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.The (HotS) Protoss Help Me Thread Beta - Page 8
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SupplyBlockedTV
Belgium313 Posts
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Loerts
Netherlands7 Posts
On January 28 2013 22:38 SupplyBlockedTV wrote: Is it just me or is hots ladder harder then wol? I only played a few games yet, but im master league in wol, but i even lose games in bronze league now (yes ok, i havnt played any starcraft in a while, but still!). Mainly PvP is a problem, i figured blink stalkers would be much powerful now with mothership core and not having to tech robo. but i somehow cant hit the right timing to be effective. If anyone can give me a quick overview of popular builds in the three matchups that would be great, altough i should be able to get diamond purely by mechanics..i just find myself failing pretty hard in hots .Got the same problem, platinum in WoL, struggling in silver league in the beta. Maybe the lower league WoL players are not playing the beta. Which resets the league system. Gold/plat are bronze/silver in hots, etc | ||
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SupplyBlockedTV
Belgium313 Posts
On January 28 2013 23:20 Loerts wrote: Got the same problem, platinum in WoL, struggling in silver league in the beta. Maybe the lower league WoL players are not playing the beta. Which resets the league system. Gold/plat are bronze/silver in hots, etc Yea, its probably something like that! Some of my opponents have pretty solid mechanics and build orders + expansion timings, its pretty ackward to lose in bronze xD. And i dont see many 100+ apm players in bronze in WoL like i do in hots. | ||
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Wayem
France455 Posts
The discussions here are pretty interesting as I am completely lost in HotS myself (diamond player). PvT In WoL I went 1gate FE 6 stalkers opening (nexus before any unit, etc.) so I could be aggressive a little, snipe a few marines and macro hard behind. In HotS, I cannot get aggressive because of widow mines that rape my poking stalkers. I guess the MsC is here to be greedier as stuff will be figured out but I fear this will become even turtlier. I don't succeed in oracles opening. It can fail pretty hard and as it works on energy either, you are open to a strong counter attack. And as you all know, a committing mid-game protoss just dies easily to a counter attack (I remember this Failhoon game a few weeks ago in PL...). => for now, turtle fest slightly greedier into same army composition as WoL except if it is mech. PvP I used to go 2gate FE SaSe style. Still works. But it is more coin flippy as ever. DTs without MsC detection or pure VR openings are hard to deal with I find. => not stable at all. End up in air deathball boring and coinflippy as hell. Actually prefered positionnal play with colossi. PvZ Dunno why everyone is whining on protoss being too hard to beat. In WoL I went immortal expand with warp prism harass. In HotS, the roach/hydra push is really hard to beat because it trades effciently. The main problem is that I die HARD to mutas with robo opening. So I thought of stargates opening... But then, the Z just makes a huge roach/hydra push on the 3d is letal and/or trades very well and puts you at a disadvantage... => clueless. Nothing works, but if everything plays like WoL, I win because end game is much easier and skytoss is very powerful. But against a good Z, I feel I have no chance at all even if I do a lot of damage with my harass. Has anyone felt the same ? Do you have any advice to put me on the right track ? Thanks ! | ||
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FinBenton
Finland870 Posts
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
@Wayem Facing a lot of the same issues. IMO, Stargate openings make the most sense atm. There is a lot of uncharted territory in regards to timings etc I feel. So, active scouting + aggressive play with stargate, zealot-immortal-voidray -> storm support based defense (against roach-hydra timing) should be able to defend a third together with photon overcharge. Against mass muta you just go phoenix with range +. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. Haven't been able to watch as many streams or played as much as I'd like =/ | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On January 29 2013 01:30 FinBenton wrote: How do u beat voidray carrier hightemplar (lot of storms) mothership? Mass hydras did nothing, corruptors did nothing. Maybe a stupid question, I didn't play a lot of hots but doesn't something to detroy ht's (SH, ultras, lings) followed back with mass hydra, matches that composition? Just asking.. | ||
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Pengu1n
United States552 Posts
