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I actually find the immortal sentry all-in fairly easy to stop, but perhaps that's because my level of opponents aren't top tier.
I offrace zerg playing UMS or against low-master friends, and I find it that as long as my BO/macro is fairly crisp, and that I have ~10 roaches backed up by 3 dozen or so lings around the 9:00 mark, I can straight up kill the first poke of the protoss or at least waste a TON of FF energy which basically destroys the push.
What would a better protoss do if a lot of roach/ling is scouted around 9:00? Mass up additional zealots at home?
Anyway my tip for stopping this all-in is not be greedy on droning, have units ready for a 3-flank A-move into the protoss ball as soon as he moves out far enough away from the natural. The first flank facing the protoss ball, 1 flank to come in from the left/right side then swing 90 degrees attacking from behind, and the last flank coming in from either the left or right side.
I feel even though my drone saturation could be better having pumped out earlier units, I still end up ahead if the protoss decides to mass up more as I'm on 3 bases and can either pump out a round of drone to get ahead at any time, or grab all 6 gases for infestors.
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On November 22 2012 18:29 EngrishTeacher wrote:
I actually find the immortal sentry all-in fairly easy to stop, but perhaps that's because my level of opponents aren't top tier.
I offrace zerg playing UMS or against low-master friends, and I find it that as long as my BO/macro is fairly crisp, and that I have ~10 roaches backed up by 3 dozen or so lings around the 9:00 mark, I can straight up kill the first poke of the protoss or at least waste a TON of FF energy which basically destroys the push.
I think if the Protoss is sufficiently careful with his push, you won't be able to just kill his army as he moves across the map. Baiting forcefields / wasting Sentry energy will help you out a ton though, as this build doesn't have a ton of forcefields.
Parting on the secret of his Immortal Sentry all-in, from the interview [paraphrased]: "I do several things very differently from other players, including my shuttle micro [warp prism], my build order, and my army movements. That is all I am going to say for now, you can imagine the rest." Then he added, while laughing, "Ok, there is no big secret."
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This + Day[9] Newbie Tuesday Daily = Success
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For a long time, i didn't have ANY problem to deal with this type of all in.
I am High Master Zerg.
I did :
_ Usual 3 Hatch gazless
_ 5:50 : Gas x2
If I scout 1 gas at natural ( or 2 ), i go for an hydra build
_ T2 1st ( with 100 gas ) then Speedling
==> 3rd and 4th gas
_ Hydralisk Den when T2 finish ( then range upgrade )
_When 60 drones, Macro hatch, produce many overlords
_ After produce many overlord, begin Speedling productions ( around 9min )
With this lings, you can deny a " fast " 3rd, or forcing the protoss to use FF or stay a little bit longer at home. By only producing lings, you will get a LOT of gas.
When range upgrade is finish, produce as many hydra as you can.
If the opponent goes for a nice and early robo all in, the timing would be close, but close enough. You will have the hydras in time. Then just defend with your Hydra/Speedling army, try to multifront him and focus the prism for exemple. Most of the time i didn't need any micro, just A+click and i just CRUSHED every Immo/Sentry all in very very easely.
In case of the Protoss don't attack :
_ If he put 3rd base with Sentry/Immo army, just deny it with many many lings, then attack with your lings + hydras.
_ If he doesn't put any 3rd base, i have a smooth transition :
=> put down a Roach Warren + Spire + Evo Chamber
=> Stop producing Hydras after something like 20 hydras
=> 5th and 6th gas, rebuild drones and saturate the gas
=> Produce Roaches , then Corruptor
You can have a max-out army Roaches/Hydras/Corruptor +1/+1 around 13min. If he finally took 3rd, you can tr to destroy it ( doesnt work on any map ), if he stayed at home( on 2 bases), just force him to turtle.
Against Stargate build ( All-in or just 5-6 Pheonix pressure ), you are in a very good position.
If he take Fast 3rd on a map that you know you won't be able to deny with Hydras ( they are very slow ), you can just cancel your Hydralisk Den, and you will be in a position, where around 8-9min you didn't produce any gas-dependant unit like Roaches or anything else, wich means that you ate in a wonderful position to engage late game. Usually i put insta 4rd + Infestation pit + double evo. I would want to have 4 bases saturations ( with all gas ), rushing the Broodlords.
When the infestation pit is finish, i can produce many many Infest because i didnt use a lot of gas since the beginning of the game ( i can produce like 8-9 infest for the 12min mark ), and then i can have broodlord before 15:30min.
By rushing the broodlords, you just will weak in a little timing where you only ill have Speedling/Infest ( 12-13min ) or Speedling/Infest/Corruptor ( 14-15min ) but its pretty ok because you have a LOT of infestor at this moment.
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[B]If the opponent goes for a nice and early robo all in, the timing would be close, but close enough. You will have the hydras in time. Then just defend with your Hydra/Speedling army, try to multifront him and focus the prism for exemple. Most of the time i didn't need any micro, just A+click and i just CRUSHED every Immo/Sentry all in very very easely.
