EPT[L][D] Terran Mech: Resources - Page 24
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
I'm not sure what the is the correct response. my responses so far: against mech: fast BC tech -nearly completly air transition against bio+mech: raven+viking and some banshees to snipe tanks and ground support from tanks against pure bio: raven+viking+banshee (later bc) and tank+hellion support are these the correct responses? What do you think? replays are welcome  | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
Against Bio I do it slower as I wait until I get a critical tank count where he can't push me and I can secure bases. Against Mech I do it faster as it always benefits you to be the first person to do it as long as you have good space control, it's good to prepare starports with both techlabs and reactors and then react to what he's doing, if he's going to add a bunch of vikings really quickly, then stop battlecruisers and add ravens with vikings yourself, make sure you have 1 or two thors for extra damage too. If the mech player goes full bcs too, then just carry on with bcs and get better yamatos than he does. I mean you can get loads of vikings, but BC vs BC is much more fun! :D If you're too slow to transition first, just add vikings and ravens, then add BCs after. One thing I will say though is make sure you get your air upgrades as quick as possible. Against all matchups in TvT I've been getting 2 armories, then adding +3 attack on my mech and getting +3 on plating for my air as quickly as possible since it basically makes the BCs survive forever against marines. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:28 Qikz wrote: For me I always transition into mass battlecruiser. Against Bio I do it slower as I wait until I get a critical tank count where he can't push me and I can secure bases. Against Mech I do it faster as it always benefits you to be the first person to do it as long as you have good space control, it's good to prepare starports with both techlabs and reactors and then react to what he's doing, if he's going to add a bunch of vikings really quickly, then stop battlecruisers and add ravens with vikings yourself, make sure you have 1 or two thors for extra damage too. If the mech player goes full bcs too, then just carry on with bcs and get better yamatos than he does. I mean you can get loads of vikings, but BC vs BC is much more fun! :D If you're too slow to transition first, just add vikings and ravens, then add BCs after. against mech you only need some BC imo because raven with pdd, hsm and lots of vikings rape the traditional bc+viking composition and just add some BC to snipe thors, kill turetts and kill ground units of course.. against pure bio i find it really hard to go into mass BC because marines are fast and kill your BC really efficient or should i just build mass hellion (no gas need) and transition into Air (BC/Raven/Viking), because most bio player build tons of starport if they noticed they can not break you with bio. against tank+marine+medivac i like to snipe tanks with banshee and i really like hsm against marines :D you can also throw down auto turrets around his tanks and "catch" them. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:39 saaaa wrote: against mech you only need some BC imo because raven with pdd, hsm and lots of vikings rape the traditional bc+viking composition and just add some BC to snipe thors, kill turetts and kill ground units of course.. against pure bio i find it really hard to go into mass BC because marines are fast and kill your BC really efficient or should i just build mass hellion (no gas need) and transition into Air (BC/Raven/Viking), because most bio player build tons of starport if they noticed they can not break you with bio. against tank+marine+medivac i like to snipe tanks with banshee and i really like hsm against marines :D you can also throw down auto turrets around his tanks and "catch" them. Every time I've gone up against mass BC i've lost because of Yamato Cannon spam. Does anybody really feel comfortable when it goes to air vs air? It seems like a complete clusterfuck when the engagement happens. I don't know what i'm supposed to prioritise compositionally and the engagement seems to come down to who happened to get the better composition and hits the AOE. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:47 Absentia wrote: Every time I've gone up against mass BC i've lost because of Yamato Cannon spam. Does anybody really feel comfortable when it goes to air vs air? It seems like a complete clusterfuck when the engagement happens. I don't know what i'm supposed to prioritise compositionally and the engagement seems to come down to who happened to get the better composition and hits the AOE. I love when it goes to air vs air as I usually win. What you want to do is when you have a lot of battlecruisers, make sure to try to yamato the ravens as you go into engage. I don't even bother using HSM as two thors underneath your army, good yamato cannons and also good viking spread means you'll most likely win most air engagements. If you feel you've fallen behind in the air transition and it'll be hard to catch up, just start getting up a lot of thors and also turrets and force him to engage you while you're on top of them all. Even with a smaller airforce, with decent ground to air you'll still win. The most important thing is to focus down the ravens with whatever you can quickly, which is usually yamato cannons as they go through PDD. | ||
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mousez
