EPTHotkey setups - Page 2
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Cuber
Poland48 Posts
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
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Vronti
United States111 Posts
EDIT: Got the chance to watch it, great video and insight! I especially like the focus on the Tab-Q-E setup there, things like that can really change your game for the better. Once I get used to The Core I'll have to see if I can optimize anymore with combinations of the sort. P.S. Intro/Outro were awesome, unique and perfectly themed. EDIT 2: Just saw Zasg's post above me (wrote my reply on page 1 so missed it). Especially when I get into the late-game, I forget about idle SCVs very easily and F1 etc isn't something I ever hit/think about. Making that easier is a great idea, especially for lower-league fellows like me. | ||
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Crugio
Australia45 Posts
Very difficult learning curve and some people aren't willing to spend the time to relearn, or pop out keys or move away from WASD. Even if you don't like the Core, there is amazing analysis that can be used in "your own" setup. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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Milsberry
United States18 Posts
On July 31 2012 00:21 Trasko wrote: I've never actually tried custom hotkeys. I suppose it's pretty beneficial? It's very very beneficial. I used standard hotkeys at first. Was stuck in gold for a little while lol. Made all custom hotkeys and I'm now high diamond facing masters here and there. Planning on adding even more hotkeys as well. I could never even imagine going back to standard hotkeys. I've essentially set up hotkeys where all of the main casted abilities are "Q" and "E". Warping in I just hit w and then shift and spam Q for zealots, E for sentries, R for stalkers, etc. I mostly use q,w,e,r,f,d for keybinds. 1-5 for ctrl groups and ive added 6 and 7 with the help of my mouse. Main thing I need to add now is camera location keys. For building I use similar hotkeys. To build a gateway I grab a probe and hit q twice. To build a robo I hit e twice. Etc. | ||
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rofllocktree
Netherlands45 Posts
Does anybody know if there is something similar for Terran players? I like to see finger/hand placement video and hotkeys for terrar players. thx | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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yevoc
United States93 Posts
A picture is worth a thousand words... (Key layout) + Show Spoiler + Apologies for the density of information. This is the Apple mini keyboard. Scissor-switch keys are just so dang fast! See the next picture below on why minis help out so much. Teal is the "home row" for all 5 fingers, and the control groups are orange. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fbzf7.jpg) ^ All 10 control groups are within immediate reach with very few keys for the weaker fingers. Transit times for the time-critical keystrokes are MUCH shorter with this setup. I'd also like to point out how much faster/easier these camera control buttons are than the function keys. You may not need all 10 control groups as desperately if you're playing P or T, but when you have 5 queens, 3 armies, and hatches...let's just say I'm never going back to a Blizzard-made setup now. I don't know how any zerg manages it without severe compromises. Hand position next to mouse... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y7XNU.jpg) ^ The greatest benefit to both having a mini keyboard AND using its right side of keys is that your mouse hand can now play super close to your left hand. I never knew that my mouse precision/speed would significantly increase just by placing it this much closer to my other hand. EDIT: I forgot to add that spore crawlers are N. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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yevoc
United States93 Posts
On August 04 2012 13:59 FoxyMayhem wrote: Could you please detail how you use the pointer finger more efficiently? It's not quite apparent to me so far. The index finger shouldn't start on the same row as the middle finger unless you have an abnormally long index finger. It's why WASD is....well WASD instead of WASE. The act of moving the index finger up a row from its home position also doesn't incur much stroke penalty, but moving the index finger down 2 rows (as it would in Core) yields a far more significant penalty. Moreover, 8 to 10 keys are readily available to the index finger with minimal travel in this setup, and most of those are control groups to take advantage of the strength and speed of the index. | ||
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Monsyphon
Canada190 Posts
It's absolutely amazing and my hands literally does not move while I play, because everything is so packed together Everyone should try it out, check out this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254779 | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
I also think the WASD format was adopted to form an easy shape for people to understand what key relates with which direction, personally I find it uncomfortable as it cramps my somewhat large hands together. Are you accounting for the tilt of the keyboard? I do see the function of your layout and think it works well with your keyboard, but having large hands and and a preference for my mechanical keyboard I don't see the benefit. I also think some of your changes don't make sense. I don't see how putting build keys on the pinky fingers addresses the "overuse" of the pinky finger, in a far worse position as well. And how do you shift queue your attacks? just thinking about that brings pain to my index finger. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g25/Decadeskicksass/keyboard-3.png) Green: Queens (1 main, 2 nat, 3 third, 4 fourth) Red: Army Purple: Collective Hatches Brown: Creep Queens Blue (x): Overseer Black: Rally point Camera save 7-0, Y, H: Camera Saves The rest is harder to explain. 7-0 are actually all camera saves. However i don't set them by pressing control 7-0. I actually set them by pressing control A-F. For example if i wanted to save an area to 9, i would use control D to set it, but when i want to look at it i would just tap 9. I colored the keys accordingly to show this relationship. The keys E to Y, and V to H also have this same camera set, to camera save relationship, hence why they are colored the same way. Example: i want to set an active creep tumor not near the queen, control V to set it, tap H to go back to it. I won't bore you all with where i placed the upgrades and units keys, to make this possible. Oh yeah, i actually wouldn't recommend the entirety of my setup to anybody. I was fairly new to RTS when SC2 came out and i just tried to make everything as comfortable as possible, for my small hands. Though there may be ideas or parts that can help others with their own, Hot-keying problems. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
