EPT[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Wraithan
United States18 Posts
| ||
|
BerthaG
France74 Posts
Any project about it, Sorry did not read all the comments. Could you do something for us JAck? | ||
|
JJThompson
Poland7 Posts
On December 13 2012 12:11 Wraithan wrote:I was thinking of doing TheStaircase a couple nights a week and doing full practice the rest of the week. Interested in thought On December 13 2012 13:11 Faldinerous wrote: I don't see how using the staircase every once in a while could hurt your game. It's not the point. You can use The Staircase as a training tool only but then you don't build your proper mentality and honestly it's more fun to do it on ladder than vs AI or against friends. There is one more thing - against a real opponent you can learn faster proper unit composition and you can see what he can throw against you. Of course it will not hurt you but then you will not bud your skill enough and probably say: "this method doesn't work well", which is not true. | ||
|
Coldlogic
United States116 Posts
On December 14 2012 01:04 JJThompson wrote: It's not the point. You can use The Staircase as a training tool only but then you don't build your proper mentality and honestly it's more fun to do it on ladder than vs AI or against friends. There is one more thing - against a real opponent you can learn faster proper unit composition and you can see what he can throw against you. Of course it will not hurt you but then you will not bud your skill enough and probably say: "this method doesn't work well", which is not true. The custom map isn't suppose to be a replacement for ladder. It is just there to enforce certain conditions that promote decent play. I agree it doesn't provide the same mentality as a ladder match, and for good reason, it's not suppose to. The custom map is there to promote things you would look past in a ladder match. For example: you miss a Queen inject by 10 seconds. This isn't game breaking by any means. Would you quit a ladder match as soon as this happened? More than likely not, I know I wouldn't. You would probably think something along the lines of "oh, crap, I will focus more on that next game". If this happened in the custom map, you potentially will end up with your base destroyed and restarting the map (this has happened to me several times with my creep spreading queens). Now, you will have the same thought, however, there are now consequences for the action, and missing that inject is potentially VERY destructive. I now constantly think about my creep spreading Queens and am constantly keeping their energy as low as possible. This is the mentality that TheStaircase is here to provoke. TheStaircase promotes efficient play. If you just start with all the units available to you (essentially the last step of TheStaircase), it is very difficult to do EVERYTHING you need to do. Any tutorial you watch or read (Day9, FilterSC, SC2Schools) will consistently say "DO NOT FOCUS ON EVERYTHING. Focus on one thing at a time until that is perfect, then focus on another thing". Yes, versus a ladder opponent, the game will be very different. You will learn proper unit composition faster. But knowing proper unit composition doesn't mean you can utilize that composition. TheStaircase builds you up to be able to use any unit composition at any time. A thought that you do bring to mind would be a free play option. It is very easy to message a ladder opponent at the end of a game and say "hey, wanna practice some?" Then play on the custom map, and if they don't want to follow TheStaircase, put them on the free play step, and boom, you now have a ladder match on the custom map. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Freestyle Freestyle without air (excluding overlord) Freestyle without cloaked units (including burrow) Freestyle without air or cloaked units I don't know how hard it would be, but I've used this training method (Mechanics vs Strategy) and taking away the free win option from the freestyle player makes the game more interesting and even pushes the freestyle player to be a little more creative and think of different options. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
| ||
|
mtszyk
21 Posts
Man I am having a ton of fun. I can't get past step 1, because my SQ isn't quite high enough. I bank too many resources without having expensive units to spend them on. I've had a number of isolated "successes", and two two streaks, but I have yet to get the third in a row. It's usually that I get caught up in the game I'm in, so I'm still trying to disassociate the play from the specific game so I can be more consistent. Additionally, in response to your inquiry on skill to power ratio of your list, and commenting only on Zerg because my ability with the other races is laughable (not that the Zerg is much better :D): I think that Roaches and Banelings should switch spaces. At low skill, an opponent won't really be splitting, and even if they do banelines can still be very devastating with a simple A-Move. Roaches are very powerful as well for the low skill, but they can never be simply devestating if your opponent positions improperly or something. I like that the overseer has its own tier after roaches and banelings, because it does say "Start scouting better! Use changelings!" While also giving the learner more time with Ling/Bling/Roach, which is plenty for the stuff leagues. I think swarm hosts, brood lords, vipers, and infestors are all easier to use than Mutas, considerably... for players lower than masters. No idea above that. Mutas require a GREAT deal of multitasking to use effectively, which is why I put them so high. At the same time, I'm pretty convinced that the order of the units at the highest steps don't actually matter because the player should already have learned the core of the game, and now they're learning the strategy of the units, as you state. So the order of those steps simply doesn't quite matter . However I do think that you could add a few extra "empty" steps after a specific units that either has a lot of strategies associated with it, for example Viper or Infestor (Seige tank, Sentry)... and those steps could effectively be optional. Just so that the player gets enough games in to really use those units and get fully comfortable with them. | ||
|
immoralist
Germany9 Posts
| ||
|
Qube
Canada46 Posts
On December 17 2012 23:26 immoralist wrote: I also decided to try this out (gold zerg) and I started blogging about it. If anyone is interested: http://sc2immoralist.tumblr.com/tagged/TheStaircase (I would have loved to find something similar before starting with TheStaircase myself) Heh, I feel you! I did some criticizing in this thread concerning this method of learning. Now that I have your blog, I might be convinced that it is a good way to learn. Like I said in earlier posts, there is some things missing in the tool to feel very comfortable using it. (I speak for myself). I plan on trying to learn Protoss pretty soon since I'm getting bored with Terran at the moment and guess what, I'll use TheStaircase to help me. I won't make a blog myself tho, I might just post in here my comments about how it helped, or didn't helped. So, during the Holidays, since I'm not working during these times, I might lots of spare time to try TheStaircase using Protoss and be able to point out pros and cons. Please note that I *NEVER* used Protoss. I don't even know the hotkey to build a Probe from the Nexus, haha! | ||
|
shenlong
219 Posts
| ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
| ||
|
vrumFondel
Russian Federation42 Posts
| ||
|
Qube
Canada46 Posts
On December 18 2012 02:09 JaKaTaK wrote: @Cube, if you're starting that fresh, you may want to play with TheCore I'll have a look for sure. | ||
|
byce
United States98 Posts
I've regained interest in SC2 after not playing for ~1.5 years and this is a great way to get familiar with the pace of the game again and see the current timings and metagame. Most importantly, it gives you a reason to just get in there and play a bunch of ladder games without obsessing over what build you're going to use for certain matchups, etc. I like it! | ||
|
esToDo
United States14 Posts
On December 15 2012 05:32 mtszyk wrote: Additionally, in response to your inquiry on skill to power ratio of your list, and commenting only on Zerg because my ability with the other races is laughable (not that the Zerg is much better :D): I think that Roaches and Banelings should switch spaces. At low skill, an opponent won't really be splitting, and even if they do banelines can still be very devastating with a simple A-Move. Roaches are very powerful as well for the low skill, but they can never be simply devestating if your opponent positions improperly or something. Jak, i'm curious to know what your thoughts are on this idea. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I think that makes a lot of sense. Definitely considering making that swap. | ||
|
Toph Nasty
United States15 Posts
| ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
What is darkstar?? | ||
|
immoralist
Germany9 Posts
| ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
| ||
| ||
