EPT[G] STParting's Soulful Immortal All-in (PvZ) - Page 3
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
Finally got this one down. Awsome build, thanks for sharing. | ||
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Dubsy
Canada186 Posts
Ie: where exactly do the buildings go, is it safe to nexus first (blind) vs 14pool, vs 10pool etc. is it ever good to go gate before pylon, etc. Mostly looking for the reasoning and positioning of high ground pylon. | ||
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nebula.
Sweden1431 Posts
On November 15 2012 02:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Please don't tell these people they can people this off. wat | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On November 15 2012 03:31 Dubsy wrote: Can someone explain to me the high ground pylon? I always feel a little robbed when I go low ground and am basically forced to 9 scout. Ie: where exactly do the buildings go, is it safe to nexus first (blind) vs 14pool, vs 10pool etc. is it ever good to go gate before pylon, etc. Mostly looking for the reasoning and positioning of high ground pylon. I think the high ground pylon is to minimize lost mining time and save the forge / 9 pylon against an early pool. However, when I do this build I just go for a standard 9 pylon --> scout and lowground forge after the Nexus goes down. I'm not comfortable playing as blind / greedy as PartinG does, especially on ladder. You can still move out on time with a 9 pylon, 9 scout, 17 Nexus opener. | ||
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HungrySC2
United States191 Posts
I also play terran so I have no ladder experience with either race against the build... just saying | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On November 15 2012 02:26 RiSkyToss wrote: You can't scout a nexus first before a hatch first. If they don't probe scout you can safely hatch first. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On November 15 2012 08:37 HungrySC2 wrote: I haven't watched enough lately to know, but it would seem like any semi-fast lair play (gasp... zerg actually would have to mine gas before 8 minutes, not you leenock) would just shut this build down before it got out of the gate especially on larger maps... I also play terran so I have no ladder experience with either race against the build... just saying Zerg start mining gas at 6 30 O_O | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On November 15 2012 08:37 HungrySC2 wrote: I haven't watched enough lately to know, but it would seem like any semi-fast lair play (gasp... zerg actually would have to mine gas before 8 minutes, not you leenock) would just shut this build down before it got out of the gate especially on larger maps... I also play terran so I have no ladder experience with either race against the build... just saying The only type of fast lair play that would shut this build down is 2-base tech - I think it goes without saying this build is designed to hit a Zerg who plays standard with gasless triple hatch. However, just in case, I added this as a disclaimer at the top of the build order skeleton. On November 15 2012 08:59 oOOoOphidian wrote: If they don't probe scout you can safely hatch first. Yes, this is absolutely true - many Zerg respond to a delayed / no Probe scout build by going hatch first, which is yet another reason I prefer to 9 scout when I do this build. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On November 15 2012 08:37 HungrySC2 wrote: I haven't watched enough lately to know, but it would seem like any semi-fast lair play (gasp... zerg actually would have to mine gas before 8 minutes, not you leenock) would just shut this build down before it got out of the gate especially on larger maps... I also play terran so I have no ladder experience with either race against the build... just saying You shouldn't comment on matchups that you don't understand  Zerg takes gas at 6:00 in standard ZvP, any other build from Zerg loses to a majority of other builds the Protoss have. I mean I kind of like Nestea's fast muta build, but the 4:30 gas hurts your eco so much that, while still possible, defending 4gate +1 or 7gate all ins hurts your economy to the point where you die pretty much. Like it's hard enough to defend a 7gate when you hit 70 supply at 8:00, let alone fast gas giving you 5-10 less. That's up to 20 less speedlings. Not a fun time. I don't want to be rude, but clearly you don't pay much attention to ZvP  On the discussion of this, what do you guys think is better to defend immo/sentry? 1) Cut drones around 60, mass roach/ling and engage early to kill sentries/waste FF, or baserace if things go south 2) Fast gas for fast lair, infestors/mutas 3) Use spine/ling to buy time for standard infestor timing (11:30ish) | ||
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Xaeldaren