On August 04 2012 14:42 yevoc wrote:The index finger shouldn't start on the same row as the middle finger unless you have an abnormally long index finger. It's why WASD is....well WASD instead of WASE. Interesting point.We try to work with physical reasons why a thing shouldn't be done. I'm going to assume you mean "it should not be done because the index finger is significantly shorter than the middle finger". Correct me if I'm wrong. TheCore uses a tilted hand position, coming in at a 80-ish degree angle instead of a perpendicular 90 degree angle (what your setup uses). This makes the distance from knuckle to home key shorter for the index finger than it is for the middle finger, mimicking what you're talking about.. Also, it does have your middle finger curl a bit more. I and many others find it comfortable, and it allows easy reach to the keys above the middle finger. On August 04 2012 14:42 yevoc wrote: The act of moving the index finger up a row from its home position also doesn't incur much stroke penalty, but moving the index finger down 2 rows (as it would in Core) yields a far more significant penalty. I'm not sure what you mean, can you clarify?On August 04 2012 14:42 yevoc wrote: Moreover, 8 to 10 keys are readily available to the index finger with minimal travel in this setup, and most of those are control groups to take advantage of the strength and speed of the index. The index is a fantastic finger, agreed. But no matter how fast you are with it, you cannot match the speed and ease of using 2 fingers for 2 sequential tasks. In the professional typing world, this is know as alternation.When designing the previous layout, I ran speed test to see if this was true. At my very fastest, my index finger could double tap a key in 70ms. Using the index and ring, I was able to strike two keys in 24ms, with much less strain. I mean, I really had to yank my finger up and down to achieve 70 ms, and it caused strain. The double tap average was 95ish ms and the two finger strike average was 45ms, almost half the time and much less straining. But, this is just tapping. When trying to activate two commands on two different keys, both struck by the index finger, the travel time delay is huge. For this example, assume the hand is resting on ASDF. Let's say we want to select your army control group and barracks control group, 2 commands. Army is G, barracks is T -- just for the sake of the example. The index finger must travel to G, press, travel to T, and then press. However, if barracks is on W, the ring finger can travel to W at the same time the index travels to G. 2 actions performed simultaneously, both speeding up the process and spreading the workload across the hand. To give you some rough numbers, if I recall correctly GT: 1)Reach for G: 120ms, 2)Press: 20ms 3)Release: 15ms 4)Reach for T: 130ms 5)Press: 25ms Total: 300ms (approx, if you're fast) GW 1) Reach for G and W: 140ms (approximate total time, although it doesn't take much/any longer to get to G) 2) Press G: 20ms 3) Observe: 50ms (I have to add this here, since the fingers aren't the slowest thing, human observation is) 4) Press W: 20ms Total: 230ms (approx, with less strain) (Note: release times did not need to be calculated since the next action did not require the same finger) If you're not looking at your selections, and say commanding two army groups, you can cut the third step out for an approximate total of 180ms. Disclaimer: This is from memory, I may have some of the numbers off. In fact, I think I may be seriously underselling the speed difference, but best to err on the side of not exaggerating. I think the travel time to keys may be closer to 250ms than 150ms... The effect gets even greater when you have 3 or 4 actions on one finger, versus spread across several. In some cases, it lets you execute actions twice as fast with significantly less strain. While the index is great, alternation is faster and less straining. It's multitasking on the finger level. EDIT: Since we're always looking to improve our setup, I ran your finger positioning (NJIL) through our testing process we used to determine our layouts. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it performed! Nice. Unfortunately, there are several major issues with the possitioning that make us unable to use it. If you are curious, I can list them. | ||
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kldfg
Germany59 Posts
On July 30 2012 18:16 Fragile51 wrote: Thanks for the video Artosis! Some interesting thoughts indeed. Personally i don't really like removing my windows key because it's basically one of the most useful keys outside of starcraft but hey, whatever floats ones boat :p ...or you have several keyboards  I use hotkey setups for most programs I use, and two different keyboards--one for games. | ||
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
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cskalias.pbe
United States293 Posts
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Avek
United States5 Posts
Personally, I use a variety of small changes that I believe give me an advantage. I'll include my changes as a list for your viewing pleasure. (DISCLAIMER: I'm a platinum Zerg on the NA server.) * I changed the Number 0 key to also be bound to my back button on my mouse (logitech mx518). I put evolution chambers on here, so i dont have to jump all the way across the keyboard to check my upgrade progress. * I changed the Melee upgrade on the evolution chamber to Q, so when i go 14/14, I can build a queen and start metabolic boost very very quickly, rather then sprinting across the keyboard. * I changed my "Bind Camera position" keys to F1 through F4 to be able to get better access to them * I changed the "Select idle worker" key to tilde (`) to make way for my movement of the F1 through F4 keys. This also makes that certain key very accessible. * Changed the "Center screen on next base" key to Tab, allowing for very easy use And thats about it for now. If you have any better suggestions or tweaks to my changes, go ahead and mention them :D | ||
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