EPTLuckily, most zergs I play still do the roach/hydra fast push thingy and I have kinda figured out how to deal with that, though there is still a lot of refinement to do obviously.
The (HotS) Protoss Help Me Thread Beta - Page 9
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Luckily, most zergs I play still do the roach/hydra fast push thingy and I have kinda figured out how to deal with that, though there is still a lot of refinement to do obviously. | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On February 01 2013 15:54 Ben... wrote: I've figured out the roach/hydra stuff in PvZ but mutas still seem impossible, even after opening stargate and going into 2 stargate phoenix with range (because they just mass lings and attack move or deny your third and starve you. I started going into zealot/phoenix but if they scout it they just go mass ling/baneling and I can't even remotely hold it). It is so frustrating because I dominate most Terran and Protoss but lose one-sidely to fairly poor Zergs who can't even inject properly or do anything resembling micro. Luckily, most zergs I play still do the roach/hydra fast push thingy and I have kinda figured out how to deal with that, though there is still a lot of refinement to do obviously. play it like wol pvz mass muta. get your third in a fast manner, since he wont have enough to snipe it, unless he dedicates a large amount of resources and time to attempt that which will delay everything else. You need to get blink and storm eventually, the ball of mutas just cant be dealt with using just phoenix. We have more defensive abilities through the mothership core, so make sure its there to turn that nexus into a strong defensive point. And dont be scared to attack, you need to at least be doing counter attacks while his mutas are trying to harass you. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
I have played some zerg players going Nydus really near your expansion then build spore crawlers near them. I just don't know what to do lol. Help Diamond-Plat player here | ||
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On February 02 2013 01:03 nomyx wrote: Hey guys, I was wondering if the Bisu Build works now in PvZ. It seems to be much better on paper; void rays tear through armored structures / units with ease and Dark Shrine is cheaper than ever. Is it viable or would the zerg player just make roach and destroy your base? I dont know if it works as a flat out playstyle that you can use consistantly. But if you open stargate, have a bunch of phoenix and then later transition into DT's then it can be very strong defensively. The phoenix 5 range + the lowered cost of the dark shrine makes it a bit more viable in wol, but when being aggressive, spore crawlers act as both a detector to Dark Templar and a deterrent to phoenix/void ray harass, so it will be difficult getting damage done. Another reason why this style is a little stronger is that the infestor has fallen greatly out of popularity for the time being. in wol, infestors gave a method of detection and rooting through their fungal which made both dt's and and phoenix difficult to utilize in mid map engagements. With all that said, I think yes, phoenix/void ray + dt's can be viable through good control. Dont expect to kill a zerg with it, however I do think its possible to play very greedy and use it defensively until they decide to attack you with something like mass speed-hydras + overseers (Which can be very scary) But I imagine a Psi-storm/chargelot archon composition can be transitioned to in time to defend. | ||
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Obamanation666
United States70 Posts
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
On February 02 2013 05:52 Obamanation666 wrote: For those of you who are wondering if the HOTS leagues are tougher, think about it. Do you think casual gamers are playing Beta? By and large, I can assure you the answer is no. Your playing all of the SC2 Junkies and hardcore gamers. Yeah I think something is definitely wrong with leagues. I was top master one year ago, and I'm now plat on Hots. I mean I've never seen plat with those mechanics and multitask. I may be a bit rusty for sure, but still, I was expecting to be in diamond :p Anyway, I'm now having a good time on Hots beside PvZ. I've so much troubles with this mu. I'm at 85% in pvp, 60% in pvt and 20% in pvz, something goes really bad. My main issue is that I'm so scared of mutas, and then they just switch to hydras and I'm done. I will need a lot of practice to figure out this mu :-/ | ||
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Stingart
122 Posts
On February 02 2013 05:52 Obamanation666 wrote: For those of you who are wondering if the HOTS leagues are tougher, think about it. Do you think casual gamers are playing Beta? By and large, I can assure you the answer is no. Your playing all of the SC2 Junkies and hardcore gamers. I can assure you the answer is yes, i'm in Masters and i've played against Platinum > Grand Master players that belong in WoL Silver. | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On February 02 2013 09:18 Gevna wrote: Yeah I think something is definitely wrong with leagues. I was top master one year ago, and I'm now plat on Hots. I mean I've never seen plat with those mechanics and multitask. I may be a bit rusty for sure, but still, I was expecting to be in diamond :p Anyway, I'm now having a good time on Hots beside PvZ. I've so much troubles with this mu. I'm at 85% in pvp, 60% in pvt and 20% in pvz, something goes really bad. My main issue is that I'm so scared of mutas, and then they just switch to hydras and I'm done. I will need a lot of practice to figure out this mu :-/ I seen this before in another thread. The answer is: Defensive: phoneix into fast archons into storm research. Aggressive: In WoL, multi-prong zealot+prism drops to keep Z pinned spending gas on roaches/banes while either massing 2/2 blink stalkers or teching to HT. In hots, I'm guessing timing attack zealots + MSC would be alternative. | ||
