On July 03 2013 05:30 saaaa wrote: I figured out to different styles of playing mech in the TvT MU.
The first one is going for Tank+Hellion and just before the Engagement occurs you transform your Hellbats. (i call it Innovation Style because he uses this. And on the other side a Tank+Hellbat composition with no hellions and like 8 MediVacs for dropping bases and the enemy army in an engagement.
What style is in your opinion better and why? And what style should i use preferably against Pure Bio or Bio+Tank compositions?
i just want to add this here as well - maybe some guys watch only terran help me thread and vice versa
On July 03 2013 05:30 saaaa wrote: I figured out to different styles of playing mech in the TvT MU.
The first one is going for Tank+Hellion and just before the Engagement occurs you transform your Hellbats. (i call it Innovation Style because he uses this. And on the other side a Tank+Hellbat composition with no hellions and like 8 MediVacs for dropping bases and the enemy army in an engagement.
What style is in your opinion better and why? And what style should i use preferably against Pure Bio or Bio+Tank compositions?
i just want to add this here as well - maybe some guys watch only terran help me thread and vice versa
On July 03 2013 05:30 saaaa wrote: I figured out to different styles of playing mech in the TvT MU.
The first one is going for Tank+Hellion and just before the Engagement occurs you transform your Hellbats. (i call it Innovation Style because he uses this. And on the other side a Tank+Hellbat composition with no hellions and like 8 MediVacs for dropping bases and the enemy army in an engagement.
What style is in your opinion better and why? And what style should i use preferably against Pure Bio or Bio+Tank compositions?
i just want to add this here as well - maybe some guys watch only terran help me thread and vice versa
for me it's the 2nd one.
Yes i tend to this style of mech, too but maybe a combination of both is the best.
With the Hellion+Tank Style you can defend drops with fast Blue Flame and some already positioned tanks in your main really well and Blue Flame Hellions are a good option for runbys and scouting hidden expansions and the Hellbat+MediVac style is way better for direct engagements with dropping them on top of the army. I think in TvT Midgame BF Hellions Drops are way more effective than Hellbat Drops because with Mine+TUrret or Bunker+Turret you are pretty well set up as a bio player against those hellbat drops with Hellion Drop you can drop them at the egde of the base and run them in.
Maybe the best solution is maybe 8-10 Hellions and rest in Hellbats with 6-8 MediVacs? What do think about this?
upgrade transform ability for helions in mid game and we have more flexible solution ? I was playing hellbats heavily style so, gonna try helions tho. How bout the helions in other matchups ?
On July 03 2013 16:45 Porishan wrote: upgrade transform ability for helions in mid game and we have more flexible solution ? I was playing hellbats heavily style so, gonna try helions tho. How bout the helions in other matchups ?
I use hellions in pretty much every matchup as I much prefer the range on their splash to hellbats and also archons are far too good against hellbats for them to tank anything.
I always get the research though and depending on the army I scout I may switch into hellbats, like if the opponent is massing lings or just massing zealot immortal then I'll switch into hellbats, if not I'll just sit with hellions and kill him that way. Zerg is weird, I only ever go some hellbats and set up a small wall if he's going mass ling and I then keep the rest as BFH.
My style is a bit different and requires a weird style of play to make work, but when it does, it's great. BFH's are great at running past defenses to kill mineral lines late game too, even if there's cannons the BFH with their range should atleast be able to get a good number of probes and same goes for drones/scvs.
If you do use the hellion style, make sure you abuse the hell out of their mobility. I use like 4 reactors on 3 base if I start banking minerals when maxed and I can't push and just keep throwing small groups of hellions everywhere. It not only allows you to keep his army on the other side of the map, but it allows you to take up a position in the middle and get a fourth/fifth base.
On July 03 2013 16:45 Porishan wrote: upgrade transform ability for helions in mid game and we have more flexible solution ? I was playing hellbats heavily style so, gonna try helions tho. How bout the helions in other matchups ?
yeah sure but to concerns about this.
first you don't have the gas at the stage of the game to upgrade both (Blue Flame and Transform) and the second is that your units have to be "ready" to react either to defend or to drop and not wait for the transform.
If a Bio Player drops your base and you need to transform your hellbats into hellions because they are faster you will loose your whole base..