On January 29 2013 00:38 Wayem wrote: Hello guys, The discussions here are pretty interesting as I am completely lost in HotS myself (diamond player). PvT In WoL I went 1gate FE 6 stalkers opening (nexus before any unit, etc.) so I could be aggressive a little, snipe a few marines and macro hard behind. In HotS, I cannot get aggressive because of widow mines that rape my poking stalkers. I guess the MsC is here to be greedier as stuff will be figured out but I fear this will become even turtlier. I don't succeed in oracles opening. It can fail pretty hard and as it works on energy either, you are open to a strong counter attack. And as you all know, a committing mid-game protoss just dies easily to a counter attack (I remember this Failhoon game a few weeks ago in PL...). => for now, turtle fest slightly greedier into same army composition as WoL except if it is mech. Has anyone felt the same ? Do you have any advice to put me on the right track ? Thanks ! I've been doing oracle openings every pvt for about 40 games now (after watching/copying WhiteRa pvt reps) and find it to be extremely effective. Terran has no early game options to defend and you have free reign until you force them to put up turrets. A single oracle can kill so many marines especially when the T sends them in a line to save his workers. As you harrass follow up with extra gateways and chargelots. Chargelots + oracles are enough to hold off an early push, then you can get storm. | ||
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Wayem
France455 Posts
On January 29 2013 02:59 Pengu1n wrote: I've been doing oracle openings every pvt for about 40 games now (after watching/copying WhiteRa pvt reps) and find it to be extremely effective. Terran has no early game options to defend and you have free reign until you force them to put up turrets. A single oracle can kill so many marines especially when the T sends them in a line to save his workers. As you harrass follow up with extra gateways and chargelots. Chargelots + oracles are enough to hold off an early push, then you can get storm. That's interesting, do you have a bit more specific build to recommend ? 1gate expand into stargate + 2 gates and later twilight + more gates woth 1forge upgrades ? How do you deal with cloak banshees (=do your really on oracles for detection) ? Do you get MsC with the 1st expand ? How many oracles do you make ? 1 won't do much, more becomes a serious commitment... | ||
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Brandhor
482 Posts
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Ponchmeister
United States73 Posts
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moofang
508 Posts
On January 29 2013 03:11 Wayem wrote: That's interesting, do you have a bit more specific build to recommend ? 1gate expand into stargate + 2 gates and later twilight + more gates woth 1forge upgrades ? How do you deal with cloak banshees (=do your really on oracles for detection) ? Do you get MsC with the 1st expand ? How many oracles do you make ? 1 won't do much, more becomes a serious commitment... I'm facing much the same problems as you are - PvZ hydra pushes and mass-muta builds, PvP not making _any_ sense at all, but I'm having a little more stability in PvT with oracle openings, also semi-copied from the few Whitera games I saw. The idea is to not 1gate-FE-stargate, but to 1gate-stargate-FE. I've been chronoing out 2 stalkers and an oracle or two, then macroing as hard as I can behind it. Most terran openings won't have enough marines to split between defending the front from stalker pokes and the back from oracle harass at the same time, esp since 1 oracle can take out up to 4 marines. My experience is against a decently played 1-rax FE, you can usually kill enough scvs to make up for your early investment in the stargate, and with two oracles at the back of their base you also have some limited counter-attack options if they move out prematurely. I'm still not very sure what to follow up with after the initial pressure, I'm currently experimenting with straight-to-colossus, which works well if the oracle harass went more effective than expected because you can do a strong timing with 2-3 colos that is hard for terran to hold if he's behind, but I think I should probably try out the chargelot archon transition that people seem to be recommending too. Against cloak banshee and similar 1-1-1 openings, 1gate stargate FE works particularly well in my experience. Even in wol fast stargate openers have been good against 1-1-1 openings because you have free vision for your stalkers to shoot up at the terran wall, and oracles are very strong when your opponent only has 1 rax. You'll basically force harder marine production, oftentimes also missile turrets, which will really delay whatever push/pressure they intended to do. As for detection, I make up to 4-5 oracles if I see techlab stargate, including the early harass ones. They're surprisingly good against marines after all. All in all I feel a lot more comfortable against 1-1-1 openings in HOTS than in WoL. | ||
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UrielSC
Canada143 Posts
On January 29 2013 04:02 Brandhor wrote: what's the best way to play against swarm hosts - hydras - roaches - corruptors/vipers? I always open stargate in pvz with usually 4 phoenixes, the zerg get hydras, I get colossi + chargelot but then he starts to siege my third/natural and I can't do anything This may not be of too much help, but the last few games I played against Zerg with this unit comp, I haven't had too much of a hard time. What I tend to do is attempt to spread the Zerg out as best I can ( ex. Warp Prisim, Dt's , Oracles(If still alive) ) I stop making Collosi at about 5 or so depending on the ratio Hydras:Roachs, Then my end game army consists of HT's, Stalkers, Collosi and Mother Ship core. The key is to try to be the aggressor in the final battle while keeping the Mothership core alive. I then use time warp and try to push the Zerg army back while focusing ( as best I can ) the burrowed swarm hosts. If you stay on par with upgrades you should be ok, as long as your storms land and you are able to focus down the key units you shouldn't have as hard a time. | ||
