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On February 05 2013 12:23 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 03:46 looken wrote:hey guys, how do i engage a skyterran? my infestors and corruptors just get blown to pieces against hunter seeker and i lack the skill to split my stuff in more than 3 groups (which still means that half of my "air force" gets blown up). guess the easiest way to "counter" it would be to not let T get that skydeathball, but how do i do that? it is so insanely easy to get 3 bases on the new maps. all T needs is a couple of siegetanks. and i seem to be unable to beat T once he IS on three bases. i can prevent that he takes a 4th but thats about it...  they shouldnt be able to get a dangerous sky-terran ball out on 3 bases jsut deny there 4th and win
thx alot for the feedback so far guys.
can you be a bit more specific with this? what should my unit composition look like, if T goes for siege tank with bio or siege tank with thor and just turtles? i tried to rush to ultras, but by the time they come out in sufficient numbers, T can have a huge defensive set up. so i figured i have to pressure him before that. but with what? roach hydra just seems to die against siege tanks (in defensive positions). if i wait for vipers its the same problem as with ultras, it takes quite a while to get them. muta doesnt do much better. if he scouts them and just builds a shit load of turrets they do nothing except keep him in his base, which is what he wants to do anyway.
so again, what should be my unitcomposition to prevent T from getting that 4th and how do i push into his base even if i can prevent him from taking that 4th?
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On February 05 2013 15:35 looken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 12:23 Forikorder wrote:On February 05 2013 03:46 looken wrote:hey guys, how do i engage a skyterran? my infestors and corruptors just get blown to pieces against hunter seeker and i lack the skill to split my stuff in more than 3 groups (which still means that half of my "air force" gets blown up). guess the easiest way to "counter" it would be to not let T get that skydeathball, but how do i do that? it is so insanely easy to get 3 bases on the new maps. all T needs is a couple of siegetanks. and i seem to be unable to beat T once he IS on three bases. i can prevent that he takes a 4th but thats about it... they shouldnt be able to get a dangerous sky-terran ball out on 3 bases jsut deny there 4th and win thx alot for the feedback so far guys. can you be a bit more specific with this? what should my unit composition look like, if T goes for siege tank with bio or siege tank with thor and just turtles? i tried to rush to ultras, but by the time they come out in sufficient numbers, T can have a huge defensive set up. so i figured i have to pressure him before that. but with what? roach hydra just seems to die against siege tanks (in defensive positions). if i wait for vipers its the same problem as with ultras, it takes quite a while to get them. muta doesnt do much better. if he scouts them and just builds a shit load of turrets they do nothing except keep him in his base, which is what he wants to do anyway. so again, what should be my unitcomposition to prevent T from getting that 4th and how do i push into his base even if i can prevent him from taking that 4th?
vipers actually come out surprisingly fast, if you compare it to infesters you could say they come out only a minute or so later and you overall need less vipers then infesters, you only need about 6-8 vipers and with consume you can have vipers ready to go around the same time as infesters would be at full energy
the best way ive found to engage mech is roach/hydra/viper, try to split as much as possible and engage from as many fronts your main goal is to blinding cloud the siege tanks to prevent them from doing damage your real goal is to trade as much as possible while keeping your vipers alive, while your being cost effecient with your roach/hydra you can take your pick of T3 choices and take more bases making it impossible for them to pull off an effective sky-toss
you cant REALLY push into his base at first, but he has to move out to take his 4th so as long as you trade enough eventually hell jsut bleed dry enough that you can go and kill him
note that with this strat he may take his 4th but as long as you keep trading effeciently with him he cant transition out of mech so easily
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so i should not try to engage into his defensive set up but wait untill he moves out to take his 4th?
how do i do this on a map like akilon wastes or korhal city? i dont know, maybe im just to bad at this game, but it feels frustrating hard to deal with a defensive set up while all my opponent does is "hide" in his bases an mass up units =/
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I'm curious about everyone's uses of Swarm Hosts. I've had very limited success with them so far (only against Terran bio/tank comps T_T). I've figured out how to properly micro them at least but I'm not yet capable of doing it well. I need to know some other situations where they are actually good.
Secondly, large clumps of Widow Mines in mech armies seem ridiculously hard to deal with, how do you do it?
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On February 04 2013 20:10 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 20:08 OptimusYale wrote:
So is there any way to beat muta without going muta?
I feel like infestors don't quite cut it as much anymore, and Hydras are pretty lulz worthy against them due to speed. I'd love to go Roach Hydra Swarm host, but it's just insanely weak if the other player goes muta
Out of curiosity when you don't go mutas what are they doing to kill you? I haven't really faced non mutas for a long time so I almost don't know except if they go hydra muta/ling/bane if they go infestors muta/ling/bane aggression?
