spot, shouldn't be too hard  ) -> buys you time, fucks up his remaxing, rendering his larvae temporarily useless, which can be key against roaches/ultras. | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
I was thinking that going 2 armory to get as fast upgrades and producing maybe 1 or 2 rounds of Hellbats from tech-labbed factories could be the solution. Since those timings are incredibly chargelot heavy and I can't get enough high tech units in time to deal with it. Any ideas, replays or general advices? Yes, going for double armory upgrades with mech is great. Getting 3/3 at 15 mins can be so good when pushing out.If the zerg is slow on upgrades mech can be incredibly efficient in long drawn out battles with scv's repaiaring keeping your army alive and taking minal losses in each enagement. Its scary how strong mech can be against opponents not prepared for it. Edit:+ if your early harrassmnet is very good you can easily afford it if you get lucky (aka kiiling 20 or so drones with some early hellions.) | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On October 17 2013 20:42 AlaxWayLaxed wrote: Yes, going for double armory upgrades with mech is great. Getting 3/3 at 15 mins can be so good when pushing out.If the zerg is slow on upgrades mech can be incredibly efficient in long drawn out battles with scv's repaiaring keeping your army alive and taking minal losses in each enagement. Its scary how strong mech can be against opponents not prepared for it. Edit:+ if your early harrassmnet is very good you can easily afford it if you get lucky (aka kiiling 20 or so drones with some early hellions.) 3/3 at 15 mins? That seems rather unrealistic.. Can you share some replay, or vod where someone does that? I myself can't get 3/3 faster then 17-18 mins (while having decent production to not die to any silly attack) and I start my armories even before 2nd and 3rd factory. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Might I suggest we create a Mech Channel/Group in game to communicate more easilly :D? Or maybe even a Skype channel!!? Anybody interested? | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On October 17 2013 22:05 SC2Toastie wrote: Kollin, hi there! Might I suggest we create a Mech Channel/Group in game to communicate more easilly :D? Or maybe even a Skype channel!!? Anybody interested? Uuu, seems cool, I would concider joining Mech channel and sharing ideas, replays, analyses, etc.. Skype is kinda no-no for me, since I use it a lot while working, so that would create many not wanted situations.. :D | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
If there's enough demand for a Skype group we can add that too, you can PM me said information if you want to. Kind regards | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
More specifiically I wonder what composition I should go for versus what units in tvz and tvp. In tvz I either open for 1 rax cmd or FE depending on mapsize. In tvp I either open 11 gas 13 rax and take it from there or cc-first depending on map size. But Im not sure how many factories to build per base, when to start building ravens, when to put down the armory etc. heeelp  | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
So, for starters, I assume you have the multitask, you'll want to learn the Hellion Banshee opener. Look for Flash vs DongRaeGu IEM NY Decider match 1/3. It shows you the Hellion Banshee opener vs Zerg, what to do and how to transition. Vs Protoss, watch Strelok games, or the twitches of either Avilo (IF he speaks insightful, drops knowledge bombs all around) or HTOMario (Who Mines everything, but isn't as mechanically sound as Avilo is), the most notable mechers. I feel like you can support ~2 factories per base + 1, but this does delay upgrades, expansions and your starport units. Ravens when you are on 8gas. Armory depends on the build, really. vs Protoss Armor is not TOO important, so you can delay the second armory. You'll struggle a lot in the beginning because you need to learn your unit counters again, you get surprised by silly shit, etc. Small tip; with mech is it less terrible to sacrifice a lot of SCVs verse an all in, as the defensive power an established mech army has allows you to power again. REMEMBER: You are no longer on a clock! In the long run YOU instead of the Z/P will have the stronger army! | ||
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Unsane
Canada170 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
3/3 at 15 mins? That seems rather unrealistic.. Can you share some replay, or vod where someone does that? I myself can't get 3/3 faster then 17-18 mins (while having decent production to not die to any silly attack) and I start my armories even before 2nd and 3rd factory. Dont know where i can find of vod of it as its something i have only done a few times. If i get good harrassment with my hellions and he sees me going mech, the response for some zergs is to just out macro me and go for the long game, If i read it successfully i use that to my advantage to be super greedy with upgrades. Its coin flippy as hell to do but it is possible. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
