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On December 06 2012 06:37 Coldlogic wrote:
New build.
Generate more creep for Zerg players at beginning of game. Should effectively be full creep size from Hatchery.
Added destructible recreation.
Added map revealers for duration of menu display. This allows for reset of mini map when you start a new game.
You are unstoppable right now.
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Venezuela15 Posts
Chill out people, we just want to learn how to be a better player that's all, usually we like to see how others do things so we can do as they do specially when we are in front of something new, say like the first time you learn how to swim or how to drive a car, you might try the first time with nobody to show you how not to sink into the water and you're going to be hanging to the edge of the pool for a long time till you get how to do it right, but if somebody shows you and explains you step by step how to swim properly you'll be like Nemo in no time, so i personally think that watching how you perform on The Staircase and explain everything from there i belive that's going to cover all there is to know about it, the psycollogy behind it, i don't know just show us how would you play it so we can do the same and learn how to be better at SC2 with The Staircase 
PS
Qube is right about the SQ, i got my account there now that i saw it on the vids but i don't know anything about it, can you explain how that works a little bit more please specially how much SQ points do i need to be in a certain league i belive that's the one thing i would ask about the SQ
Keep up the good work
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Venezuela15 Posts
On December 06 2012 06:37 Coldlogic wrote:
New build.
Generate more creep for Zerg players at beginning of game. Should effectively be full creep size from Hatchery.
Added destructible recreation.
Added map revealers for duration of menu display. This allows for reset of mini map when you start a new game.
Thanks for the Update on the minimap
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Venezuela15 Posts
Oh i almost forgot, on the Terran lvl 11 i guess the tooltip says "HellBat" and the Hellbat is just a Campaing unit (or a BroodWar unit), i don't know what's the new unit there, can u please fix that ?
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Venezuela15 Posts
On December 06 2012 07:11 Danagor wrote:Oh i almost forgot, on the Terran lvl 11 i guess the tooltip says "HellBat" and the Hellbat is just a Campaing unit (or a BroodWar unit), i don't know what's the new unit there, can u please fix that ?
Widow Mine?! o.O that's a HS terran unit i should skip that one for now, that's great tho, staircase works for the expantion too
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On December 06 2012 07:11 Danagor wrote:Oh i almost forgot, on the Terran lvl 11 i guess the tooltip says "HellBat" and the Hellbat is just a Campaing unit (or a BroodWar unit), i don't know what's the new unit there, can u please fix that ?
Yea, sorry, right now TheStaircase is set up with HotS units. You could notice viper in zerg, widow mine in terran, and oracle in protoss, etc. I've kept them in because having them there doesn't effect being able to play, and in all seriousness, the map will probably see light during HotS.
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Venezuela15 Posts
On the terran lvl 15 it says Vikings, but when i played they were not eneabled, my guess is that neither did the AI unlocked the unit for that specific lvl
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Venezuela15 Posts
On December 06 2012 07:29 Coldlogic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 07:11 Danagor wrote:Oh i almost forgot, on the Terran lvl 11 i guess the tooltip says "HellBat" and the Hellbat is just a Campaing unit (or a BroodWar unit), i don't know what's the new unit there, can u please fix that ? Yea, sorry, right now TheStaircase is set up with HotS units. You could notice viper in zerg, widow mine in terran, and oracle in protoss, etc. I've kept them in because having them there doesn't effect being able to play, and in all seriousness, the map will probably see light during HotS.
Awesome that's cool and good thinking ahead of time... (joke) umm i wonder if the dev. plays SC 2?  (joke)
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On December 06 2012 09:13 Danagor wrote:
On the terran lvl 15 it says Vikings, but when i played they were not eneabled, my guess is that neither did the AI unlocked the unit for that specific lvl
New build up.
Fixed bug that would stop allowing and disallowing tech too early.
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Personally, I figured out how to use thestaircase pretty easily with whatever information was provided. I haven't at all touched the custom map, I just ladder and record my SQ and all of that. It's not that hard, really. If you have questions, of course you should ask, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the presentation. It's not like step by step explanations but it's all there.
@Danagor: The SQ is just a number you use to track how fast you use your resources on average per game. When you have a high number in "average unspent resources" in relation to the "resource collection rate", it means that you are keeping your money low throughout the game.
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I've got a question for Coldlogic. It would be amazing if you could see your SQ after a round in TheStaircase.
