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I don't care how elitist you exactly are, I just downloaded one replay and was expecting some serious stuff here.
I do realize few zergs nowadays go for ling / speedbane (into mutas, which is irrelevant in this case).
At the 11min mark you have one void, one sentry, one phoenix and one zealot.
At the 11min mark, a speedbane ling build has llike... 60 lings and 30 speedbanes, probably some more depending on other tech.
I guess it's not really an issue how thick your "walloff" here is. Your third can be totally ignored here, obviously. Your stuff will get rolled, hard. Before your other gates pop. 11min or 10:30 (which is before stephano style, obviously, and before serious collossus tech) is a good timing for this.
This build really boils down to
- chargelots are very powerful against current metagame zerg endgame composition because they simply rape infestors
- vortex + archons is really weird, that's why it won't be in HotS
- timing of current metagame zerg aggression, which hits at about 12-12:30
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Fantastic build, thanks for the writeup, but as I've been executing the build I've ran into some problems. Most notably, when the zerg is going roach-hydra with quick upgrades and they push out at approximately 12-13 minutes. I'll have a vortex by then, along with some chargelot/archon. As they engage my army, they split their army into three and I'm unable to get a perfect vortex off and kill everything as their army is split. At that point, they simply either kill me with the push, or their next push kills me because I don't have a vortex anymore.
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United States8477 Posts
I think this title is a bit misleading, but more importantly not very informative/indicative of the content inside. If the OP wants me to change it, feel free to PM me.
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Dude, I just want to say that this build is sick (now that I can execute it a bit better)!
Best part was when a slightly favored zerg got some lings in my base early game and proceeded to offensively gg me, then faced him the game after and DESTROYED him with this. With an offensive GG back ofc 
Good guide! 
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sweet guide. Really. Early mothership sounds like fun.
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On July 16 2012 08:18 NrGmonk wrote:
I think this title is a bit misleading, but more importantly not very informative/indicative of the content inside. If the OP wants me to change it, feel free to PM me.
What would you suggest?
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On July 16 2012 09:01 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 08:18 NrGmonk wrote:
I think this title is a bit misleading, but more importantly not very informative/indicative of the content inside. If the OP wants me to change it, feel free to PM me. What would you suggest?
Why not HUARG's Chargelot/Archon Mothership expand turtle PvZ style? 
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Mothership into third: the awakening of mass destruction
or Guide to flush into the perfect toilet
or Vortex, vortex everywhere!
or Archoon and Chargelots, a hellish couple
or Requiem for a Vortex
or Mothership or Mother of God!
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I was wondering, does anyone have any troubles taking a third vs roaches + overseers? It seems like you don't even have any archons at the time the third is taken. If you got to take it and put cannons up I could see it being holdable but trying to take a third off a void, a pheonix, and MS, and non-charge zealots seems like it would be really tough.
I am happy to be wrong however.
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On July 16 2012 12:55 esaul17 wrote:
I was wondering, does anyone have any troubles taking a third vs roaches + overseers? It seems like you don't even have any archons at the time the third is taken. If you got to take it and put cannons up I could see it being holdable but trying to take a third off a void, a pheonix, and MS, and non-charge zealots seems like it would be really tough.
I am happy to be wrong however.
How I normally play it, is I make the third but am perfectly happy with canceling it. The goal at this point is to go up to 8-10 gates AND a nexus. As far as I can see, it doesn't matter that much which order you do it in, it's just up to whether they let you have the third or not. While the nexus is building, all the extra gates go down, charge finishes, a void is poking around scouting, and your archons begin. If you can't keep the nexus, sac it and use the money for some more archons. Once you can deal with the army at the third (overseer sniping helps,) just take the nexus right in front of him.
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On July 16 2012 13:10 Ashent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 12:55 esaul17 wrote:
I was wondering, does anyone have any troubles taking a third vs roaches + overseers? It seems like you don't even have any archons at the time the third is taken. If you got to take it and put cannons up I could see it being holdable but trying to take a third off a void, a pheonix, and MS, and non-charge zealots seems like it would be really tough.
I am happy to be wrong however. How I normally play it, is I make the third but am perfectly happy with canceling it. The goal at this point is to go up to 8-10 gates AND a nexus. As far as I can see, it doesn't matter that much which order you do it in, it's just up to whether they let you have the third or not. While the nexus is building, all the extra gates go down, charge finishes, a void is poking around scouting, and your archons begin. If you can't keep the nexus, sac it and use the money for some more archons. Once you can deal with the army at the third (overseer sniping helps,) just take the nexus right in front of him.