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SupplyBlockedTV
Belgium313 Posts
On February 02 2013 09:43 Stingart wrote: I can assure you the answer is yes, i'm in Masters and i've played against Platinum > Grand Master players that belong in WoL Silver. No the ladder is definatly harder. Yes ok, i went up from bronze to gold in a few games, and still having 80%+ winrate, even tough i only just started playing. But being master in WoL i have a pretty good sense what the level of my opponent is, and the players simply have better mechanics, map awareness, strategy then players of the same league in WoL. But perhaps the fact that koreans are on the server too (i think?)..explains alot  . | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
 Wow all matches played today, the economic graph for me is like way better than the opponents - I die to a one base attack I thought the rite way to learn and play is to macro ( | ||
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SupplyBlockedTV
Belgium313 Posts
On February 03 2013 01:17 vahgar.r24 wrote: PVP ive lost my last 3 games - all of them just go 1 base 3 gate robo timing - I take a natural have an eco advantage but still die Wow all matches played today, the economic graph for me is like way better than the opponents - I die to a one base attack I thought the rite way to learn and play is to macro (According to axslav the right way to learn the game is to master 1base all-ins, then work your way up to 2base allins..(or something like that he said!) untill you are master league. Because what most people dont realise is that there are alot of subtle things in macro play that are just not good for starting players to learn all at once. | ||
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NVRLand
Sweden203 Posts
On February 03 2013 01:17 vahgar.r24 wrote: PVP ive lost my last 3 games - all of them just go 1 base 3 gate robo timing - I take a natural have an eco advantage but still die Wow all matches played today, the economic graph for me is like way better than the opponents - I die to a one base attack I thought the rite way to learn and play is to macro (I don't know what league you are so this my be very obvious if you're dia+ but if you're below you might find it helpful: A one base all-in sacrifies all economy for units. You say you have a natural with probes, that's 400 mins + 50xAmount_of_probes, while he probably stops at 24~ probes. This mean you ofc will be at a disadvantage when he attacks, simply because you and your opponent invested in different part of the game (he invests in early game and you in late game). Before I realised this I always thought I had to hold flawless to win. But when I started to pull probes at once (if you have a nexus up and he doesn't you can pull all nat probes cause you will replenish them really fast with twice the probe production). Sometimes I even see his all-in coming, walk up my ramp and sack my natural, you will not be as behind as you might think (since you have more probes you will be able to saturate your natural much faster than him if you both go for expo when you've traded armies). So the main point is, if you're going eco you must be willing to sacrifice some of your advantage to hold an attack from a player who hasn't invested in eco at all. As I said, I might be Captain Obvious saying these things but I really found it helpful when I died to all-ins all the time  | ||
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NVRLand
Sweden203 Posts
PvT on Newkirk City. I'm WoL diamond, I have no idea what he was :D He opens up cc first and I go for a late nexus with some early oracle harass which do decent (8 kills and continue to get some more in the mid game). Problem is that I am... better. Really, I get my expansions up earlier and my army is always superior to his. The problem is that he goes for sooo much aoe that I just can't get good engagements. He has maaany widow mines and I do catch some (I send a zealot in front to take the damage) but I obviously miss some, he uses ravens for those damn hsm and tanks in the back. he also uses a lot of hellbats. I have no idea how to deal with this... I'd appreciate any tips on how to beat this. I was gonna harass with dts but since he had widow mines all over the map I didn't wanna lose them... I tried some warp prism warpins in his main but they didn't do much. My zealots died to his hellbats, my stalkers died to his tanks in the back and I never got any good colossus count (he had vikings too )The "only" flaw I find in my own gameplay is that my upgrades are pretty poor. I stay on one forge for the whole game but damn it, I was so far ahead? Here's the replay http://drop.sc/301652 thanks for watching! | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