I usually win the game if there are no muta's and I survive the early game. If I lose it's either to muta play, or sometimes I get rolled by mass roach. Depends when they attack really. Played a ZvZ where I got my spire down later and still won after a 30 minute muta war. TBH muta wars are dull as shit.
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On February 05 2013 16:22 looken wrote:
so i should not try to engage into his defensive set up but wait untill he moves out to take his 4th?
how do i do this on a map like akilon wastes or korhal city? i dont know, maybe im just to bad at this game, but it feels frustrating hard to deal with a defensive set up while all my opponent does is "hide" in his bases an mass up units =/
you cant engage him straight up if hes in a good defensive positon around most thirds, there are some thirds that are open enough that you can more easily engage into but one like daybreak is jsut throwing units away
the best way to know when you can engage and when you cant is practice really just look at where his army is, see how much open space there is and take it from there
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ok guys, new problem, or same problem but different 
how do i survive the midgame push from T and P? i am at a loss here. it seems that on most maps 3 bases is a given. T and P turtle to their, lets call it "midgame deathball" and just a-move into me. if i try to tech to ultras or broods, i die because my opponent hits to fast. if i try to defend with roaches i die because... well yeah, it's roaches. infestors dont do shit anymore, or i just use them wrong, w/e. hydras dont seem to be working either.
the "midgame deathball" i'm talking about from T is tank+bio, from protoss it's the usual colo+gateway. my strat is get 3 bases, saturate them, try to figure out, what my opponent is doing, build units and... well die.
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On February 05 2013 21:56 OptimusYale wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 20:10 blade55555 wrote:On February 04 2013 20:08 OptimusYale wrote:
So is there any way to beat muta without going muta?
I feel like infestors don't quite cut it as much anymore, and Hydras are pretty lulz worthy against them due to speed. I'd love to go Roach Hydra Swarm host, but it's just insanely weak if the other player goes muta
Out of curiosity when you don't go mutas what are they doing to kill you? I haven't really faced non mutas for a long time so I almost don't know except if they go hydra muta/ling/bane if they go infestors muta/ling/bane aggression? I usually win the game if there are no muta's and I survive the early game. If I lose it's either to muta play, or sometimes I get rolled by mass roach. Depends when they attack really. Played a ZvZ where I got my spire down later and still won after a 30 minute muta war. TBH muta wars are dull as shit.
I love muta wars a lot more fun and entertaining then mass infestor play imo. But my question was if you don't go mutalisks or if your opponent does are you just killing him with ling/bane/muta. I haven't really done a non muta build or faced a non muta build in awhile and I end up winning with just muta/ling/bane if they don't go muta as they always go hydra first.
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On February 06 2013 20:04 looken wrote:ok guys, new problem, or same problem but different how do i survive the midgame push from T and P? i am at a loss here. it seems that on most maps 3 bases is a given. T and P turtle to their, lets call it "midgame deathball" and just a-move into me. if i try to tech to ultras or broods, i die because my opponent hits to fast. if i try to defend with roaches i die because... well yeah, it's roaches. infestors dont do shit anymore, or i just use them wrong, w/e. hydras dont seem to be working either. the "midgame deathball" i'm talking about from T is tank+bio, from protoss it's the usual colo+gateway. my strat is get 3 bases, saturate them, try to figure out, what my opponent is doing, build units and... well die.
tank bio is the exact same. ling/bane infester
agaisnt colo gateway you can use a WoL strat or roach/hydra/viper and abduct the collo and blinding cloud the stalkers
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On February 05 2013 01:50 Mortal wrote:
Not really sure how to tackle this question so I'll just pose it generally then break it down if needed. To anyone who watched CatZ, or has experimented with the build following, what are the benefits/reasonings behind going 4 hatch as opposed to the normal 3?
The only benefit by that is that your opponent most likely doesnt know how to react accordingly to it, and for that he gets far behind. However, correct reactions to that build do not lead in zerg being ahead. Protoss needs to skip the forge, go gateway first into faster zealot stalker pressure and 7min third. I did some testing with a friend. It is not really worth to do that besides you wanna do some "fun strats" or you wanna hope that your opponent doesnt know exactly what he needs to do.
14 pool 16 hatch 4.15 third is still the best way to approach that matchup
On February 04 2013 20:08 OptimusYale wrote:
So is there any way to beat muta without going muta?