Australia94 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:39 saaaa wrote: against mech you only need some BC imo because raven with pdd, hsm and lots of vikings rape the traditional bc+viking composition and just add some BC to snipe thors, kill turetts and kill ground units of course.. against pure bio i find it really hard to go into mass BC because marines are fast and kill your BC really efficient or should i just build mass hellion (no gas need) and transition into Air (BC/Raven/Viking), because most bio player build tons of starport if they noticed they can not break you with bio. against tank+marine+medivac i like to snipe tanks with banshee and i really like hsm against marines :D you can also throw down auto turrets around his tanks and "catch" them. come on guys i'am really interested in your opinions and want to discuss whats the best way to play against the different compositions of terran. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
vs mech you make tanks. Early on in mech vs mech thors can be useful (regardless of air presence). If the bio player gets tanks but doesn't get air you make banshees to snipe his tanks (using the dynamic between tank/viking/banshee). If the bio player goes mass air you make mass viking with raven support and then bcs. Ghosts can be useful at this point for emping ravens. Ultimately tvt converges no matter what style either player is using (mech vs bio, mech vs mech, bio vs bio) into bc/raven/viking/thor + tank (and maybe ghost) support, and either marine or hellion filler as is appropriate. Seeker is pretty bad vs bio. You can nail the center marine of a group (you'll almost certainly lose the raven to get that shot off though) and you'll kill something like 6 marines and injure a few more (which his medics will heal instantly). Most frequently you're going to encounter mech vs bio where the bio will add in tanks on 3base and vikings on 4base (and bcs). Nobody actually goes "pure bio" for an entire game unless it's either a very short game or they want to lose really badly the moment the mecher maxes. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
I just had a game there where the composition worked so well (I forgot ghosts even) that I ended up with about 6 BCs, 6 thors and 5 tanks with hellions and just went and killed him. God damn BCs are strong with Thor and Siege support. First TvP I've won in a good load of days too! Happy :D | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
Kollin my typical opening is thor expand (most frequently it's armory cc thor if I'm not concerned about aggression). Unless stuff protoss does drives me to do otherwise I have a soft goal of 8 tank 6 thor, but that's independant of the opening itself. So if I scout what looks like a 4gate and get a tank instead of hellion/armory I'll make a few tanks after cc to remain secure before adding in thors. Typically though, if I open my thor expand it's 3rd cc after 3rd thor, then tank/siege, fact fact, ghost acad, moebius reactor, 2nd rax, ghost production (the ghost production part is a little different from what I used to, where I got much later ghost upgrades and just started ghost production on 1rax asap), 4th cc is when I can afford, then turrets to keep me secure as I spread out and expand, etc; as is possible in-game. From there the buildings I make and how I use them is dependant on the map and game. My midgame is thor/tank/hellion/ghost, and yes I add ports after I buy 6th thor (assuming I've already gotten 8th tank). Depending on opponent's composition and my determination of their probability of aggression I may make some more tanks, or I might make some banshees, else I'll go into bc production. Unless I feel compelled to make more for defense's sake I won't make more tank/thor. Lategame I'll be pumping ghosts, bcs, nukes as I use them, hellions as supply allows, and maybe ravens if I can't afford bcs for cost or supply and feel compelled to make something. I'll add a few more facts and a 3rd rax (the rax earlier than the facts) for rapid remaxing purposes. Once the fighting starts in earnest I'll replace ghosts and thors with highest priority, and then bcs. I often make pure hellion from facts in endgame scenarios if my thor count is acceptable. I don't make more tanks typically. My endgame army almost never includes any tanks. Tanks are only useful vs mass stalker by that point for defensive purposes. Max stalker is typical if you win a fight but have your own army badly damaged in the process. Protoss makes stalker to quickly remax and run around map and if your army isn't good enough to split up adequately tanks can be useful. If I'm broke I may make banshees instead of bcs. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
Almost won another game just there, but it was on cloud kingdom and he ran up the ramp and killed my main. That game taught me that Yamato can actually be cancelled by Feedback, half killing the BCs and also making them a lot weaker again. Kind of sucks, but I'll have to be careful of that in the future. Also just won me a TvT and got myself promoted back to Diamond after an entire season of being back in plat. I'm on the rise again! :D | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
If he attacks into you and suicides everything you pressure his expos and harass as is possible but you don't attack. Protoss remaxes instantly on gate units, which suck. So you just make your army invincible and laugh as he can't do anything with his and can't make a good army without suiciding everything again. If you attack at that time he has a chance to win. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
i sometimes just forget to fly it to the 3rd base when its finished and then it stays for around 3 minutes in base. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
http://drop.sc/253697 I think that's how you play right? Just I used my own opening that you helped me get right yesterday. It was on entombed too! | ||
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