On February 03 2013 08:04 NVRLand wrote: So... I pulled a Nestea and threw away a won game. Around the 20 min mark I'm 190 supply to 120... PvT on Newkirk City. I'm WoL diamond, I have no idea what he was :D He opens up cc first and I go for a late nexus with some early oracle harass which do decent (8 kills and continue to get some more in the mid game). Problem is that I am... better. Really, I get my expansions up earlier and my army is always superior to his. The problem is that he goes for sooo much aoe that I just can't get good engagements. He has maaany widow mines and I do catch some (I send a zealot in front to take the damage) but I obviously miss some, he uses ravens for those damn hsm and tanks in the back. he also uses a lot of hellbats. I have no idea how to deal with this... I'd appreciate any tips on how to beat this. I was gonna harass with dts but since he had widow mines all over the map I didn't wanna lose them... I tried some warp prism warpins in his main but they didn't do much. My zealots died to his hellbats, my stalkers died to his tanks in the back and I never got any good colossus count (he had vikings too )The "only" flaw I find in my own gameplay is that my upgrades are pretty poor. I stay on one forge for the whole game but damn it, I was so far ahead? Here's the replay http://drop.sc/301652 thanks for watching! You were 20 workers ahead of him about 10 minutes into the game. You're right; you should have won. Zealots and Stalkers are terrible against mech. You decided to go with a pure gateway force, but waited until you were maxed out on mostly stalkers to attack into him, and then take your third. Your second attack force is a much better composition as the archons are much better damage dealers. You still have way too many stalkers, but the superior size of your force allows you to push through just barely. Rather than going after his third or his fourth and then backing off and regrouping, which you should have done, you attacked into his natural and lost the few units you had remaining against his reinforcements. In the third engagement, your army is trapped in a very narrow choke where you basically have no chance. You never once tried to seize the watchtowers, even after you did a ton of damage to his economy and needed to know when he was all-inning you, which he should have done. I think you should either go double robo and single stargate or double stargate and single robo on two bases against mech. Double or even triple robo is good for chronoboosting out a lot of immortals which are really strong in straight up engagements in the mid-game. Double stargate allows you to slowly mass tempests to prepare for the late game. Void rays are good if they don't have a lot of vikings, marines, ravens, or thors. In the late game, voids should primarily be used to defend tempests from vikings. Blink stalkers are good if you can find good angles to harass or for defending tempests. Archons are strong if they don't have a lot of ghosts yet. Colossus are always good. Storm is great for defending against vikings. Hallucinate is always a nice damage absorber if they don't have scans. And use guardian shield. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
One thing to note- the hold position probe on the right-side Newkirk spawn has to be in a perfect spot otherwise it's easy to glitch lings through it. I'm not even sure if it's random or can be glitched out no matter what, but just keep that in mind when you're in that spot (if you see him posturing with a bunch of lings you might want to drop a pylon to be safe). Akilon Bottom: http://i.imgur.com/NDn4FPl.jpg Akilon Top: http://i.imgur.com/rZx6rvr.jpg Newkirk Left: http://i.imgur.com/w7hhiFo.jpg Newkirk Right: http://i.imgur.com/RfCeG3Q.jpg | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On February 03 2013 03:07 SupplyBlockedTV wrote: According to axslav the right way to learn the game is to master 1base all-ins, then work your way up to 2base allins..(or something like that he said!) untill you are master league. Because what most people dont realise is that there are alot of subtle things in macro play that are just not good for starting players to learn all at once. I'm pretty sure he said that that is just how RTS games evolve. He's told me the best way to improve is to pick a 2 base all in and macro perfectly for the first 10 minutes. The point is not to win, but to work on macro/micro with a build that forces you to hit a clear timing and then multitask to keep your attack going. | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
I feel like stargate is the only viable way to play, because otherwise you can be attacked from any angle and he will never lose anything, because he can just pick up and zoom away. I usually maintain like 3-5 phoenixes for map control, but unless you get lucky and catch him long way away from your base, he can still run in and drop because they kill them so slowly. Blink stalkers don't really work unless he's flying over ground, because he can still turn around and not lose anything. Cannons are nice, but he just brings more medivacs and I'm screwed if I'm out of position. My goto build has been stargate opening with reasonably fast expansion into robo+colo, but it seems to just not work against terrans who know what they are doing and don't just sit in their base. I'm not really using mothership core because I don't really see how it helps, maybe the recall ? The photon cannon is nice against ground pushes, but not drop harass. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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