Could we get a replay? I don't believe pros would be having so much trouble if the solution was so simple. Are you playing against people with poor forcefields and no guardian shield?
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On November 23 2012 13:07 Hydro033 wrote:
Suppy blocked it. BOOM
This build still slaughters all non-superior wolves.
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On November 23 2012 16:17 RemarK wrote:This build still slaughters all non-superior wolves.
Can't help but feel that was directed at me?
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So I just got 12pool roach busted right at the timing when theres a single cannon and your robo is beginning immortal production. Since there is no scout in this build, how am I supposed to stop that? I have a replay, but it is on hots. Just ignore my chat, I was coming off a long day of losses when I tried it.
http://drop.sc/278251
Also, are there any games of parting specifically holding off cheeses like 10 pools etc that I can look at? While I haven't died to one yet, I don't feel like my opponents had strong enough micro.
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Italy12246 Posts
Either deviate from the build and scout (i recommend at least checking for a third at 4:20 ish) or accept your build is risky and will die to Zerg busts.
For ladder play, scouting is definitely the better choice.
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Why didn't anyone throw in some busts on parting in the bwc? I mean, they pretty much knew he was doing it.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On November 24 2012 19:44 Gono wrote:
Why didn't anyone throw in some busts on parting in the bwc? I mean, they pretty much knew he was doing it.
Probably because they thought that high level player like Parting will manage to defend the attack and they will fall back in economy and be in bad position. I can't see any other reason, because you are right, they absolutely knew what was coming  . But yea for sure it's interesting how nobody didn't do some crazy shit before the push knowing how strong the all in is, but i don't understand this game at all so i'm just talking trash. ^_^
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On November 22 2012 18:29 EngrishTeacher wrote:
I actually find the immortal sentry all-in fairly easy to stop, but perhaps that's because my level of opponents aren't top tier.
I offrace zerg playing UMS or against low-master friends, and I find it that as long as my BO/macro is fairly crisp, and that I have ~10 roaches backed up by 3 dozen or so lings around the 9:00 mark, I can straight up kill the first poke of the protoss or at least waste a TON of FF energy which basically destroys the push.
What would a better protoss do if a lot of roach/ling is scouted around 9:00? Mass up additional zealots at home?
Anyway my tip for stopping this all-in is not be greedy on droning, have units ready for a 3-flank A-move into the protoss ball as soon as he moves out far enough away from the natural. The first flank facing the protoss ball, 1 flank to come in from the left/right side then swing 90 degrees attacking from behind, and the last flank coming in from either the left or right side.
I feel even though my drone saturation could be better having pumped out earlier units, I still end up ahead if the protoss decides to mass up more as I'm on 3 bases and can either pump out a round of drone to get ahead at any time, or grab all 6 gases for infestors.
I mean, this build is working only okay for top-tier players who aren't parting, anyways. You see people lose with it all the time. If scouted, good macro and roach/ling can really kill you.
The exception is if you have legitimately perfect execution - and even top-tier, non-Parting pros don't have perfect execution. Any screw-ups, and you lose the game.
-Cross
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On November 24 2012 18:45 Gono wrote:So I just got 12pool roach busted right at the timing when theres a single cannon and your robo is beginning immortal production. Since there is no scout in this build, how am I supposed to stop that? I have a replay, but it is on hots. Just ignore my chat, I was coming off a long day of losses when I tried it. http://drop.sc/278251Also, are there any games of parting specifically holding off cheeses like 10 pools etc that I can look at? While I haven't died to one yet, I don't feel like my opponents had strong enough micro.
This build isn't supposed to be blindly safe against everything - even PartinG, who goes blind nexus first, scouts to make sure the Zerg is taking a 3rd base. As I said, part of why PartinG plays so greedy is because he is metagaming Code S level players and the top Korean playstyles. When I do this build, I 9 scout with a lowground pylon always.
The OP already covers this too, but maybe people don't read the whole guide :/
"note: on ladder, I would be scared of not scouting for so long versus a Zerg player, so if you aren't comfortable with it, feel free to 9 scout or build a blind 13 Forge and scout with the probe that builds the Forge - the build will still work!"
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This build just destroyed JaeDong in ProLeague. That protoss didn't execute it that fast tho.
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JD should have held but he sent his entire army to kill a pylon and got caught in bad position. 8 lings swinging around would have been enough
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United States248 Posts
JD played like shit. Only 65 drones by 8 minutes is like midmaster NA level of macro. He'll get better i'm sure but he straight up deserved to lose to that.
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On December 08 2012 16:13 Jowj wrote:
JD played like shit. Only 65 drones by 8 minutes is like midmaster NA level of macro. He'll get better i'm sure but he straight up deserved to lose to that.
That is because you cut drones at 60 to hold sentry immortal all in. 66 drones is the MAX you can have and thats already very greedy. Sure Jaedong didn't do very well, but not having enough drones wasn't the reason he lost, he just engaged like a foreigner. Dont criticize good players if you are bad and are mid master lol.
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EPT