Have you considered trying to get your map to calculate it or is that too difficult / impossible to do?
I have very little knowledge about programming and no knowledge whatsoever about the map editor, so the following could be horribly wrong.
I'm thinking that if you could write a function to look at someone's minerals every 5 seconds, store the information away and average it at the end of the game, then you'd be able to get the average unspent minerals of a player. Then another function could look at the number of ressources mined by a player (in a x range around a hatch / nexus / cc, count how many minerals and gas are remaining and substract that to what the mineral patches and geyser had at the start of the game), and average the mining rate. And then a third function could process those two variables to calculate the SQ.
Is that even feasible?
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On December 06 2012 17:04 Nepherius wrote:
I've got a question for Coldlogic. It would be amazing if you could see your SQ after a round in TheStaircase.
Have you considered trying to get your map to calculate it or is that too difficult / impossible to do?
I have very little knowledge about programming and no knowledge whatsoever about the map editor, so the following could be horribly wrong.
I'm thinking that if you could write a function to look at someone's minerals every 5 seconds, store the information away and average it at the end of the game, then you'd be able to get the average unspent minerals of a player. Then another function could look at the number of ressources mined by a player (in a x range around a hatch / nexus / cc, count how many minerals and gas are remaining and substract that to what the mineral patches and geyser had at the start of the game), and average the mining rate. And then a third function could process those two variables to calculate the SQ.
Is that even feasible?
I actually have looked very deeply into it. It is something that will take a lot of time though. You are close to what I am thinking about doing, the problem is that I have memory constraints to deal with on the map (doing too much stuff can cause the game to lag).
My initial thought was to just get the resource collection rate and average unspent from the spectator interface, but obviously that is for the entire game, so the numbers would be horribly skewed by the 2nd round. That is when I realized I had to calculate it myself.
So every so often I will need to sample the unspent resources and save that data. The fear around memory constraints comes in here. Say I do it every 5 seconds. That is 12 times per minute. Now, the longest game I have ever played has been around an hour probably. That is a maximum of 720 sampling states I need to make. And that is on a per player basis, so just for a 1v1 map, 1440 sampling states. I have to declare this memory at the start of the game, so I will have an array sitting around that has 1440 integers worth of memory.
Resource collection rate, I AM PRAYING, could just be calculated by dividing the amount of resources collected by the duration of the round. If not, something similar to avg unspent would have to be done by sampling the amount of resources and then calculating the changes between them.
Ok, now those are the two big numbers needed to calculate SQ. Here is the third giant problem: there is no mathematical function for calculating the natural log of a value in the editor. Not really a HUGE problem, but definitely a problem. I would then have to calculate the Taylor series or an Infinite series and traverse a certain number of steps to determine the natural log by hand (via computer ). Then use that value to calculate SQ.
You can imagine my concern with allocating so much memory, half the time the memory wouldn't even be used. I also considered limiting SQ to be 30 minutes or something, to cut the allocation space in half. There are a bunch of factors to consider and JaKaTaK and myself are currently discussing what to do with it.
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On December 06 2012 21:57 Coldlogic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 17:04 Nepherius wrote:
I've got a question for Coldlogic. It would be amazing if you could see your SQ after a round in TheStaircase.
Have you considered trying to get your map to calculate it or is that too difficult / impossible to do?
I have very little knowledge about programming and no knowledge whatsoever about the map editor, so the following could be horribly wrong.
I'm thinking that if you could write a function to look at someone's minerals every 5 seconds, store the information away and average it at the end of the game, then you'd be able to get the average unspent minerals of a player. Then another function could look at the number of ressources mined by a player (in a x range around a hatch / nexus / cc, count how many minerals and gas are remaining and substract that to what the mineral patches and geyser had at the start of the game), and average the mining rate. And then a third function could process those two variables to calculate the SQ.
