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On September 01 2012 22:48 Qikz wrote:
The only reason I find seige expand works for me is that I've never been beaten by early agression and my build means I'm safe against the majority of cheese that protoss can send at me (DT's etc. etc.). I find it so safe that I don't really worry about scouting after the first SCV. From there I just scout for when he expands.
EDIT: As I say that I die to proxy void ray with 4 gate.
Well damn that hit me hard.
That's the thing I was worrying about. It's the only situation where I think Thor expand would be better. I guess if I see double gas when I scout my opponent I should just switch my build to Thor expand as it's not a big deviation.
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Quick question to Qikz (so many q's), could you give me any replays of your TvP mech style? I really want to analyse some specific stuff about,the build. You don't have to but I'd really appreciate it.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On September 02 2012 03:53 kollin wrote:
Quick question to Qikz (so many q's), could you give me any replays of your TvP mech style? I really want to analyse some specific stuff about,the build. You don't have to but I'd really appreciate it.
Wins:
http://drop.sc/246303 - Shakuras Win
http://drop.sc/246315 - Shakuras Win (Against air switch)
http://drop.sc/246301 - Cloud Kingdom
Losses:
http://drop.sc/246314 - Shakuras Loss
http://drop.sc/246302 - Ohana loss (Threw this game)
http://drop.sc/246300 - Entombed Valley loss (I threw it I think)
The play isn't perfect as even I'm still trying to make this style work better for me. You'll notice my factory amount keeps changing via games depending on how much I fuck up/get right so I wouldn't take these as perfect, but against our level of toss this build can work pretty well unless I muck up with attacking in the wrong places or fuck up the opening.
I saved the one against voidrays, but when I went to upload it, the replay transformed into a TvZ so I have no idea how that happened.
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Alright thanks for those, I'll look over them tomorrow 
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On August 28 2012 10:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 08:41 Pookie Monster wrote:
after not gaming since season 2 i came back to ladder in June, ive gotten back into high masters using entirely mech builds against all races expect protoss, which i go bio mech in. Im thinking it might be best if you want to go Mech in toss to open with Bio first early Mech just seems to fragile. Have you looked at some of the replays in this thread? The reps I've uploaded contain a fair amount of tvps where I'm holding off early and/or midgame aggression. I don't find mech to be fragile vs protoss when used right. I'll check out those proleague games tomorow.
i watched them, yes you gave me some new ideas thanks for the uploads
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Just want to thank this thread for all the help I have had from reading here
Been meching in TvZ and TvT and going to try TvP once again
I still believe mech is the future of Terran.
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New replays pack!
http://www.mediafire.com/?1ohui81vzbiybty
Actually, i'm doing since a few days a fast 4 oc into mech/air style, playing totally defensive (no harass, etc) and abusing the power of 4 OC scanning/muling to be able to adapt my composition instead of going for a more generic one. Having 4 oc makes adapting to his play and replenishing your economy really easily
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
Having so much trouble over the past few days, I've gone from winning nearly every game to losing most of them for really stupid reasons like getting myself supply blocked. I guess I'm on some kind of tilt as losses are getting me really angry for no reason and it's badly affecting my play as it just feels like I can't win at all. I hate when this happens.
I've gone from winning nearly every single TvZ to losing every single one and it's the only matchup I seem to be getting. I think I need a break then watch my replays of me winning and try and work out where I'm going wrong. Sorry if it sounds a little ranty, I've just got nowhere else to complain. x.x
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Calm down, watch your loss reps, identify recurring mistakes, focus on avoiding those specific mistakes in the remainder of your practice games. Best way to continue a loss streak is to avoid watching them and keep making yourself angry. Usually loss streaks are caused by super simple mistakes too, but if you just ignore them and move on to the next game you keep making them.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
Yeah I checked my replays last night before I went to bed and I think I understand where I was going wrong. I changed my opening from 1fact FE into 1fact banshees and while trying to micro my banshees which ultimately did no damage due to him getting spores blindly I kind of let my macro slip and I was supply blocked for ages.
Venting definately helps to get rid of the anger, but I'm ready to keep on fighting today now so after I've done all my usual stuff It's back to practicing. ^^
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So I played a TvT vs Qikz today and oh my god he is so good at mech vs mech. He dominated me for the entire game, past like the 10 minute mark.
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If you guys want you can add my stream for tvz mech source, ill be streaming every day for the next week . See Youuu Im 1300pts Master League.
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On September 04 2012 04:26 coldscars wrote:If you guys want you can add my stream for tvz mech source, ill be streaming every day for the next week . See Youuu Im 1300pts Master League.
Could you give us a link ^^
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On September 04 2012 04:17 kollin wrote:
So I played a TvT vs Qikz today and oh my god he is so good at mech vs mech. He dominated me for the entire game, past like the 10 minute mark.
Unlike mech vs bio I guess I just know how to set up good tank lines as with mech it's really hard to break the tank line without good vision and slow pushing, if you do that kind of tank line against bio it gets shut down so hard and it makes me sad. Well until you get 3-3 and it's really hard for bio to do anything.
Mech vs Mech is definately the best though. I really do wish I'd come across more mech on ladder.
