EPTYes, you can Research Blink before Twilight Council if you build 2 of them.
The (HotS) Protoss Help Me Thread Beta - Page 13
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Yes, you can Research Blink before Twilight Council if you build 2 of them. | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On February 13 2013 00:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think what happens then is you stop making oracles and make phoenixes instead. And if he doesn't make phoenixes you win the game. I think is how it works. But yeah, it's kinda like a cloak banshee TvT vs cloak banshee. There's no rhyme or reason to it, the one who does more damage and takes less wins. And it's smart to make a defensive viking once you figure out what's going on. In this case, the phoenixes are your vikings. It comes down to 2 things: 1. You should already have a stalker out and more on the way. 2. I always open phoenix instead of oracle. If he goes for the oracle I already have the blind counter and I am already 1 phoenix ahead in the inevitable phoenix vs. phoenix war. If I open oracle and he opens phoenix I am kinda screwed. If he opens voidray I am already 1 step/phoenix ahead. There really is no reason to go oracle first. I mean, sure, you can hope that your opponent is some bronze dude who forgot that oracles exists but that is not something I count on. The phoenix is not the vikings because the phoenix is your core unit when both players open stargate. A phoenix in PvP is way more useful than a viking is in TvT and you would end up building phoenix anyway. The only thing that screws the phoenix first over is a blink all-in. You just have to scout for that and chrono voidrays out instead. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 13 2013 13:53 Nezgar wrote: It comes down to 2 things: 1. You should already have a stalker out and more on the way. 2. I always open phoenix instead of oracle. If he goes for the oracle I already have the blind counter and I am already 1 phoenix ahead in the inevitable phoenix vs. phoenix war. If I open oracle and he opens phoenix I am kinda screwed. If he opens voidray I am already 1 step/phoenix ahead. There really is no reason to go oracle first. I mean, sure, you can hope that your opponent is some bronze dude who forgot that oracles exists but that is not something I count on. The phoenix is not the vikings because the phoenix is your core unit when both players open stargate. A phoenix in PvP is way more useful than a viking is in TvT and you would end up building phoenix anyway. The only thing that screws the phoenix first over is a blink all-in. You just have to scout for that and chrono voidrays out instead. Actually the phoenix is 100% identical to the viking in TvT. Vikings are the most important unit in TvT if both players open banshee. The one who has air control wins the ground war. Just like it is with phoenixes, the one who has more phoenixes has air control and will eventually be able to transition. If your opponent has no phoenixes and you have some, suddenly you can throw in void rays and the game will end. But I agree, there really is no reason to go Oracle first, hence I always open phoenix. Robo builds seem to be completely dead atm. Blink is thrown in to kill stargate builds. So the only time you go robo is if you mindgame your opponent into thinking you're going stargate so he goes blink. | ||
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
On February 13 2013 18:30 DarkLordOlli wrote: Actually the phoenix is 100% identical to the viking in TvT. Vikings are the most important unit in TvT if both players open banshee. The one who has air control wins the ground war. Just like it is with phoenixes, the one who has more phoenixes has air control and will eventually be able to transition. If your opponent has no phoenixes and you have some, suddenly you can throw in void rays and the game will end. But I agree, there really is no reason to go Oracle first, hence I always open phoenix. Robo builds seem to be completely dead atm. Blink is thrown in to kill stargate builds. So the only time you go robo is if you mindgame your opponent into thinking you're going stargate so he goes blink. I agree with phoenix first. And I agree that robo is dead. I never lose to robo openings anymore. That being said, you do not want to rush to stargate too fast (like one gate -> stargate) because you will die to even simple 5 stalkers push, or blink all-in. Even stargate after 3 gates is vulnerable to blink allin, you have to be spot on with your micro and not lose your MsC ever. I usually open 3 stalker -> stargate - > 2 more stalkers - > pressure with MsC -> 3rd gate or nexus. Kills greedy players, DT openings (make oracle asap in this case), and plays into stargate play which seems inevitable ATM. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On February 13 2013 22:43 ant-1 wrote: I agree with phoenix first. And I agree that robo is dead. I never lose to robo openings anymore. That being said, you do not want to rush to stargate too fast (like one gate -> stargate) because you will die to even simple 5 stalkers push, or blink all-in. Even stargate after 3 gates is vulnerable to blink allin, you have to be spot on with your micro and not lose your MsC ever. I usually open 3 stalker -> stargate - > 2 more stalkers - > pressure with MsC -> 3rd gate or nexus. Kills greedy players, DT openings (make oracle asap in this case), and plays into stargate play which seems inevitable ATM. 1gate stargate is pushing it, but completely doable if executed properly, now that pylon can't power highground anymore (Of course I'm expecting that you add on 2 more gateways right after the stargate). You will also have a huge advantage if your opponent is going stargate and plays it more safe. If you scout with your first 2 phonixes instead of waiting for 4-5, you should be able to spot if he's planning an allin or not (most dangerous being blink allin with mothership core), and if you switch to voids right away, you should be able to hold it with good micro. Then again, there is never one best way of playing this game. 3 stalker opening might be just as viable. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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cRsJoaoccf
