[G] Storkmans 3cc Fast tank TvZ - Page 3

On June 14 2012 06:46 Jesushooves wrote:

It isn't retarded to make a valid point, there are way too many threads where people are naming builds after themselves when they didn't make anything new.

Nice guide, though I don't like anything that relies too heavily on Siege Tanks or Marines without some Marauders anymore because you have to leapfrog extremely well and extremely quickly, or risk getting caught unsieged, or take too long and get killed by 7 Broodlords or even 3-5 Ultralisks with Zergling/Infestor support, as Marines are extremely weak against them as fully upgraded Ultralisks take 1 damage from +2 Marines, and I believe that there are some builds out there that get 3-3 by 15 minutes, if I'm not mistaken.

How do you deal with these fast hive+Ultralisk/Infestor/Zergling double evo strategies?

Is this build still working pretty well for you storkman?

Dude amazing guide. I definitely am going to try this on ladder. As for all the people whining about the name: Shut up. Thank you.

How does this build deal with infestors? And if my opponent goes for ultras should I be making marauders or just more tanks? Thanks for the amazing guide ill try it out

This is the build LastShadow did in Red Bull Battlegrounds, is it not?

If Zerg scouted or knew you were doing this build, though, wouldn't it be pretty easy for them to soar ahead in macro knowing you can't execute early-midgame pressure? I know you get a fast 3rd CC, but theoretically Zerg could fully saturate 3 bases with a 4th base on the way before producing a single unit.

do a build that if I read your bo right, is pretty much an identical open. 1rax expo with expo before 2nd depot into double gas, reactor on rax, tanks immediately, 3rd oc sometime around this (reactor means you bank some minerals), and then double upgrades. I also put a bunker behind the mineral line at the Zergs 3rd with my first few marines (clear tower -> head to natural -> retreat to bunker at 3rd) since I don't do any pressure.

Whenever the Zerg doesn't allin me though I just die to their econ (when they allin me it's perfect). Ling/infestor/ultra is really the hardest for me because it comes out in time to easily destroy my 2/2 1/0 push (having to push through creep and go slowly). Vs broods I can take a 4th and drop everywhere cause it's so slow. Even with their delayed 3rd (if they're smart, they just expand to their 4th early really), I can't keep up. I'm low masters-NA as a reference.

Although my micro isn't the best and I literally have 1fps in any battle after the 5 minute mark so that might contribute to why I lose.

Just my experiences, just read your build for the first time today.

Also, I was reminded about this build when I saw IdrA vs the terran in his group in Homestory cup (Terran went CC first into tanks into 3rd). Naturally, IdrA completely rolled him, and right now IdrA isn't really a autowin vs anyone (although he was probably favored, I can't argue that).

What I've been meaning to do is if my scouting SCV doesn't see the Zerg take gas, to go hellions, and if I do, to build tanks. The hellions (with a bunker at 3rd) can kill tons of lings. But I don't ladder much so I've not faced a Zerg in a while that didn't take an early gas. This is a pretty crude indicator (if they double gas after SCV leaves or something) but I think it's better then blindly going tanks.

Although ironically vs a Julyzerg bling bust (build natural, take gas, no queen, super fast banelings), you probably want hellions instead of tanks because they come out quicker. But I've never faced that so idk really.

On July 07 2012 09:16 TangSC wrote:
Sorry that I don't have the replay handy, but I definitely like this build - Gretorp shut down my roach/ling/baneling build twice with a similar fast 3cc/tank style.

If Zerg scouted or knew you were doing this build, though, wouldn't it be pretty easy for them to soar ahead in macro knowing you can't execute early-midgame pressure? I know you get a fast 3rd CC, but theoretically Zerg could fully saturate 3 bases with a 4th base on the way before producing a single unit.

this. and ive tried something along these lines quite a few times before. but once he came into tank range instead of suiciding everything he just turned back with his roach bane ling and made drones instead and got his third and infestors. i mean its good for getting your third but it forces you to play defensive rest of the game i think. hard to make any aggressive pushes once he gets set up.