Is that even feasible? I actually have looked very deeply into it. It is something that will take a lot of time though. You are close to what I am thinking about doing, the problem is that I have memory constraints to deal with on the map (doing too much stuff can cause the game to lag). My initial thought was to just get the resource collection rate and average unspent from the spectator interface, but obviously that is for the entire game, so the numbers would be horribly skewed by the 2nd round. That is when I realized I had to calculate it myself. So every so often I will need to sample the unspent resources and save that data. The fear around memory constraints comes in here. Say I do it every 5 seconds. That is 12 times per minute. Now, the longest game I have ever played has been around an hour probably. That is a maximum of 720 sampling states I need to make. And that is on a per player basis, so just for a 1v1 map, 1440 sampling states. I have to declare this memory at the start of the game, so I will have an array sitting around that has 1440 integers worth of memory. Resource collection rate, I AM PRAYING, could just be calculated by dividing the amount of resources collected by the duration of the round. If not, something similar to avg unspent would have to be done by sampling the amount of resources and then calculating the changes between them. Ok, now those are the two big numbers needed to calculate SQ. Here is the third giant problem: there is no mathematical function for calculating the natural log of a value in the editor. Not really a HUGE problem, but definitely a problem. I would then have to calculate the Taylor series or an Infinite series and traverse a certain number of steps to determine the natural log by hand (via computer ). Then use that value to calculate SQ. You can imagine my concern with allocating so much memory, half the time the memory wouldn't even be used. I also considered limiting SQ to be 30 minutes or something, to cut the allocation space in half. There are a bunch of factors to consider and JaKaTaK and myself are currently discussing what to do with it.
1440 integers is roughly 6KB of memory, which seems like basically nothing in terms of anything you'd worry about affecting performance. I mean, SC2 is already using about 30,000x that amount of memory at any given point in time, right? I'm not sure how that is an issue, you could be storing an array of 1 million integers and you should still be fine.
That said, the natural log issue does seem a bit troublesome.
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Keep in mind. We are currently looking for a new SQ. If we can find a way to have and average unspent resources and resource collection rate (but not necessarily the same one as SQ) we can have tons of players from different leagues test the map and collect data for what a platinum player plays at and what a diamond player plays at etc etc (of course this test map would be different as we would want to test full games and not staircase games.
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On December 06 2012 21:57 Coldlogic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 17:04 Nepherius wrote:
I've got a question for Coldlogic. It would be amazing if you could see your SQ after a round in TheStaircase.
Have you considered trying to get your map to calculate it or is that too difficult / impossible to do?
I have very little knowledge about programming and no knowledge whatsoever about the map editor, so the following could be horribly wrong.
I'm thinking that if you could write a function to look at someone's minerals every 5 seconds, store the information away and average it at the end of the game, then you'd be able to get the average unspent minerals of a player. Then another function could look at the number of ressources mined by a player (in a x range around a hatch / nexus / cc, count how many minerals and gas are remaining and substract that to what the mineral patches and geyser had at the start of the game), and average the mining rate. And then a third function could process those two variables to calculate the SQ.
Is that even feasible? I actually have looked very deeply into it. It is something that will take a lot of time though. You are close to what I am thinking about doing, the problem is that I have memory constraints to deal with on the map (doing too much stuff can cause the game to lag). My initial thought was to just get the resource collection rate and average unspent from the spectator interface, but obviously that is for the entire game, so the numbers would be horribly skewed by the 2nd round. That is when I realized I had to calculate it myself. So every so often I will need to sample the unspent resources and save that data. The fear around memory constraints comes in here. Say I do it every 5 seconds. That is 12 times per minute. Now, the longest game I have ever played has been around an hour probably. That is a maximum of 720 sampling states I need to make. And that is on a per player basis, so just for a 1v1 map, 1440 sampling states. I have to declare this memory at the start of the game, so I will have an array sitting around that has 1440 integers worth of memory. Resource collection rate, I AM PRAYING, could just be calculated by dividing the amount of resources collected by the duration of the round. If not, something similar to avg unspent would have to be done by sampling the amount of resources and then calculating the changes between them. Ok, now those are the two big numbers needed to calculate SQ. Here is the third giant problem: there is no mathematical function for calculating the natural log of a value in the editor. Not really a HUGE problem, but definitely a problem. I would then have to calculate the Taylor series or an Infinite series and traverse a certain number of steps to determine the natural log by hand (via computer ). Then use that value to calculate SQ. You can imagine my concern with allocating so much memory, half the time the memory wouldn't even be used. I also considered limiting SQ to be 30 minutes or something, to cut the allocation space in half. There are a bunch of factors to consider and JaKaTaK and myself are currently discussing what to do with it.
Can't you do a running average rather than saving every data point? Store how many you have collected then every tick average that into the running number?
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Interesting method! I like how you tied it in to the RSA Animate video. Thanks for sharing that.
