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On July 17 2012 05:58 Arcanefrost wrote:
Overproducing corruptors to snipe the ms and then transitioning into roach is very possible. I don't know why you always act so incredibly rude when it's brought up, it's one of the best counters to your build and you don't even bother to discuss it. Stop being such a douche to kcdc, he's 100% right and you seem to be ridiculizing his arguments because you have no viable response to them.
Exactly this. This build has a lot of potential, but there needs to be constructive discussion about it. Being bad mannered to kcdc really isn't helping you win anyone over. Even if you disagree strongly with him, he is a person that everyone on this forum should respect, even though he isn't playing anymore 
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Good build, I will try tonight thanks and I will post my feed back after I try
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On July 17 2012 03:00 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:21 achristes wrote:On July 14 2012 05:18 Belial88 wrote:
I got another easy win for you:
- 9 Pylon, chrono only probes
- 13 Forge
- 17 3x Pylons at ramp = gg
Only way for Zerg to beat it, besides patrolling the ramp (which you can still glitch out if they are using patrol command, or if you bring 2 probes), is to 6-10 pool, in which case you either cannon your main or block the ramp, win.
win win scenario. I dont know why Toss isn't 100% on ladder.
On a side note, good guide. Seems like most of the Toss I play on ladder. They beat me too. Drone drill, toss lose ezpz. Drone drilling does not work on most spawns on most maps, and Toss can just reinforce the wall. Zerg lose ezpz... I've actually gone and tested this multiple times though. Drone drilling may break through a pylon, but it won't break through a warping in gateway behind it before the cannon finishes.
You tried using mineral patches outside your nat? When you spawn north on daybreak, you can use the closest patch on your 3rd to make the trick work, idk about other maps tho. Save camera location helps.
On July 17 2012 01:51 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:17 kcdc wrote:
I know of 3 good ways to beat this build:
(1) Stephano roach max build with good macro and roach micro. Split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots.
(2) Make some relatively early corruptors and just kill the mothership. It's not that hard to kill the mothership if you really commit to doing so, especially before it has 200 energy. Just over-produce corruptors in the early mid-game, split them up into 2-3 groups, and kill the damn thing. Roaches own zealot-archon w/o vortex support.
(3) Broodlord-infestor with very good control. The micro isn't impossibly difficult (split units into multiple groups, fungal zealots and archons, NP mothership if possible), but because Zergs rarely face this composition, they don't get a lot of practice against it. This can be reliably beaten with a normal broodlord-infestor composition, but it requires a good deal of practice that most ladder Zergs haven't put in. For a blue poster, the majority of all your arguments (not only in this thread, btw) are 'totschlag' arguments. I have no idea of the english (or even dutch) phrase, but it is basically an argument that cannot be efficiently disproved. An example would be 'it only works if you believe in it' (thus if it doesn't work you simply don't believe in it, it is still a valid method!). Many, many zergs have fallen with the broodlord/infestor combo, same goes for mass stephano roach pressure. Your argument is just 'better control, hurrrrdurrrr' which is pretty stupid. Why don't you make a [G] about TvZ where the T only and only uses marines? Marines beat everything on a cost+food equivalent base and theoretically banelings, fungal growth and ultralisk cleave damage never have to hit more than one marine. If a baneling/fungal/ultralisk hits more than one marine, it is not the strategy that is not viable, you simply need better control. I bet you'd have a lot of fun with your totschlag arguments in such a topic. Your #1 way is a very good example. 'split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots' - yes, it is feasible, but once you split your roaches I will only have to deal with one part of the split up roaches. If you get a good surround, I can throw a random vortex on your concave and I still have to deal with a small part of your army, because the rest is stuck inside the vortex. It is also for this reason why most zergs run their whole army into the vortex once a small part of it gets vortexed - the remaining forces would lose anyway. Don't forget that roaches have 4 range and are medium-sized units. You can only spread so much before you can spread no more, just like you can only go so fast until (almost) reaching the speed of light. There is a limit to it due to unit size and range. #3 is the same totschlag argument. #2 is something I see you do in pretty much every PvZ-topic, and now in this one. It is called 'talking out of your ass', fueled by a lack of understanding about zerg economy (and in this case apparently basic game sense) - you simply CANNOT do that. It is like me saying 'with this new sprinting method you will be able to beat Usain Bolt, his record time is [x] and with this you will reach [x-1]' and you replying with 'yeah, but, y'know, Usain Bolt will just run faster. It is not viable.' You. Cannot. Actually. Do. That. Is it clear?