So you are basically hoping to snipe the Overseers with your void + MS + Phoenix and use cloaking to push him back? Can you reliable kill all the overseers before you lose your archons? What if he brought along a couple queens for antiair?
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So you are basically hoping to snipe the Overseers with your void + MS + Phoenix and use cloaking to push him back? Can you reliable kill all the overseers before you lose your archons? What if he brought along a couple queens for antiair?
If you can't keep the third, sac it and minimize your losses while maximizing your gate and archon count. You don't need the nexus RIGHT now. You can keep oversaturating your current mineral patches, add 4 or 5 gates, and retake the third when you are able to push him out. If he overstays his welcome, it's even better for you as your 2base archon zealot with cloak is getting better and better than his force out on the map while he's doing whatever (most likely taking a 4th and starting his corruptors) at home.
That being said - how are queens at your third at 9-11 minutes? I'm unsure if that would be brilliant or special ed, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
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On July 16 2012 14:07 Ashent wrote:Show nested quote +So you are basically hoping to snipe the Overseers with your void + MS + Phoenix and use cloaking to push him back? Can you reliable kill all the overseers before you lose your archons? What if he brought along a couple queens for antiair? If you can't keep the third, sac it and minimize your losses while maximizing your gate and archon count. You don't need the nexus RIGHT now. You can keep oversaturating your current mineral patches, add 4 or 5 gates, and retake the third when you are able to push him out. If he overstays his welcome, it's even better for you as your 2base archon zealot with cloak is getting better and better than his force out on the map while he's doing whatever (most likely taking a 4th and starting his corruptors) at home. That being said - how are queens at your third at 9-11 minutes? I'm unsure if that would be brilliant or special ed, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
Well I just mean, if he just keeps a growing mass of roaches at your door keeping you on 2 base won't things just get worse and worse? Can 2 base chargelot archon really push back a roach army quickly approaching max off a 2 base economy? My concern was him just denying the third all game then overwhelming you.
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I used to do chargelot archon in pvz, and to be honest I have no idea why I stopped. It did pretty well actualy. I really like the stargate opening as well, it forces the zerg to kinda clench up which does some free 'damage'
Now that being said, I saw your game vs roach hydra which would be kinda typical of what you would see with what you show (vr, third, etc) and the zerg player played pretty bad, all of the queens were between 50-100+energy, he had 2-0 upgrades, and he clumped all of his shit together for you to vortex. As if that were not bad enough, he engaged your mothership having army twice without detection.
So I'd like to see you play it out vs a better opponent, because I'm skeptical of how it does vs roach infestor, or roach infestor bl in the right hands. I'm not saying it sucks or will get rolled, but I would like to see it against a better zerg, as there's not a ton of micro you can do with chargelot archon.
Edit: Ok, so I actually tried it in ladder, and it was roflstomp easy... I messed up horribly both games, which is sorta expected given that it's literally the first and second time I tried this build, but I still won fairly easily and as I mentioned with huge mistakes. I'll practice this and throw it in the toolbox. Also, I'm not really convinced that this build absolutely needs the mothership.
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On July 16 2012 14:26 FLiP491 wrote:Also, I'm not really convinced that this build absolutely needs the mothership.
Why not?
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trakk seems to be a really nice person
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tempted to try this out myself, but watching the replay vs roach hydra ling it just struck me like the other guy was an idiot. single evo chamber all game while getting melee and ranged units. he actively runs in to vortexs and he rallys badly upgraded lings into a defensive position with cannons and zealots.
do you have any replays vs people who dont like to run into the meat grinder so much?
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Fast Mothership into 3rd is indeed extremly solid, at least in my plat.
Using it with sky toss build, but recently having some troubles (probably because was not playing for 2 months ^^) so I'll try this build and see how it goes, thx p00n!
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I don't see why so many people dismiss this build just because it relies on the MS. I mean, every PvZ that gets to the late game relies on the MS, at the pro level. Yes vortex can be a hit and a miss, but that's a general problem, not a problem with this build at all.
Having said that, I believe this build is very solid. No it won't brake the match up or something like that, just solid, legitimate way to play PvZ.
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EPT