I feel like infestors don't quite cut it as much anymore, and Hydras are pretty lulz worthy against them due to speed. I'd love to go Roach Hydra Swarm host, but it's just insanely weak if the other player goes muta
I really don't think so. Ive tried it multiple times to beat muta without going muta and i failed with it when i didnt get a lucky fungal off my opponents muta flock or something else like that. The only time were i got beaten quite significantly while going muta myself against a no-muta opponent was in a game vs TLO. Instead for going to quick hydras (which is very vurneable to banes), he decided to go for Queen, Infestor, Roach, Bane while boosting his upgrades out. Hydras just were added in the very end once he had a high amount of infestors as well as very good upgrades. Still, i think, if i would be nearly as good as him, i dont know if he still would had won. Muta seems the best option to play zvz atm. I doubt the spore buff will change a lot, because its still ultra hard to hit fungals when you get engaged on creep from multiple angles, and nowadays if you dont kill a mutaball completly, they just regenerate after a bit. By nerfing fungal even more i feel like muta will even do better in zvz as they do now. Its really not about harassment damage but more about getting complete map dominance as well as attacking with a very deadly fast force from all angles, so i think the spore buff wont change a lot because it wont change anything in that scenario. Furthermore, in engagements, its even more important to kill the banes before they rape your anti-air.
I did face a "muta-kill" build one time too. The guy got 2 gases up relatively early, and hittet with roach ling bane in addition to 6-7 queens for transfuses before mutas were out. I did scout it in time and added like 6 spines as well as tons of lings and banes, still i was not even close to hold it. However, i think, if i would had gone for roaches with spines as a reaction i could have hold. I think this build with give players a lot of easy wins on ladder at the current metagame.
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Hey guys, I'm looking to switch back to Zerg for HotS. My one question is, do they still revolve around broodlord infestor corrupter? I really am tired of the turtlefest to get those units, and would like to go back to zerg if that strategy isn't dominant in HotS.
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On February 08 2013 07:27 Kezzer wrote:
Hey guys, I'm looking to switch back to Zerg for HotS. My one question is, do they still revolve around broodlord infestor corrupter? I really am tired of the turtlefest to get those units, and would like to go back to zerg if that strategy isn't dominant in HotS.
no bl/corr/infestor is garbage in zvp now. Ultras are a great choice zvp, zvt it's viable but terran can counter it with ravens and I like ultras better anyway.
So in short no turtling to bl/corr/infestor isn't a smart idea anymore in hots ^_^
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okay guys i need serious help. i am completely lost right now in pretty much each MU.
- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more.
-ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win.
-ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess?
any help will be much appreciated, especially in ZvT i cant even imagine how to beat that comp in theory since zerg just has no units to attack protected widow mines expect BLs which come so late i am dead already.
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- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more.
your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible
-ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win.
you cant is unkillable
-ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess?
mutas ruke ZvZ
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On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible Show nested quote +-ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable Show nested quote +-ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ
thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected.
just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work.
and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines.
i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is able to hit air. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol.
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On February 08 2013 08:14 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible -ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable -ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected. just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work. and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines. i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is good vs stargate. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol.
just face tank the mine with a roach, yopur trying to kill all the mines without taking damage thats unfeasable assuming they make alot of them
also since you said Widow Mine, hellbat bio tank id assumed it was closer to mech then bio if its bio then ling/infester play defensively and use the long range of fungal at its best potential while teching to ultras/broodlords
or you could try and use ling/bane/muta and swoop in killa mine and swoop out could work but very risky
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On February 08 2013 08:18 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:14 Decendos wrote:On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible -ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable -ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected. just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work. and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines. i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is good vs stargate. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol. just face tank the mine with a roach, yopur trying to kill all the mines without taking damage thats unfeasable assuming they make alot of them also since you said Widow Mine, hellbat bio tank id assumed it was closer to mech then bio if its bio then ling/infester play defensively and use the long range of fungal at its best potential while teching to ultras/broodlords or you could try and use ling/bane/muta and swoop in killa mine and swoop out could work but very risky
its not "the mine" it is 8-10 so your army is gone if you just a-move into ^^ which is fine designwise, there just needs to be a counter and i think you need to send in speedovis. while this is very expensive in midgame it is still better than losing huge party of your army.
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On February 08 2013 08:47 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:18 Forikorder wrote:On February 08 2013 08:14 Decendos wrote:On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible -ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable -ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected. just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work. and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines. i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is good vs stargate. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol. just face tank the mine with a roach, yopur trying to kill all the mines without taking damage thats unfeasable assuming they make alot of them also since you said Widow Mine, hellbat bio tank id assumed it was closer to mech then bio if its bio then ling/infester play defensively and use the long range of fungal at its best potential while teching to ultras/broodlords or you could try and use ling/bane/muta and swoop in killa mine and swoop out could work but very risky its not "the mine" it is 8-10 so your army is gone if you just a-move into ^^ which is fine designwise, there just needs to be a counter and i think you need to send in speedovis. while this is very expensive in midgame it is still better than losing huge party of your army.
maybe dont Amove...?