You OK buddy?
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On July 17 2012 07:36 Lolsoup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 05:58 Arcanefrost wrote:
Overproducing corruptors to snipe the ms and then transitioning into roach is very possible. I don't know why you always act so incredibly rude when it's brought up, it's one of the best counters to your build and you don't even bother to discuss it. Stop being such a douche to kcdc, he's 100% right and you seem to be ridiculizing his arguments because you have no viable response to them. It all depends on what you mean by "overproduce". You're gonna have to make a ton of corrupters, because with vortex and archons you can't get away with making just 3-7. Corrupters also aren't free, spire takes a long time to build, and chances are you'd be better off just using it for mutalisks. If you DO decide to go for corrupters, it'll take away massively from your roach count, which leaves you vulnerable to counterattack timings and other such aggressive moves from the protoss. Mothership is obviously a big investment, but focusing your entire build around killing it is missing the point, which is that chargelot archon is hella strong, ESPECIALLY before brood lords come out. This also all relies on perfect scouting, which you can't always achieve with a void ray + phoenix running around sniping your overlords. This build is obviously not perfect, it has it's weaknesses, mutalisks seem to be a large vulnerability as well as early ling/bane timings, but corrupter/roach is the least of your worries. Regardless of these weaknesses, it is still incredibly strong and a lot of fun.
You can totally kill the mothership at ~12 or 13 minutes with a handful of corruptors. P's units that shoot up in that window total approximately 2 archons and a couple sentries. Just attack the mothership before it has 2 vortexes and a half dozen archons defending it, and it dies easy.
That said, P will rarely face this problem because Zerg doesn't often make an early spire with any significant roach count. Z would have to scout your build and deviate from their intended build to stomp yours, and since this build isn't common, there's a good chance that they won't respond well.
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On July 15 2012 22:15 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 21:58 Iatrik wrote:Entire "strategy" is just a huge troll Don't know where to start xD Ways to lose: - Neural Archons - Neural Mothership - Fungal Zealots - Broodlords with decent spread - Roach + Corruptor - Roach + Hydra + Corruptor - Muta + Banelings or to just sum it up: Everything except Ling/Muta (considering you have storm to defend) A style like that would only work, if you would: - Focus Overseers like crazy while not losing your mothership - Expand very aggressive, so you can be cost inefficent and/or have a lot of gas for storms/archons - Not open FFE, be aggresive from the start and put pressure at deny expansions like a boss If you still win with your strat, that means: - Your opponent is just bad. According to previous posts, you are 'TdgAisora'. 1v1 platinum with very little games. http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2111475/TdgAisoraPlease go.
Very few games.
2 base mothership. Hm. I just might roll protoss and see if I can pull this off.
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Yes it is indeed very few games, my bad.
On-topic: I think that most losses to bl/inf with this are due to attacking into spines and not having enough infrastructure up. I present to you two examples - one game where I got beaten very badly by broodlord/infestor/spines, and one where the opponent tried to do the same thing but failed.
In this replay, I lose:
http://replayfu.com/download/jH6TNc
I did not make any major mistakes, even in the engagement - my mothership was lagging behind so I was late with my vortex which allowed him to get some few key fungals off, but nonetheless I got rolled pretty hard.
The key here would be to add more infrastructure and bases and simply camp the zerg out, while setting everything up. The zerg will naturally be ahead in setting up infrastructure (spines/spores, creep, etc.) due to your passivity. If you set up stargates and chrono out air weapons/armor from double c-core, while adding bases and a shit ton of gateways, you should be able to win fairly easily.
Here is an example, where my opponent tried to do exactly the same stuff as the guy in the shakuras game tried to do. He also rushes for a lot of corruptors and tries to snipe my mothership. As you will see, it fails miserably.
http://replayfu.com/download/JPM3Fm
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Now shakuras plateau is much easier to spine up, so what we need is a work-around. I ran into this problem before and then solved it by playing it slow (which I did not do in the shakuras game attached in this post). Something that seems like a good idea, would be to sneak my mothership into his main (not at all impossible given that you can clear overlords and that the map is pretty small). Then I could mass recall all my units and still have enough energy left for a vortex (or another mass recall).