Oh by the way I managed to find those ESV maps finally so next time we play we could try them out. ^^
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On September 04 2012 07:22 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 04:17 kollin wrote:
So I played a TvT vs Qikz today and oh my god he is so good at mech vs mech. He dominated me for the entire game, past like the 10 minute mark. Unlike mech vs bio I guess I just know how to set up good tank lines as with mech it's really hard to break the tank line without good vision and slow pushing, if you do that kind of tank line against bio it gets shut down so hard and it makes me sad. Well until you get 3-3 and it's really hard for bio to do anything. Mech vs Mech is definately the best though. I really do wish I'd come across more mech on ladder. Oh by the way I managed to find those ESV maps finally so next time we play we could try them out. ^^
Brilliant :D
I literally learnt more in that game about TvT mech than I did in the past 50. I think I was scanning far too much and not pushing my tank line our far enough. My armoury was pretty late too.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On September 04 2012 07:29 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:22 Qikz wrote:On September 04 2012 04:17 kollin wrote:
So I played a TvT vs Qikz today and oh my god he is so good at mech vs mech. He dominated me for the entire game, past like the 10 minute mark. Unlike mech vs bio I guess I just know how to set up good tank lines as with mech it's really hard to break the tank line without good vision and slow pushing, if you do that kind of tank line against bio it gets shut down so hard and it makes me sad. Well until you get 3-3 and it's really hard for bio to do anything. Mech vs Mech is definately the best though. I really do wish I'd come across more mech on ladder. Oh by the way I managed to find those ESV maps finally so next time we play we could try them out. ^^ Brilliant :D I literally learnt more in that game about TvT mech than I did in the past 50. I think I was scanning far too much and not pushing my tank line our far enough. My armoury was pretty late too.
Well the way I showed you there was how I play mech TvT and I've got a map for cross against bio, it works quite similar for close on vertical too, horizontal is pretty straight forward, but it's how I set myself up to force them into air basically as they'll never break it without air.
+ Show Spoiler +
So basically I'm green and the bio player is red. I forgo middle control completely as it's a waste of time as he'll run around the middle. The green dots are tank lines with the turrets and sensor towers in front. The 1/2 and 3 are the order I take the last 3 bases for the gas as to secure the bases quickly and efficiently and basically what you're trying to do is completely zone off your side of the map for any form of attacks. The turrets stop drops into the main areas and even with a full bio force it's really hard to break tank lines in those positions. He can never run around the side or get any flanks, he has to run into the lined up heavily upgraded tank lines and so far I've never had it fail me. You can't obviously set up right away and setting up your tanks on the other side of the map you have to do very carefully, but with enough tanks you quite frankly become unbreakable if you have turrets.
You then sit there with your largish starport count and scan for whenever you notice him going air. Then you start pumping vikings, you throw away any mining minerals SCVs you have and focus entirely on mules. You then (as the person who already had 2 armories getting all the mech upgrades and start the air ones) simply out produce vikings and just win the game that way.
TvT I have no idea why, but is easily my best matchup, it was in Broodwar too as I love looking at the maps and thinking up these kind of map things.
EDIT: Today I think I finally learnt the final piece in the zerg puzzle. Have you guys ever targeted Larva with hellions before? Yeah, it's not pretty and it basically means if you're clever enough about it you can really hinder their remax by just throwing hellions at larva kills.
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On September 04 2012 07:46 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:29 kollin wrote:On September 04 2012 07:22 Qikz wrote:On September 04 2012 04:17 kollin wrote:
So I played a TvT vs Qikz today and oh my god he is so good at mech vs mech. He dominated me for the entire game, past like the 10 minute mark. Unlike mech vs bio I guess I just know how to set up good tank lines as with mech it's really hard to break the tank line without good vision and slow pushing, if you do that kind of tank line against bio it gets shut down so hard and it makes me sad. Well until you get 3-3 and it's really hard for bio to do anything. Mech vs Mech is definately the best though. I really do wish I'd come across more mech on ladder. Oh by the way I managed to find those ESV maps finally so next time we play we could try them out. ^^ Brilliant :D I literally learnt more in that game about TvT mech than I did in the past 50. I think I was scanning far too much and not pushing my tank line our far enough. My armoury was pretty late too. Well the way I showed you there was how I play mech TvT and I've got a map for cross against bio, it works quite similar for close on vertical too, horizontal is pretty straight forward, but it's how I set myself up to force them into air basically as they'll never break it without air. + Show Spoiler +So basically I'm green and the bio player is red. I forgo middle control completely as it's a waste of time as he'll run around the middle. The green dots are tank lines with the turrets and sensor towers in front. The 1/2 and 3 are the order I take the last 3 bases for the gas as to secure the bases quickly and efficiently and basically what you're trying to do is completely zone off your side of the map for any form of attacks. The turrets stop drops into the main areas and even with a full bio force it's really hard to break tank lines in those positions. He can never run around the side or get any flanks, he has to run into the lined up heavily upgraded tank lines and so far I've never had it fail me. You can't obviously set up right away and setting up your tanks on the other side of the map you have to do very carefully, but with enough tanks you quite frankly become unbreakable if you have turrets. You then sit there with your largish starport count and scan for whenever you notice him going air. Then you start pumping vikings, you throw away any mining minerals SCVs you have and focus entirely on mules. You then (as the person who already had 2 armories getting all the mech upgrades and start the air ones) simply out produce vikings and just win the game that way. TvT I have no idea why, but is easily my best matchup, it was in Broodwar too as I love looking at the maps and thinking up these kind of map things.
Yeah I generally try and think of these positional things too. For example I had the idea on shakuras plateau of dropping tanks and 3 scv's on the main base that overlooks your opponents third then walling off with supply depots.mi haven't tried it out yet, but I would like to! Also that diagram you drew was really helpful. I think when I played against you, that's how I was playing. I was turtling too much and not trying to move out and secure position on you. Thanks for the help you've given me.
Edit: About your hellion question yes I have! I do it when I the drones have run away, because chances are I will hinder him more by killing 6 or 7 lava than 2 or 3 drones.
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Anyone have an extra europe account I could use briefly to try out to test the latency? If it's playable I'll get my own eu account and join you guys.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zPis1.jpg)