Openers could be CC first-bunker-reactor hellion? | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
On October 18 2013 17:42 llIH wrote: Is it possible to mech vs protoss? I really want to. Though I see so many pro players and streamers lose when they do it. It typically ends up with a massive air toss army with HTs guarding them. Openers could be CC first-bunker-reactor hellion? Yes it is possible to mech against protoss. They are by far the hardest race to use mech against however. End game you want to have a large raven count. Pdd is our best counter to tempest and hsm is very effective against the protoss ground army due to the nature of its deathball style (lots of clumping means lots of aoe). The best comp i have seen for late game is raven (counter mass tempest with pdd/ mass void with hsm + detection) Ghost (enough to emp imortals sheild/archon and snipe ht) Seigetanks for land aoe, Thors for AA aoe dmg, and hellbats as a buffer against mass chargelots. Its an extremely late game finicky build to achieve and pull off, but it is incredibly effective. Terran has all the units to be able to build a perfect reactionary build to the protoss army. I myself have only got that late game comp due to the matches rarely lasting long enough but It is incredibly powerful composition against protoss. I have found a very agressive 1-1-1 opener that works well against toss. 12 rax (non stop marine production when done) 13 gas 15 oc @100 gas factory @100% factory add starport and tech lab @100% tech lab build tank @100% starport add tech lab @100% tech lab build raven Continue building tanks and marines and push out when raven is at 90 ish energy with 12 ish marines and 3 tanks. Pull 5-8 scvs to repair tanks and build bunkers in front of the enemy natural. Building one viking to snipe msc is useful. At this point any excess minerals should be used for cc built bake at base. If it is a long ish seige at thier natural it is possible to build 2 ccs back at base. This will mean we can trade our late expand with a double expand against the toss early expand. (sorry don't have vods to properly explain this). Build bunkers in front of enemy natural while seige tanks up with in range ( a very map dependant factor for this build.) use raven energy for PDD which counters plantary nexus and hold seige untill nexus is killed. Scvs on auto repair to keep bunkers and tanks alive for as long as possible. After pulling back from destroying their natural go into standard late game seige compositions. At all times remember that toss can use warp prisms to drop us. Keep some forces at home while seiging in order to deal with wp harras. Heavy raven count recomended for the late game. This is just my style of TvP playing mech atm | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
One think I've realised is most Protoss players will be very chargelot/Immortal/Archon heavy eventually switching into air. You need lot's of Hellbats and make sure they are well possitioned as a buffer befor the engagement. This way, nearly all Zealots melt instantly and then Immortal/Archon army can't get to your Tank/Thor army and that is where you win the game. I also use few medivas just to make sure I can keep my Hellbats alive. The worst thing that can happen is when you find yourself in a situation with no Hellbats, with lots of hight tech units against massive Protoss warp-gate production. In those cases, just back off and remake your Hellbat counts. Going through my replays I realised I basically only lose when I lose my Hellbat count. Also, make sure to upgrade your mech units properly. What I do is I go 2 armory as soon as I feel safe from any 1base allin and when low on gas, just make 1-2 rounds of Hellbats (you need high count anyways, I'd say like 25-30 is optimal) from tech-labbed factories and dump your gas into upgrades + few medivacs. This way, you can also defend the most scary timing Protoss can do versus mech, the 2 base chargelot + some Immortal, Archon or Ht mixed in. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