Due to his high brood lord count, he will not be able to push too fast, as I will have cannons and he will have very little ground forces.
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On July 17 2012 01:51 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:17 kcdc wrote:
I know of 3 good ways to beat this build:
(1) Stephano roach max build with good macro and roach micro. Split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots.
(2) Make some relatively early corruptors and just kill the mothership. It's not that hard to kill the mothership if you really commit to doing so, especially before it has 200 energy. Just over-produce corruptors in the early mid-game, split them up into 2-3 groups, and kill the damn thing. Roaches own zealot-archon w/o vortex support.
(3) Broodlord-infestor with very good control. The micro isn't impossibly difficult (split units into multiple groups, fungal zealots and archons, NP mothership if possible), but because Zergs rarely face this composition, they don't get a lot of practice against it. This can be reliably beaten with a normal broodlord-infestor composition, but it requires a good deal of practice that most ladder Zergs haven't put in. For a blue poster, the majority of all your arguments (not only in this thread, btw) are 'totschlag' arguments. I have no idea of the english (or even dutch) phrase, but it is basically an argument that cannot be efficiently disproved. An example would be 'it only works if you believe in it' (thus if it doesn't work you simply don't believe in it, it is still a valid method!). Many, many zergs have fallen with the broodlord/infestor combo, same goes for mass stephano roach pressure. Your argument is just 'better control, hurrrrdurrrr' which is pretty stupid. Why don't you make a [G] about TvZ where the T only and only uses marines? Marines beat everything on a cost+food equivalent base and theoretically banelings, fungal growth and ultralisk cleave damage never have to hit more than one marine. If a baneling/fungal/ultralisk hits more than one marine, it is not the strategy that is not viable, you simply need better control. I bet you'd have a lot of fun with your totschlag arguments in such a topic. Your #1 way is a very good example. 'split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots' - yes, it is feasible, but once you split your roaches I will only have to deal with one part of the split up roaches. If you get a good surround, I can throw a random vortex on your concave and I still have to deal with a small part of your army, because the rest is stuck inside the vortex. It is also for this reason why most zergs run their whole army into the vortex once a small part of it gets vortexed - the remaining forces would lose anyway. Don't forget that roaches have 4 range and are medium-sized units. You can only spread so much before you can spread no more, just like you can only go so fast until (almost) reaching the speed of light. There is a limit to it due to unit size and range. #3 is the same totschlag argument. #2 is something I see you do in pretty much every PvZ-topic, and now in this one. It is called 'talking out of your ass', fueled by a lack of understanding about zerg economy (and in this case apparently basic game sense) - you simply CANNOT do that. It is like me saying 'with this new sprinting method you will be able to beat Usain Bolt, his record time is [x] and with this you will reach [x-1]' and you replying with 'yeah, but, y'know, Usain Bolt will just run faster. It is not viable.' You. Cannot. Actually. Do. That. Is it clear?
Thank you so much for posting this build and trying to help struggling Protosses. Looks strong as hell to me after watching all of the replays and I am going to implement it into my own play. I'm sorry that you have to deal with so many people like this, (though I greatly respect KCDC I don't think he made a good argument in terms of the corruptors) but please don't let it discourage you from the innovation process. There are many of us who appreciate it. And, you're probably the most hilarious poster on these boards. Every single one of your posts makes me laugh my ass off.
Keep it up, we need more Protosses like you.
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On July 17 2012 09:35 Borkbokbork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:51 the p00n wrote:On July 17 2012 01:17 kcdc wrote:
I know of 3 good ways to beat this build:
(1) Stephano roach max build with good macro and roach micro. Split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots.
(2) Make some relatively early corruptors and just kill the mothership. It's not that hard to kill the mothership if you really commit to doing so, especially before it has 200 energy. Just over-produce corruptors in the early mid-game, split them up into 2-3 groups, and kill the damn thing. Roaches own zealot-archon w/o vortex support.