Maybe defend the Drops with MediVac+Hellbat and Boost and just a few Hellions like 4-6 for runbys?
Grubby just demonstrates perfectly the weakness of mech.
This is the second time you post some random TvP where Protoss player happen to outplay Terran going mech and state that those games demonstrate the biggest weakness of mech. Either be more specific, or don't do this. I could show you games where Terran wins going mech and say it demonstrates the biggest strength of mech. Could this be any less relevant?
Grubby just demonstrates perfectly the weakness of mech.
This is the second time you post some random TvP where Protoss player happen to outplay Terran going mech and state that those games demonstrate the biggest weakness of mech. Either be more specific, or don't do this. I could show you games where Terran wins going mech and say it demonstrates the biggest strength of mech. Could this be any less relevant?
99% of the mech TvP VODs in this thread is posted by me. And I have posted more than 100 VODs of Mech TvP. I can say no one has contributed more mech TvP VOD than me.
This is a resource thread, so I provide the VODs. The following was just my opinion. You don't need to accept it.
Thanks laser, good work as always I appreciate any mech vods contribution fo this thread regardless the result of vods, imo we also can learn a lot in those losing games.
Lately i saw a game of apocalypse against a zerg in a cup match and he went for a reaper Fe into Reactor Fac FE into Cloak banshee and then build 2! additional CC before adding 2 armorys... in fact 5 CC, Double Upgrades with Reacor Fac+Cloak Banshee
i ask myself is this viable as standard? The reapers give complete map control in combination with the later hellions and against all kinds of all-ins you get a banshee with cloak. The additional facs (2nd&3rd) were added at around 10:30. Incredibly game.
I'am interested in your thoughts. if you want i will provide the vod
On July 29 2013 02:08 saaaa wrote: Lately i saw a game of apocalypse against a zerg in a cup match and he went for a reaper Fe into Reactor Fac FE into Cloak banshee and then build 2! additional CC before adding 2 armorys... in fact 5 CC, Double Upgrades with Reacor Fac+Cloak Banshee
i ask myself is this viable as standard? The reapers give complete map control in combination with the later hellions and against all kinds of all-ins you get a banshee with cloak. The additional facs (2nd&3rd) were added at around 10:30. Incredibly game.
I'am interested in your thoughts. if you want i will provide the vod
Quick Roach/Hydra busts will have an advantage against this. They already punish a Hellion/Banshee > 3CC > 2x Armory. Not that those are common at all. Well done Roach/Baneling busts can still do a lot of damage to Hellion/Banshee > 3CC > 2x Armory builds and often times equalize or even get a slight advantage. I suppose you could easily scout a Muta rush but that's always been a way to shut down this kind of build. The Mech follow-up to fast 4CC's doesn't make a ton of sense to me because you are delaying a faster gas for more minerals. Maybe on a map like Akilon Wastes where you can be sure that you can get those 4 bases quickly.
On July 29 2013 02:08 saaaa wrote: Lately i saw a game of apocalypse against a zerg in a cup match and he went for a reaper Fe into Reactor Fac FE into Cloak banshee and then build 2! additional CC before adding 2 armorys... in fact 5 CC, Double Upgrades with Reacor Fac+Cloak Banshee
i ask myself is this viable as standard? The reapers give complete map control in combination with the later hellions and against all kinds of all-ins you get a banshee with cloak. The additional facs (2nd&3rd) were added at around 10:30. Incredibly game.
I'am interested in your thoughts. if you want i will provide the vod
Quick Roach/Hydra busts will have an advantage against this. They already punish a Hellion/Banshee > 3CC > 2x Armory. Not that those are common at all. Well done Roach/Baneling busts can still do a lot of damage to Hellion/Banshee > 3CC > 2x Armory builds and often times equalize or even get a slight advantage. I suppose you could easily scout a Muta rush but that's always been a way to shut down this kind of build. The Mech follow-up to fast 4CC's doesn't make a ton of sense to me because you are delaying a faster gas for more minerals. Maybe on a map like Akilon Wastes where you can be sure that you can get those 4 bases quickly.
yeah i guess it's right. for who are interested in the VOD
EPT
? I was playing hellbats heavily style so, gonna try helions tho. How bout the helions in other matchups ? 