On July 15 2012 01:39 Shoebawka47 wrote:
Storkman:

The Three games you played where the opponent's didn't bust, The zergs played extreamly bad, I mean
First off: your supply was higher then them the entire game, thats no because of the 3rd CC, even when you do this build the zerg should still be ahead.
In the game vs ErrorBM Your 2/2 push hit at like 1530 and just stoped at the center of the map , until unupgraded ultras took it out.
In the game vs pBGz its not even relevent , this guy is platnium , playing in masters because he's zerg. (I'm really not being a douche, if people would watch the game they would see this)
In the game vs Zinger- The guy was so low on supply the entire game, and then attacks into your seiged up position, and your 2/2 push was non existant.

The thing is , yes your build holds off the early busts, and then wins because early bust builds are pretty all in . But I really don't think seige tanks are the answer to TvZ . If a zerg doesnt busts and macros well , your 2/2 push will be crushed, your can't play this passively. Sure it will work sometimes when the zerg doesnt play that great, but when ever i use this extreamly passive style the 2/2 push just gets halted by creep , and eventually his hive tech comes out and cleans it up. With no infastructure for the hive timing, its really just not the answer at the moment.

You give up all you aggression when you get your tanks playing passivily against a race that has larva inject and insane production , will never make sense. I've seen amazing players play greeder then this but it doesn't work. If you sit back until 1530 . They should have hive, and they should be morphing their brood lords, or making Ultras. No amount of micro matters when you have marine tank vs hive tech.

Look what happened agains errorBm- the guy pushed UP A RAMP , with 2/2 on his ultra (No plateing), into your seiged position. Your a good player, the build has its flaws and I wouldn't recommend it.

Storkman:

The Three games you played where the opponent's didn't bust, The zergs played extreamly bad, I mean
First off: your supply was higher then them the entire game, thats no because of the 3rd CC, even when you do this build the zerg should still be ahead.
In the game vs ErrorBM Your 2/2 push hit at like 1530 and just stoped at the center of the map , until unupgraded ultras took it out.
In the game vs pBGz its not even relevent , this guy is platnium , playing in masters because he's zerg. (I'm really not being a douche, if people would watch the game they would see this)
In the game vs Zinger- The guy was so low on supply the entire game, and then attacks into your seiged up position, and your 2/2 push was non existant.

The thing is , yes your build holds off the early busts, and then wins because early bust builds are pretty all in . But I really don't think seige tanks are the answer to TvZ . If a zerg doesnt busts and macros well , your 2/2 push will be crushed, your can't play this passively. Sure it will work sometimes when the zerg doesnt play that great, but when ever i use this extreamly passive style the 2/2 push just gets halted by creep , and eventually his hive tech comes out and cleans it up. With no infastructure for the hive timing, its really just not the answer at the moment.

You give up all you aggression when you get your tanks playing passivily against a race that has larva inject and insane production , will never make sense. I've seen amazing players play greeder then this but it doesn't work. If you sit back until 1530 . They should have hive, and they should be morphing their brood lords, or making Ultras. No amount of micro matters when you have marine tank vs hive tech.

Look what happened agains errorBm- the guy pushed UP A RAMP , with 2/2 on his ultra (No plateing), into your seiged position. Your a good player, the build has its flaws and I wouldn't recommend it.

I have been practicing this build multiple times against the AI to get a feeling about it,and then started to use it on ladder.

I am a top 8 platinum player and for me this just not seem to be working. Most of the time the zerg will bust through me with roach, ling, bling, and at that time you have 10 marines and a tank, which doesn't seem to hold it. I have been playing this build 10 times on ladder, and have not made it to midgame due to busts. I think you power too much stuff, and sacrifing too much for this one tank. I would not recommend it at least at my level of play.

I definitely agree with most of this post - I don't think zero aggression until lategame should ever work as a competent zerg. But I like the idea of this build - as Idra mentioned, one of the answers to the 6-queen build is to out-greed your opponent, and the problem with this approach is that it dies to the roach-baneling bust, which has only started to work since Terrans stopped making tanks. I definitely think bio is the better way to play standard (ling-infestor) TvZ - it's more robust, and you can trade well, and snipe well, but as Sheth mentioned a LONG time ago on his stream, the bust only works if Terran doesn't make a single tank. So without GOING tanks, I feel like the answer lies somewhere in making a couple of tanks, and the trick is how to do this without putting your upgrades / tech behind too far. I haven't quite worked that part out yet.

In the current meta i would not see me go straight into tank, you need to put pressure on the zerg and hellion/banshee is the best answer if transitioning to standard marine/tank. ( and with good simcity you can actually hold zerg busts )

Bio is also here, it requires more skill overall but it definitely works.