(3) Broodlord-infestor with very good control. The micro isn't impossibly difficult (split units into multiple groups, fungal zealots and archons, NP mothership if possible), but because Zergs rarely face this composition, they don't get a lot of practice against it. This can be reliably beaten with a normal broodlord-infestor composition, but it requires a good deal of practice that most ladder Zergs haven't put in. For a blue poster, the majority of all your arguments (not only in this thread, btw) are 'totschlag' arguments. I have no idea of the english (or even dutch) phrase, but it is basically an argument that cannot be efficiently disproved. An example would be 'it only works if you believe in it' (thus if it doesn't work you simply don't believe in it, it is still a valid method!). Many, many zergs have fallen with the broodlord/infestor combo, same goes for mass stephano roach pressure. Your argument is just 'better control, hurrrrdurrrr' which is pretty stupid. Why don't you make a [G] about TvZ where the T only and only uses marines? Marines beat everything on a cost+food equivalent base and theoretically banelings, fungal growth and ultralisk cleave damage never have to hit more than one marine. If a baneling/fungal/ultralisk hits more than one marine, it is not the strategy that is not viable, you simply need better control. I bet you'd have a lot of fun with your totschlag arguments in such a topic. Your #1 way is a very good example. 'split the roaches so they don't all get vortexed and kite the zealots' - yes, it is feasible, but once you split your roaches I will only have to deal with one part of the split up roaches. If you get a good surround, I can throw a random vortex on your concave and I still have to deal with a small part of your army, because the rest is stuck inside the vortex. It is also for this reason why most zergs run their whole army into the vortex once a small part of it gets vortexed - the remaining forces would lose anyway. Don't forget that roaches have 4 range and are medium-sized units. You can only spread so much before you can spread no more, just like you can only go so fast until (almost) reaching the speed of light. There is a limit to it due to unit size and range. #3 is the same totschlag argument. #2 is something I see you do in pretty much every PvZ-topic, and now in this one. It is called 'talking out of your ass', fueled by a lack of understanding about zerg economy (and in this case apparently basic game sense) - you simply CANNOT do that. It is like me saying 'with this new sprinting method you will be able to beat Usain Bolt, his record time is [x] and with this you will reach [x-1]' and you replying with 'yeah, but, y'know, Usain Bolt will just run faster. It is not viable.' You. Cannot. Actually. Do. That. Is it clear? Thank you so much for posting this build and trying to help struggling Protosses. Looks strong as hell to me after watching all of the replays and I am going to implement it into my own play. I'm sorry that you have to deal with so many people like this, but please don't let it discourage you from the innovation process. There are many of us who appreciate it. And, you're probably the most hilarious poster on these boards. Every single one of your posts makes me laugh my ass off. Keep it up, we need more Protosses like you.
I love you too bro. I don't think that the majority of the posters are trying to hate on the build just for the sake of hating on it, I think most of them have legitimate concerns but are simply misinformed.
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Taking a third is impossible. With that build any 13 minute/14 minute maxed zerg army can be knocking at your 3rd, There are realistically 2 ways to secure a 3rd, and that is with a high sentry count (which if you rush out a fleet beacon you won't have) and stalkers. Or a more delayed 3rd with collosi. making only archons is also not too good of an idea. Archons are real cute but you only need maybe 10 at most for vortexes. Protoss has to break down spine crawler walls and the composition you have suggested most likely will not do the job. Any good zerg player would deny your third and take every other base on the map. Smart protosses need to account for a zerg tech. The zerg may make a small baneling ball aswell. when your opponent is going archon zealot I see no reason not too. Even if you win your initial engagement the zerg will just remax and crush you. Also I am a diamond level zerg and I do know what I am talking about, and frankly the points you made gave you no right to be elitist.
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On July 17 2012 09:52 Veloh15 wrote:
Taking a third is impossible. With that build any 13 minute/14 minute maxed zerg army can be knocking at your 3rd, There are realistically 2 ways to secure a 3rd, and that is with a high sentry count (which if you rush out a fleet beacon you won't have) and stalkers. Or a more delayed 3rd with collosi. making only archons is also not too good of an idea. Archons are real cute but you only need maybe 10 at most for vortexes. Protoss has to break down spine crawler walls and the composition you have suggested most likely will not do the job. Any good zerg player would deny your third and take every other base on the map. Smart protosses need to account for a zerg tech. The zerg may make a small baneling ball aswell. when your opponent is going archon zealot I see no reason not too. Even if you win your initial engagement the zerg will just remax and crush you. Also I am a diamond level zerg and I do know what I am talking about, and frankly the points you made gave you no right to be elitist.
