[G] Storkmans 3cc Fast tank TvZ - Page 4

On July 17 2012 00:51 storkman wrote:The point is how do you put on aggression on a competent zerg, you really don't have to overcommit to the tank portion of this build, you can make the two then transition into medivacs,ups,and more racks. These two tanks I feel can play a huge role in defensive infrastructure for us terran players because whenever I play bio and I lose a major engagement next thing i know there is a billion lings/banes running at me so these 2 hefty tanks with good walls can actually help you all throughout the game just a thought though still haven't been able to even look at starcraft

On July 17 2012 10:51 Shoebawka47 wrote:
Other greed builds dont just die to a ling bane roach all in , If you micro well , you can hold it with hellions and a few marauders with nice bunker placement. After that its an auto win . Its hard to learn and can be frustrating , but the only way to be good at tvz is put the burden of micro on your shoulders and believe you can hold an all in if it comes , also , sending in a sacrifical hellion is a good way to see if its coming (Third base, obviously a worse version of the all in , should be holdable ) I take any amount of lings above 10-12 as an all in before 6.00).

IdrA may say that its a good idea to out greed the zerg, but he's wrong. That never will work , and its a really silly idea. Zerg has the super army. You can't stay passive . Listening to IdrA on SOTG was completly wrong , people give this guy too much respect. People have tried to out greed zerg alot , it never works , and the later the game goes on the harder your micro gets.

I don't see why gaz first mean auto dies sorry

the reason alot of people do banshee is because banshees can both defend and apply pressure, tanks cannot. I used to do a build like this, if the zerg allins or attacks you get ahead, if he goes for quick 4 bases you autolose unless he messes up. This build was alot better in the old metagame where zerg took 3th at 7-8 minutes, but a reaction to this would be hatch pool hatch and have 3 saturated bases at around 9-10 minutes. where he can then take a 4th and and start hive while you are struggling to get up your infrastructure enough to support 3 base economy and max out.
Also this will delay upgrades quite a bit for bio unless you get ebays right after third, which will delay rax a bit.

On July 17 2012 14:53 BoggieMan wrote:
the reason alot of people do banshee is because banshees can both defend and apply pressure, tanks cannot. I used to do a build like this, if the zerg allins or attacks you get ahead, if he goes for quick 4 bases you autolose unless he messes up. This build was alot better in the old metagame where zerg took 3th at 7-8 minutes, but a reaction to this would be hatch pool hatch and have 3 saturated bases at around 9-10 minutes. where he can then take a 4th and and start hive while you are struggling to get up your infrastructure enough to support 3 base economy and max out.
Also this will delay upgrades quite a bit for bio unless you get ebays right after third, which will delay rax a bit.

You're thinking incorrectly - it's a different kind of pressure that Banshees apply. The point of applying pressure as Terran in the early game is to force your opponent to make units instead of drones. If you're using banshees, it has a different effect - you force them to pull their queens from creeping, and maybe drop 1 spore at each base, but they don't need to use larvae on anything else. When I played zerg, anytime I saw Banshees coming, I just reminded myself, "The counter to Banshees is queens and drones," and I mashed down the D key while microing queens. When you see fast banshees, you know that the most you'll see coming at you is marines in the early game, and those can be dealt with when you see them moving out - basically, a zerg can drone up unafraid if he sees fast banshee, and just be careful with his queens.

On July 18 2012 13:38 storkman wrote:


Yes banshee can both defend and apply pressure but for defensive purposes they really aren't that strong, 2 shots to kill 1 ling 4-8 for one roach. By the time your banshee kills his units your whole base will be dead.

On July 19 2012 18:08 dohgg wrote:




Rushing into fast tanks, can be a great defensive build, but will let the zerg do w/e he wants, in terms of economy and expanding wide. a good zerg will even do a double FE before pool vs your build.

I would like your opinion on how the uber creep your letting the Z have screws your 2-2 timing, because thats my everyday problem with marine tank passive play. I actually switched out of this style because of how frequent before 6 mins 3rds are from the Z, thus makling early tanks uselss. I have also found that 4 rax 2 with tech lab and 2 with reactor is enough to hold any Z all in with proper sim city and micro. FYI I mainly play full bio or full mech nowadays.

great work stork. ive been struggling with zerg lately. the build is great. fend off early pushes and equal on eco with solid 22 timing. it still feel a lil shaky when pushing out though, but thanks

The banshee job isnt to deal with roaches or lings, but to deal with banlings, a good FE->Hellions->banshee build, will get a banshee around 7:20 - which will be in time to defend vs roach bane allins which will hit around 8:30-9:00.