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Pengu1n
United States552 Posts
On January 29 2013 03:11 Wayem wrote: That's interesting, do you have a bit more specific build to recommend ? 1gate expand into stargate + 2 gates and later twilight + more gates woth 1forge upgrades ? How do you deal with cloak banshees (=do your really on oracles for detection) ? Do you get MsC with the 1st expand ? How many oracles do you make ? 1 won't do much, more becomes a serious commitment... what i do is 1 gate stargate after killing his scout then expand. The first oracle needs to be out asap and get to his mineral line then rally a second one to his expo mineral line. Expo is later than the terran but the oracle makes up for it with scv kills. I continually make oracles and harrass with them sometimes winning the game outright by catching his marines as they run back and forth. Terran will put turrets up then usually go for a marine/medivac attack. By then I have about 5 gates + charge upgrading and a MSC ready for defense. Nexus cannon+ chargelots + 3 to 5 oracles can hold him off then go for storm and a 3rd. i usually stop making oracles here since they are useless once the bio ball gets too big. then ill usually double forge and start chronoing upgrades. If you scout tech lab on starport with the first oracle just throw down a robo and make a phoenix. Im currently high diamond in hots, masters in wol and so far i have a 75% win ratio against T doing this every game. But if you want specific build order watch white ra vs fenix or white ra vs dragon showmatches He did this opening almost every game iirc. | ||
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Brandhor
482 Posts
On January 29 2013 16:29 UrielSC wrote: This may not be of too much help, but the last few games I played against Zerg with this unit comp, I haven't had too much of a hard time. What I tend to do is attempt to spread the Zerg out as best I can ( ex. Warp Prisim, Dt's , Oracles(If still alive) ) I stop making Collosi at about 5 or so depending on the ratio Hydras:Roachs, Then my end game army consists of HT's, Stalkers, Collosi and Mother Ship core. The key is to try to be the aggressor in the final battle while keeping the Mothership core alive. I then use time warp and try to push the Zerg army back while focusing ( as best I can ) the burrowed swarm hosts. If you stay on par with upgrades you should be ok, as long as your storms land and you are able to focus down the key units you shouldn't have as hard a time. the warp prism seems to be a good idea, I'll try that. About the oracles I used them a month ago and I killed pretty much every drone, but since then every zerg build at least 1 spore crawler which is enough to kill the oracles especially if there is a queen around too, that's why I prefer to go phoenix so I can kill some overlords/drone and be able to defend against mutalisk | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
 Any tips here please?http://drop.sc/300519 | ||
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Brandhor
482 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:09 vahgar.r24 wrote: Just played a PVT - I thought we both we on even level and I knew terran was going bio so I went collossus - but the fite was very one sided and lost Any tips here please?http://drop.sc/300519
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51481 Posts
Voids with the super charge automatic ability seems to destroy Hydras so fast it is untrue, you could have a heavy hydra/roach army and it is dead within second vs like 10-15 voids 3-4 tempest, it is crazy. Obviously i can't really comment on 1v1 side, but im sure vs Zerg air toss is the way to go? | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On January 28 2013 22:38 SupplyBlockedTV wrote: Is it just me or is hots ladder harder then wol? I only played a few games yet, but im master league in wol, but i even lose games in bronze league now (yes ok, i havnt played any starcraft in a while, but still!). Mainly PvP is a problem, i figured blink stalkers would be much powerful now with mothership core and not having to tech robo. but i somehow cant hit the right timing to be effective. If anyone can give me a quick overview of popular builds in the three matchups that would be great, altough i should be able to get diamond purely by mechanics..i just find myself failing pretty hard in hots .It's not necessarily harder, but since there are less people playing, the leagues are all jumbled. Like say if you were master in WoL but got matched against 5 wol GMs in placement, that would put you in bronze but you would still have master level skills. So when you queue, your mmr is no doubt bronze but you might run into real bronze league or real silver league which would make it seems like its harder than it actually is. | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:52 Brandhor wrote:
Thanks so much , appreciate the quality feedback  | ||
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