I have taken thirds many, many times against players far above your skill level. Apparently it is not so impossible?
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Well what does Stephano do against this?
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wow i really like this post. I respected Kcdc too, but i think that their arguments were kind of reckless this time. Im trying this build in all my pvz at this time, but i have timming problems sometimes, i think the fastest u have the third (with your mothership is amazingly easy to defend in many maps), u get the better edge to win the game. I really believe that are better army compositions to especific zerg builds, i think that more replays and more good players trying this would be a good start to improve the build, but just blindly criticism its not a nice nor intelligent way to go.
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On July 17 2012 08:58 the p00n wrote:Yes it is indeed very few games, my bad. On-topic: I think that most losses to bl/inf with this are due to attacking into spines and not having enough infrastructure up. I present to you two examples - one game where I got beaten very badly by broodlord/infestor/spines, and one where the opponent tried to do the same thing but failed. In this replay, I lose: http://replayfu.com/download/jH6TNcI did not make any major mistakes, even in the engagement - my mothership was lagging behind so I was late with my vortex which allowed him to get some few key fungals off, but nonetheless I got rolled pretty hard. The key here would be to add more infrastructure and bases and simply camp the zerg out, while setting everything up. The zerg will naturally be ahead in setting up infrastructure (spines/spores, creep, etc.) due to your passivity. If you set up stargates and chrono out air weapons/armor from double c-core, while adding bases and a shit ton of gateways, you should be able to win fairly easily.
I watched the Shakuras Replay and I thought that there were a couple of potential improvements to your play.
I think that you should have done a lot more warp prism play, and it should have been sooner. Instead of dropping after throwing your army away, you could have gone expo-hunting earlier. A Warp Prism is a mineral sink that takes the supply space of one zealot, so you can afford to have 3-4 of them on the map at a time. Dropping Zealots in each base at once, threatening further warp-ins, is a great way to fight that immobile broodlord army. If you leave the Archons and Mothership in a defensive poture, ready to toilet the Zerg army if it moves out, you're pretty safe. Instead of attacking into siege units stacked on top of base defense with caster support, go attack where your opponent is weak. You already have the chargelot infrastructure; might as well go do damage with them.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with a mass recall, but another option is to use blink stalkers with a spotting air unit (obs/prism/leftover phoenix) to go harass bases. I like the chargelot/archon composition, but if you want some more mobile harassment ability you can make a group of stalkers to go out and do some damage peripheral to the main armies. You already have the upgrades and gateway infrastructure to use them, so it's a very simple addition to the endgame. Something I personally like for Shakuras is building ~8 stalkers from a flipped Prism at a remote expo, forcing the opponent to bring defensive units to chase them, then blinking away. You just have to keep an eye out for infestors before escaping.
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On July 17 2012 07:52 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 07:36 Lolsoup wrote:On July 17 2012 05:58 Arcanefrost wrote:
Overproducing corruptors to snipe the ms and then transitioning into roach is very possible. I don't know why you always act so incredibly rude when it's brought up, it's one of the best counters to your build and you don't even bother to discuss it. Stop being such a douche to kcdc, he's 100% right and you seem to be ridiculizing his arguments because you have no viable response to them. It all depends on what you mean by "overproduce". You're gonna have to make a ton of corrupters, because with vortex and archons you can't get away with making just 3-7. Corrupters also aren't free, spire takes a long time to build, and chances are you'd be better off just using it for mutalisks. If you DO decide to go for corrupters, it'll take away massively from your roach count, which leaves you vulnerable to counterattack timings and other such aggressive moves from the protoss. Mothership is obviously a big investment, but focusing your entire build around killing it is missing the point, which is that chargelot archon is hella strong, ESPECIALLY before brood lords come out. This also all relies on perfect scouting, which you can't always achieve with a void ray + phoenix running around sniping your overlords. This build is obviously not perfect, it has it's weaknesses, mutalisks seem to be a large vulnerability as well as early ling/bane timings, but corrupter/roach is the least of your worries. Regardless of these weaknesses, it is still incredibly strong and a lot of fun. You can totally kill the mothership at ~12 or 13 minutes with a handful of corruptors. P's units that shoot up in that window total approximately 2 archons and a couple sentries. Just attack the mothership before it has 2 vortexes and a half dozen archons defending it, and it dies easy. That said, P will rarely face this problem because Zerg doesn't often make an early spire with any significant roach count. Z would have to scout your build and deviate from their intended build to stomp yours, and since this build isn't common, there's a good chance that they won't respond well.