Ireland588 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:07 Mavvie wrote: You shouldn't comment on matchups that you don't understand Zerg takes gas at 6:00 in standard ZvP, any other build from Zerg loses to a majority of other builds the Protoss have. I mean I kind of like Nestea's fast muta build, but the 4:30 gas hurts your eco so much that, while still possible, defending 4gate +1 or 7gate all ins hurts your economy to the point where you die pretty much. Like it's hard enough to defend a 7gate when you hit 70 supply at 8:00, let alone fast gas giving you 5-10 less. That's up to 20 less speedlings. Not a fun time. I don't want to be rude, but clearly you don't pay much attention to ZvP On the discussion of this, what do you guys think is better to defend immo/sentry? 1) Cut drones around 60, mass roach/ling and engage early to kill sentries/waste FF, or baserace if things go south 2) Fast gas for fast lair, infestors/mutas 3) Use spine/ling to buy time for standard infestor timing (11:30ish) Take this with a pinch of salt as I'm only mid-high Diamond player (but can still execute reasonably well 8:50 push out etc) but the times I have the most trouble with this build is when the Zerg recognises it (either by knowing the gas timings or scouting the ludicrously early robo) and cuts Drones to mass Roach/Ling, looking for a mid-map engagement. The worst times are when a Zerg intercepts you in a relatively open area with a composition heavily skewed towards Lings rather than Roaches. Also, bace trading is pretty much the worst thing you can do in my (possibly terrible/wrong) opinion, considering PartinG specifically walls off in two places to prevent this. You need to consider that from a Protoss perspective if you heavily commit to the base trade then I can simply warp in a Sentry or two at my ramp to infinitely delay you while my main army goes to town on your bases. | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:07 Mavvie wrote: You shouldn't comment on matchups that you don't understand Zerg takes gas at 6:00 in standard ZvP, any other build from Zerg loses to a majority of other builds the Protoss have. I mean I kind of like Nestea's fast muta build, but the 4:30 gas hurts your eco so much that, while still possible, defending 4gate +1 or 7gate all ins hurts your economy to the point where you die pretty much. Like it's hard enough to defend a 7gate when you hit 70 supply at 8:00, let alone fast gas giving you 5-10 less. That's up to 20 less speedlings. Not a fun time. I don't want to be rude, but clearly you don't pay much attention to ZvP On the discussion of this, what do you guys think is better to defend immo/sentry? 1) Cut drones around 60, mass roach/ling and engage early to kill sentries/waste FF, or baserace if things go south 2) Fast gas for fast lair, infestors/mutas 3) Use spine/ling to buy time for standard infestor timing (11:30ish) Option number 1 sounds like the best and most standard choice. Base trading is generally best used as a last resort, although a swift counter attack with 5-7 roaches and some lings when you see the Toss move out for the first time can be powerful. A good / refined player will be probably have a tight wall and be able to warp-in to avoid taking damage, but it's also the mark of a good Z to check for such holes in a defense. Worst case scenario is you gain nothing / force a few warpins on the wrong side of the wall | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On November 15 2012 17:07 AngryPenguin wrote: This build is already dead in pro-level play, just 2-3 weeks and at every level everyone can just laugh on your face. Darn | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On November 15 2012 19:44 Nyast wrote: While I agree this build is very strong as an all-in, I think not comitting to it, continying probe production a little bit, faking a push until the middle of the map and coming back to take a third.. might be even better. The only way for Zerg to survive this push is to not under-estimate it, and there's no early sign saying whether you're going to commit or not, so he HAS to stop droning and produce a lot of low-tech units. That's delaying his eco and tech significantly, and I think Protoss can hit the pre-BL timings with a 3 bases eco a lot more easily with that.. Zerg needs to recognize if its all in or not by watching at the nexus producing probes | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On November 15 2012 20:02 Insoleet wrote: Zerg needs to recognize if its all in or not by watching at the nexus producing probes How can he do that ? This build cuts probes after the first and a half immortal around 8'.. at this point the Protoss definitely has a stalker and a few sentries out already. Scouting with overlords isn't gonna happen anymore. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On November 15 2012 21:46 Nyast wrote: How can he do that ? This build cuts probes after the first and a half immortal around 8'.. at this point the Protoss definitely has a stalker and a few sentries out already. Scouting with overlords isn't gonna happen anymore. Expanding protoss will continue to produce probes on nexus after 8... Zerg needs to look at the nexus at 8:30 for example. Not hard with an overseer. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On November 16 2012 00:55 Insoleet wrote: Expanding protoss will continue to produce probes on nexus after 8... Zerg needs to look at the nexus at 8:30 for example. Not hard with an overseer. Hum right, but if the Protoss sees the overseer incoming, what prevents him from producing a probe at that time ? Zerg will have no way to know that toss had cut probes. And 8'30 is still quite late to react, toss moves out at 9', even if he sees no produced probe, is a minute enough to counter the push ? | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
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