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On February 08 2013 08:47 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:18 Forikorder wrote:On February 08 2013 08:14 Decendos wrote:On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible -ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable -ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected. just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work. and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines. i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is good vs stargate. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol. just face tank the mine with a roach, yopur trying to kill all the mines without taking damage thats unfeasable assuming they make alot of them also since you said Widow Mine, hellbat bio tank id assumed it was closer to mech then bio if its bio then ling/infester play defensively and use the long range of fungal at its best potential while teching to ultras/broodlords or you could try and use ling/bane/muta and swoop in killa mine and swoop out could work but very risky its not "the mine" it is 8-10 so your army is gone if you just a-move into ^^ which is fine designwise, there just needs to be a counter and i think you need to send in speedovis. while this is very expensive in midgame it is still better than losing huge party of your army.
wow awesome idea, did not think of that, if they have more than 2-3 WMS just have like 6 speed OLs lead your army,pretty smart. whats giving me a ton of trouble are these marine/ heavy tank with a few maurauders sprinklled in with a hellbat wall in front, whats the way to go against this?
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On February 08 2013 10:43 PviLLe3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:47 Decendos wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 Forikorder wrote:On February 08 2013 08:14 Decendos wrote:On February 08 2013 07:43 Forikorder wrote:- ZvT: how do you play against WM + MMM + hellbat with maybe 3-4 tanks? i found no way to be even closely cost efficient. basically zerg has no units (other than BL lol) to attack WM if it is protected. you cant send in single lings, hydras are the worst unit ever, SH are the 2nd worst unit ever, mutas are awesome but mines hit air + hellbats are sick vs ling bling that you have with your mutas, infestor...well...maybe but will get nerfed even more. your analysis of the effectiveness of Hydras is wrong, Hydras are awesome, go raoch/hydra/vi[er and blind the tanks and MMM as much as possible while being careful to clear the mines as cost effectively as possible -ZvP: yeah just one word: skytoss + HT. absolutely no idea how to beat it. i had games where i was 8 vs 3 or 4 base and lost the game even with 10k spores since he had 8 tempest or so and killed them without taking damage. the best comp i tried so far is 6 ultras, 15 queen, 15 infestors and 30 corruptors (with spore cancel so 230/200 supply). that works halfway decent depending on his comp but still not cost efficient enough to win. you cant is unkillable -ZvZ: well this is more of a thing getting bored by muta vs muta and not a "problem" like in the other 2 MU. i tried different things but hydras and SH just suck while infestor got also nerfed but might work. will try something like ling queen infestor with lot of upgrades...otherwise its mutas again i guess? mutas ruke ZvZ thanks for your input but roach hydra viper is only good vs mech. i have problems with bio + hellbats + mines. there arent any or only few tanks and cloud is very bad vs bio since bio is so fast it just moves out of it while mines arent affected. just did some testing. something like roach hydra speedbane infestor in midgame might work. and no dude...hydras are so retardedly bad. especially since you HAVE TO keep them in front of your army since they are the only f.ucking unit to attack mines. so they get killed insanely fast and there you are with nothing to hit his mines. i am so mad on blizzard. "hydras are played a lot"....well guess what its because you have to play it since nothing else attacks mines and you have to play it vs stargate since nothing else is good vs stargate. i am so annoyed by zerg in hots. nothing blizz promised like fixing T2 happened...its so sad to see zerg being at least as messed up as in wol. just face tank the mine with a roach, yopur trying to kill all the mines without taking damage thats unfeasable assuming they make alot of them also since you said Widow Mine, hellbat bio tank id assumed it was closer to mech then bio if its bio then ling/infester play defensively and use the long range of fungal at its best potential while teching to ultras/broodlords or you could try and use ling/bane/muta and swoop in killa mine and swoop out could work but very risky its not "the mine" it is 8-10 so your army is gone if you just a-move into ^^ which is fine designwise, there just needs to be a counter and i think you need to send in speedovis. while this is very expensive in midgame it is still better than losing huge party of your army. wow awesome idea, did not think of that, if they have more than 2-3 WMS just have like 6 speed OLs lead your army,pretty smart. whats giving me a ton of trouble are these marine/ heavy tank with a few maurauders sprinklled in with a hellbat wall in front, whats the way to go against this?
roach/hydra/viper
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EPT