On October 18 2013 18:39 AlaxWayLaxed wrote: Yes it is possible to mech against protoss. They are by far the hardest race to use mech against however. End game you want to have a large raven count. Pdd is our best counter to tempest and hsm is very effective against the protoss ground army due to the nature of its deathball style (lots of clumping means lots of aoe). The best comp i have seen for late game is raven (counter mass tempest with pdd/ mass void with hsm + detection) Ghost (enough to emp imortals sheild/archon and snipe ht) Seigetanks for land aoe, Thors for AA aoe dmg, and hellbats as a buffer against mass chargelots. Its an extremely late game finicky build to achieve and pull off, but it is incredibly effective. Terran has all the units to be able to build a perfect reactionary build to the protoss army. I myself have only got that late game comp due to the matches rarely lasting long enough but It is incredibly powerful composition against protoss. I have found a very agressive 1-1-1 opener that works well against toss. 12 rax (non stop marine production when done) 13 gas 15 oc @100 gas factory @100% factory add starport and tech lab @100% tech lab build tank @100% starport add tech lab @100% tech lab build raven Continue building tanks and marines and push out when raven is at 90 ish energy with 12 ish marines and 3 tanks. Pull 5-8 scvs to repair tanks and build bunkers in front of the enemy natural. Building one viking to snipe msc is useful. At this point any excess minerals should be used for cc built bake at base. If it is a long ish seige at thier natural it is possible to build 2 ccs back at base. This will mean we can trade our late expand with a double expand against the toss early expand. (sorry don't have vods to properly explain this). Build bunkers in front of enemy natural while seige tanks up with in range ( a very map dependant factor for this build.) use raven energy for PDD which counters plantary nexus and hold seige untill nexus is killed. Scvs on auto repair to keep bunkers and tanks alive for as long as possible. After pulling back from destroying their natural go into standard late game seige compositions. At all times remember that toss can use warp prisms to drop us. Keep some forces at home while seiging in order to deal with wp harras. Heavy raven count recomended for the late game. This is just my style of TvP playing mech atm Thanks a lot for this. That sounds like a fun thing to try. I need to change my protoss play. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On October 18 2013 18:39 AlaxWayLaxed wrote: Yes it is possible to mech against protoss. They are by far the hardest race to use mech against however. End game you want to have a large raven count. Pdd is our best counter to tempest and hsm is very effective against the protoss ground army due to the nature of its deathball style (lots of clumping means lots of aoe). The best comp i have seen for late game is raven (counter mass tempest with pdd/ mass void with hsm + detection) Ghost (enough to emp imortals sheild/archon and snipe ht) Seigetanks for land aoe, Thors for AA aoe dmg, and hellbats as a buffer against mass chargelots. Its an extremely late game finicky build to achieve and pull off, but it is incredibly effective. Terran has all the units to be able to build a perfect reactionary build to the protoss army. I myself have only got that late game comp due to the matches rarely lasting long enough but It is incredibly powerful composition against protoss. I have found a very agressive 1-1-1 opener that works well against toss. 12 rax (non stop marine production when done) 13 gas 15 oc @100 gas factory @100% factory add starport and tech lab @100% tech lab build tank @100% starport add tech lab @100% tech lab build raven Continue building tanks and marines and push out when raven is at 90 ish energy with 12 ish marines and 3 tanks. Pull 5-8 scvs to repair tanks and build bunkers in front of the enemy natural. Building one viking to snipe msc is useful. At this point any excess minerals should be used for cc built bake at base. If it is a long ish seige at thier natural it is possible to build 2 ccs back at base. This will mean we can trade our late expand with a double expand against the toss early expand. (sorry don't have vods to properly explain this). Build bunkers in front of enemy natural while seige tanks up with in range ( a very map dependant factor for this build.) use raven energy for PDD which counters plantary nexus and hold seige untill nexus is killed. Scvs on auto repair to keep bunkers and tanks alive for as long as possible. After pulling back from destroying their natural go into standard late game seige compositions. At all times remember that toss can use warp prisms to drop us. Keep some forces at home while seiging in order to deal with wp harras. Heavy raven count recomended for the late game. This is just my style of TvP playing mech atm youre not saying when youre adding second gas. Well done. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
On October 20 2013 03:31 Snusmumriken wrote: youre not saying when youre adding second gas. Well done. Quality post How do you expect this to go on? Please bring more to the table. People can do mistakes. I think his build can work | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On October 20 2013 03:55 llIH wrote: Quality post How do you expect this to go on? Please bring more to the table. People can do mistakes. I think his build can work I was making funneh | ||
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