This is the first time I've read this thread, but interestingly enough I went for a similar counter you're describing, although I didn't make a lot of roaches since I scouted the stargate (I'm not a big roach player). Did go for some minor ineffective muta harass as well. Obviously strategy not executed as well as described in OP (high masters) but still might be a nice replay to watch.
http://drop.sc/223160
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I have a question, for kcdc or anyone who can answer this really, how do you kite this? or rather, why would protoss not make sure to micro back against kiting.
the way i read it, though i could be wrong, is that you just fortify the third, make it a position that the midgame zerg ground army will just wash over like water on rocks. The roach max, to my understanding is meant to snipe the third as it finishes, however by that time the mother ship as well as the army/sim city w/cannons should be up.
I get what you mean by kiting, but what i don't get is why the protoss wouldn't just stick near his wall/cannons, since the idea is to turtle off 3 bases until max, he has no reason to leave and should micro back his units to the wall. you attempting to kite only gives him time for WG's to come back off CD, he should easily reinforce his way out of it, by my thinking anyway. he's only attempting to defend a position until he can push out, he has no reason, and in fact, it would be a bad decision, to move out before then.
for example on his game with the roach hydra timing on his third, he's down 80 supply when the attack hits at 12 minutes which is slightly slower than a perfectly executed stephano style, yet he stays in range of his cannons and continually reinforces off his 10 gates, and that's with losing the MS, he keeps the MS alive zerg should do almost no damage. as it is, he loses every probe at the third, but he still holds the third base.
so again, why would protoss allow his units to chase, when all he needs to do is stay near his cannons and continually reinforce of 8-10 gates.
im not attempting to say it can't be done, im just asking clarification on it, please help my lowbieness understand.
Edit: spaced the paragraphs out a bit so your eyes don't bleed
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this build is so freaking easy to execute and so fun ! im diamond and i was playing on my bed 40-50 APM maximum ! it was pure ownage !
Thanks its so cool for casual gamers 
I guess it wont work vs pro gamer as they can split and micro their units but... IT'S SO FREAKING AWESOME ANYWAY!!!
i heard people telling its easy to counter with corruptors at 12 min before mass archons reached but the principle of early stargate is to pressure and deny scouting from zerg right? so how could he be aware ur on this strat before its too late? (if u hide a little bit mothership )
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It seems to me that this build is just beating the metagame. By hiding the fleet beacon, denying scouting with the void ray and then win because the Zerg does not react properly. This build then wins because the opponent makes mistakes and not because of superior skill.
You more or less say this in the title though, just wanted to point it out..
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On July 17 2012 17:44 sjurjh wrote:
It seems to me that this build is just beating the metagame. By hiding the fleet beacon, denying scouting with the void ray and then win because the Zerg does not react properly. This build then wins because the opponent makes mistakes and not because of superior skill.
You more or less say this in the title though, just wanted to point it out..
Well given how good this build hides the scout, you are put in a favourable position. But in any case, all builds get figured out - but the question is - at what cost?
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An interesting thing is that if the fleet beacon isn't scouted, this totally looks like a stargate void/phoenix and 7 gates pressure +1 attack build.
That alone should make the Zerg cautious about dropping an early spire for corruptors instead of preparing with roaches..
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An interesting thing is that if the fleet beacon isn't scouted, this totally looks like a stargate void/phoenix and 7 gates pressure +1 attack build.
That alone should make the Zerg cautious about dropping an early spire for corruptors instead of preparing with roaches..
I totally agree with that ! the strenght of this build is that it may be seen as the standard play while opening stargate after FFE ! (7 gate +1 allin)
Maybe in one or two month this build will be overplayed and z will make decision to prepare countering this build rather than fear 7 gate allin or they will spend more ressources on scouting !
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EPT