Hellions can defelect lings with good micro in choke points, and roaches can be dealt with repaired bunker.

Rushing into fast tanks, can be a great defensive build, but will let the zerg do w/e he wants, in terms of economy and expanding wide. a good zerg will even do a double FE before pool vs your build

On July 20 2012 00:33 storkman wrote:

Going reactor hellion/banshee allows zergs to do whatever they want... 6 queen build kills both of these pretty handly, all banshees do is force drones. And no zerg will go double FE before pool thats suicide

Oh, and i guess by your opinion going for fast tanks? forces zerg to do what? to not do w/e they want?

I am sorry, and i dont wanna be rude, your guide is really nice and all but you and many other terrans thought they figured out the game by playing "greedy" and also "safe".

And i m sorry, theres no such thing as both greedy and safe vs zerg, tvz right now is coin flip, if you played "safe" and he deiceded to allin you, you won that coin flip, but if you played that safe and "greedy" style, the zerg will always have the abilty to outgreed you, i gave the example of double FE before pool just as an example of how greedy zergs can be when they scout terran going into turtle mode, it can also be a standard FE->pool->3rd (on 4 min).

Right now, the metgame of TvZ is kinda harsh for terran, because that coin-flip is basically decided by how the zerg wish to play it, and going greediest he can behind massing queens is probbaly the best way for him.

So terrans have 2 legitamate option behind 3cc styles, you can do these with:
1. FE->hellions-> banshee , as they are filling both aggresive and defensive jobs.
2. Fe-> walling behind raxs into a MMMs pushes. as Raxs are both good for heavy defensive walls and offensive production structures.

Unfourtnley, FE->tanks, doesnt give you any kind of offensive options - u said banshee and hellions will make a zerg laugh and drone, i say fast tanks will make him rofl and drone heavier, behind 3 hatchs on 4 min.

This is actually very similar to a build i've been doing against zerg for a while. I do the marine tank one, with only a few small differences in build order.

It is great for dealing with busts, as long as you position things well. If he fails a bust, you've got a great advantage.

But as the guy above me said, if he doesn't all-in you and goes heavy macro, I find that I just can't keep up in macro with the zerg.

Which is why I've tried several variations of this build such as getting a starport before double engi bays, and going for banshee harass, or a second factory for hellion harassment.

But zergs can deal with harassment so effortlessly (you have to be lucky to get hellions into the mineral line, and almost all zergs get detection before you can get cloaked banshees).

Now I tend to do more 2base heavy plays, because although your still rolling the dice a bit, at least you don't have to deal with 15 infestors and brood lords.

Note: I found the 3cc marine tank build to be far more effective before the queen/overlord buffs. This is probably just because zergs are more focused on droning up (or the opposite and doing heavy all ins)

Hi there,

Thanks for making this great guide. Always enjoy reading your guides =)
i agreed that the hellion opening is pretty non optimal nowadays but i'm debating myself whether i should go for an opening with an ability to deny zerg third (like relatively bio heavy one) or just out greed zerg with 3 CC like this build.

After watching Polt VS CoCa yesterday, i started questioning myself if out greed zerg is even an option or not.
[2012 GSTL Season 2] Play off, Ro4, Match2 - TSL.Millenium vs SlayerS_EG
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67622/?set=5&lang=


Polt went third CC plus double ebay without producing his first tank until 8:30. he finished +2 2 on his bio by 12:40. he was extremely greedy on his econ. he basically only had his 6 hellions and a few marines for first 10mins. he pushed shortly after his 2-2 is done and he has to push back the entire creep. Zerg got 4 bases by then and he went infestors into corrupters. managed to deny polt by seiging a few times. by the time polt arrived zerg's base corrupters were out. Game went on 15more mins but Polt got rofled at the end.

would like to see what you guys think about this and what mistakes Polt made so this greedy build didn't work out.