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According to a guy in this thread I created the BNET forums, http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320822525, there is a log2I function which calculates the base-2 log of a number. Using this, you can easily calculate the natural log by doing log2I(x) / log2I(e), or log2I(x) / 1.442695.
Would this work for calculating the SQ?
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Venezuela15 Posts
On December 06 2012 15:59 eS_ToDo wrote:
Personally, I figured out how to use thestaircase pretty easily with whatever information was provided. I haven't at all touched the custom map, I just ladder and record my SQ and all of that. It's not that hard, really. If you have questions, of course you should ask, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the presentation. It's not like step by step explanations but it's all there.
@Danagor: The SQ is just a number you use to track how fast you use your resources on average per game. When you have a high number in "average unspent resources" in relation to the "resource collection rate", it means that you are keeping your money low throughout the game.
Thank you
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On December 07 2012 03:20 JDub wrote:According to a guy in this thread I created the BNET forums, http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320822525, there is a log2I function which calculates the base-2 log of a number. Using this, you can easily calculate the natural log by doing log2I(x) / log2I(e), or log2I(x) / 1.442695. Would this work for calculating the SQ?
This would work, the problem now becomes replicating average unspent and collection rate. If my data does not compute exactly to what a normal game would, then the numbers would be skewed, and thus useless.
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EDIT:
On December 07 2012 02:02 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:57 Coldlogic wrote:On December 06 2012 17:04 Nepherius wrote:
I've got a question for Coldlogic. It would be amazing if you could see your SQ after a round in TheStaircase.
Have you considered trying to get your map to calculate it or is that too difficult / impossible to do?
I have very little knowledge about programming and no knowledge whatsoever about the map editor, so the following could be horribly wrong.
I'm thinking that if you could write a function to look at someone's minerals every 5 seconds, store the information away and average it at the end of the game, then you'd be able to get the average unspent minerals of a player. Then another function could look at the number of ressources mined by a player (in a x range around a hatch / nexus / cc, count how many minerals and gas are remaining and substract that to what the mineral patches and geyser had at the start of the game), and average the mining rate. And then a third function could process those two variables to calculate the SQ.
Is that even feasible? I actually have looked very deeply into it. It is something that will take a lot of time though. You are close to what I am thinking about doing, the problem is that I have memory constraints to deal with on the map (doing too much stuff can cause the game to lag). My initial thought was to just get the resource collection rate and average unspent from the spectator interface, but obviously that is for the entire game, so the numbers would be horribly skewed by the 2nd round. That is when I realized I had to calculate it myself. So every so often I will need to sample the unspent resources and save that data. The fear around memory constraints comes in here. Say I do it every 5 seconds. That is 12 times per minute. Now, the longest game I have ever played has been around an hour probably. That is a maximum of 720 sampling states I need to make. And that is on a per player basis, so just for a 1v1 map, 1440 sampling states. I have to declare this memory at the start of the game, so I will have an array sitting around that has 1440 integers worth of memory. Resource collection rate, I AM PRAYING, could just be calculated by dividing the amount of resources collected by the duration of the round. If not, something similar to avg unspent would have to be done by sampling the amount of resources and then calculating the changes between them. Ok, now those are the two big numbers needed to calculate SQ. Here is the third giant problem: there is no mathematical function for calculating the natural log of a value in the editor. Not really a HUGE problem, but definitely a problem. I would then have to calculate the Taylor series or an Infinite series and traverse a certain number of steps to determine the natural log by hand (via computer ). Then use that value to calculate SQ. You can imagine my concern with allocating so much memory, half the time the memory wouldn't even be used. I also considered limiting SQ to be 30 minutes or something, to cut the allocation space in half. There are a bunch of factors to consider and JaKaTaK and myself are currently discussing what to do with it. Can't you do a running average rather than saving every data point? Store how many you have collected then every tick average that into the running number?
He already said what I have to say.
Although @PsychoMantis you don't have to store the amount of numbers recorded, you just have to add the average to the current unspent resources then divide by two. Otherwise you'd quickly end up with numbers which round down to zero.
+ Show Spoiler +In case you still don't see the problem, this would be your first handful of results with a constant 100 income:
100
(100+100)/2=100
(100+100)/3=33.33
(33.33+100)/4=33.33
(33.33+100)/5=26.67
(26.67+100)/6=21.11
etc.
It seems to be what Blizz does as well, considering how quickly statistics like income, APM, etc. update.
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EPT