Brazil14 Posts
My army composition was imm, archons and some zealots. replay: http://drop.sc/304454 ty :D | ||
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
On February 14 2013 04:05 cRsJoaoccf wrote: Hey guys, Im having some trouble with the combination of Thor, Hellbat and Ghost. I rly don't know whats the counter for this. I controlled the early game and he didn't cause damage in my economy, but i lost the game in one battle ): My army composition was imm, archons and some zealots. replay: http://drop.sc/304454 ty :D Well Immos and archons are not very good against ghosts ^^ You need air. Lotsa air. And split or positionning. | ||
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GaliX
Germany380 Posts
I feel speechless most of the time in PvZ when it gets to a longer game.. especially on Antiga Shipyard I am getting into real problems. The only chance is to catch the zerg player in a horrible position. Which seems impossible most of the time. My opening didn't do as much damage to him as I expected, but it was a ok I guess. I dont know what went really that wrong, that made him able to push me back even thought I took good fights. On top he was always ahead in super far ahead on supply. I did my best scouting for bases and killing them in time of course, I also expended as good as I could. But still in the end, he was just able to morph a trasilion Brutlords and made the ending look like a recent WoL PvZ. What could I have done better? Even thought it was a great PvZ I am still disappointed how it ended up. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-278531.jpg) I really have no Idea how I should have switched to airtoss or break out. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
Blink 2nd forge and the upgrades you got from it 2nd Robo Charge Get rid of all of that. Whenever you think you want to tech, get a stargate. That's your tech. Then gradually add in the void rays to your gateway units. They're really good against things like roaches and corruptors, so don't avoid them. | ||
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GaliX
Germany380 Posts
On February 17 2013 19:27 FlyingBeer wrote: Galix, your endgame unit composition should be primarily void rays with a few colossus and a few high templar, and however many gateway units you need to harass with or to defend zerg's harass. Eventually, tempests and carriers can be good too. The buildings you want for that composition are 3 stargates, 1 robo fac, 1 robo bay, 1 fleet beacon, 1 templar archives, and 2 cores. Any tech you get that isn't one of those buildings is just window dressing. So in your game, the DTs were fine, but then after that, look at all the extra tech you got that you didn't need, and didn't help you towards your endgame composition: Blink 2nd forge and the upgrades you got from it 2nd Robo Charge Get rid of all of that. Whenever you think you want to tech, get a stargate. That's your tech. Then gradually add in the void rays to your gateway units. They're really good against things like roaches and corruptors, so don't avoid them. maybe you are right, I stuck in WoL hard with my colossi and stalker. Even thought they are useless in hots lategame. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
 and IM just wondering....What the heck do I do vs mass swarm hosts? :S | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 17 2013 23:00 Dumbledore wrote: Hi, Im master in WoL and currently plat in HoTS and IM just wondering....What the heck do I do vs mass swarm hosts? :S Lol, I was about to ask the same question. I wanna know how to deal with a standard roach/ling into swarm hosts. Because every robo unit seems to just suck against them completely and HT/archons won't help against roaches so zerg can just switch around whenever they want. Assuming I do a super safe 4 gate robo expand | ||
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
On February 17 2013 23:00 Dumbledore wrote: Hi, Im master in WoL and currently plat in HoTS and IM just wondering....What the heck do I do vs mass swarm hosts? :S Mass colossi. 6 is enough (meaning, do not go overboard and stop at 6 if there are a LOT of SH). You want some sentries too to prevent the hosts from hitting you. You have to be very careful of the transition (well, PvZ HotS is like that all game long) to either corruptors or vipers. So either you roll over the Z who do not switch fast enough or you have te retreat and make some HTs. Having a bazillion cannons at your closest expo buys you time. Warp prism harass buys you more time and can destroy key tech. Frankly, mass SH is not the biggest problem in PvZ. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
It isn't by the time you have 6 colossi out, lol. Before that happens any decent zerg willlllllllll notice you're going mass colossi and just spam corruptors which will also make any air transitions hard as hell. | ||
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
On February 18 2013 00:24 DarkLordOlli wrote: >_> It isn't by the time you have 6 colossi out, lol. Before that happens any decent zerg willlllllllll notice you're going mass colossi and just spam corruptors which will also make any air transitions hard as hell. 6 was a max, dude. Of course with two colossi you'll attempt to break out of the contain. But if the Z reaaaalllyyy insists on mass SH, you'll need more than two. | ||
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